I am actually talking directly with Julesy on the issue. It may be a misunderstanding of how a product works issue, but it also might give me an idea of where other users might encounter a problem or misunderstand a feature.
posted on September 20, 2000 02:15:55 PM
That's great to hear Julesy, and I hope it all works out for you.
And just for the record, I understand that Damon doesn't have any control over these matters. I'm sure the past week has been a nightmare for PP's main PR man.
posted on September 20, 2000 08:11:20 PM
I too would really like to hear the rest of the story on this one!!! It is key to PayPal's credibility, security and customer service. -Rosalinda
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posted on September 21, 2000 06:07:35 AM
The thread begins, Serious PayPal Problem and the facts as
stated certainly indicate that. But what is the resolution?
posted on September 21, 2000 09:10:13 AM
Hi HJW --
I don't know how much of a resolution there can be, as we are at an impasse one one of my core concerns; the fact that my debit card was removed from my account.
He insists this was done by me. I never did this, and in fact I was still debiting subsequent purchases from my personal checking account check register up until this happened last week.
Still no word on the 'auto-debit' thing, though maybe that is a banking issue that he has to look into.
Some of what we have been talking about, concerning payments and how they are processed would be better explained by him.
posted on September 21, 2000 10:57:56 AM
Hi Julesy,
We also checked your issue through engineering. We showed the card being (after you logged into the account) removed and an additional card being added, which only happens by user interaction. I honestly think that you chose the wrong item when going under the profile.
I have the login, the removal and the addition times all in the activity log.
posted on September 21, 2000 02:53:29 PM
Yes, Damon, I know what your log "show's."
It didn't happen though. I never removed the debit card from my payment options. If I had, I think I would know it, and I don't think I would have debited those amounts from my checkbook register.
What I find strange is that you refuse to even entertain that an error or glitch occurred on your end, and instead paint it as a misunderstanding on my part. I find it very, very plausible that perhaps the debit card came off when I added the second credit card, through a glitch in the system.
If I wanted to be a real pain in the ass, I could accuse Paypal of adjusting the logs, after removing the debit card on their end, *after* I made the original complaint concerning the "auto-debit" coming out of the wrong account.
But I am not that narrow-minded. Too bad Paypal is.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:03:25 PM
Hi Julesy,
Without turning this into a flame war, all of the discussions we had, in addition to what the records show about log in times and actions taken against the account, this is not a system error. I think it was a misunderstanding about the menu choices and what would happen using a specific option.
Due to our conversation, I brought the concerns up, as some users may be confusing their debit card (used as a credit card) versus paying with a bank account.Users would associate paying from a bank account with a debit card when they are different items (functionally) within our system.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:14:19 PM
Right, Damon, it was all a "misunderstanding" on my part, so much so that I even kept debiting the amounts from my checkbook register. My dog must have removed the debit card.
The Paypal system is obviously too perfect to make an error.
I will stick with lowly Billpoint; where "misunderstandings" never, ever occur.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:17:54 PM
Hi Julesy,
I am not stating that nothing could have happened. What I have stated is what the records indicate with login times and actions on the account that you specified and that the probability is fairly close to zero.
We engaged in a back and forth conversation via email that was very descriptive in nature and explained quite a bit.I also asked very specific questions that drew the conclusion that this was , with no offense intended, a user error. The login times and the activity suggest as so, as well as your description of how your account was impacted.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:25:11 PM
Hi Julesy,
I would also like to state that I think I can see where to confusion would lie and I am not pointing to your case as saying that you were wrong (as I wasn't there when you logged in) and I am not accusing you of not being trustworthy.
Due to your case, I am recommending some changes to product to make this more clear and I hope you realize that.
Believe me, I have nothing to gain by implying otherwise. I am highly appreciative of the dialogue we had because it has the potential to help other users down the road. Email or discussion forums can be a very hard location to give intent.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:40:41 PM
Hi feistyone,
Believe me, there was no malicious intent at all.
While working the issue with Julesy, an item occurred that explained where some other users may be having issues.
Customers can fund with a credit card or their bank account.
Many customers added their debit card with the Visa or Mastercard logo when they signed up for the service.
An end user would link debit card usage with their bank account, which is correct in the traditional sense.
However, as far as how our system reads it, there is a credit card on file (the debit card) and the bank account. The customer has a drop down menu appear when they want to make a payment asking if they want to pay with a bank account or a credit card.
A user could mistakenly, and this is a 100% honest mistake, choose pay with a bank account.
This would initiate a withdrawal from their bank account and guarantee it against the debit card, thereby taking money from their bank account and holding the additional amount against the credit card on file (which the customer has registered as the credit card).
The pay with a bank account option is there for users that want money to come from their bank account and not against their credit card.
If a customer chooses the add funds option, this traditionally takes 4-7 business days to clear from the bank to PayPal. Some users don't want to wait that long to send the payment and the pay with a bank account option makes the money available.
I know this might be kind of confusing, but it points to why a withdrawal would occur. Please ask me to clarify any points on this.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:42:43 PMWe showed the card being (after you logged into the account) removed and an additional card being added, which only happens by user interaction.
Just so I am clear, the phrase additional card being added means a whole new card (that is, one that had not been an option before) was added as an option to the account?
Or does that mean that a diffrent card (but one that was already tied to the account) was selected as a payment option?
I can truly appreciate where you are coming from, and I think you know I am not trying to be contentious. If all of this has caused you to re-examine a certain aspect of your product, then I am glad. I know you are sincere, though maybe a bit stubborn, too.
But, I am still at a loss as to how this occurred. Obviously, the logs you have are not infallible. Nothing is. I entered a dialogue with you, and with many emails exchanged, I wish you could look at this from my stand-point. It is just very frustrating to find that my account was changed, and I have no recollection of participating in that change. If there are certain aspects of the add/remove page that would make things so confusing for that to happen, then tell me.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:46:19 PM
Hi Julesy,
Thank you for understanding what I am trying to accomplish. I posted a fairly lengthy post about the product so that (hopefully) more people won't run into the same issues.
I am going to play around with the add/remove feature later to see if I can create an error like you described (one of the fun things is to see if you can recreate it, which gives it additional credibility when working on the issue).
posted on September 21, 2000 03:49:44 PM
Hi paypaldamon,
Are the posts by "paypaldamon" made by one
individual. This case is being handled in
a most peculiar way.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:52:05 PM
Ok, so someone logged into the account and added a brand new card. This new card (I assume, since there have been no claims of fraud and the charge went though) IS a card belonging to the account holder.
IF the account holder did not do that, how could it have happened? Are there other members using the same account? Where did PayPal get the other card number?
posted on September 21, 2000 03:56:11 PM
Hi Julesy,
Could you clarify this? I think the impression the posters are getting is that a card was added without permission or that your account was accessed without your doing so.
posted on September 21, 2000 04:09:26 PMLotsafuzz --
I added the new, additional card, which I wanted to do, and knew I was doing.
The issue is that less than a minute before the log shows I added this new card, another card, my debit card, came *off* the account. That is what I have asked Damon to look at, as I have no recollection of doing it.
posted on September 21, 2000 04:14:09 PM
Ahh....I must have missed that before.
Damon: Am I correct in thinking that paypal allows users to have several (more than 2) cards listed as options at a time? If so, is there a limit of how many cards can be listed?
posted on September 21, 2000 04:22:09 PM
Hi lotsafuzz,
The last time I went in it was 8 cards. However, your spending limit is still capped at 2000.00 over a six-month period when making payments to personal accounts. When paying a business account, the amounts charged do not apply to that limit.
