posted on June 24, 2005 11:27:08 AMBush said setting a timetable for withdrawal of the American forces would only prompt the insurgents to "wait us out."
Wrong. Making a timeline will force the Iraqi's to get off their asses and get something done.
posted on June 24, 2005 12:18:00 PM
Ron, I'm not sure what the correct thing to do is. I hear it's getting worse, so to pull out would make it look like you're leaving them in a hornets nest. If you stay, it looks like an occupation. It's a tough call.
posted on June 24, 2005 12:38:18 PM
I disagree, Ron. Giving our enemies a 'time-line' would be the worst thing we could do. Then they know if they can only hold on until.... they will have defeated us.
And that's proven out by what happened in VietNam. The communists freely admitted that they felt exactly this way. They had been considering/prepared to give up...BUT then they saw the anti-war opposition growing and heard we might be pulling out...so they just waited. I'd personally hate to see us repeat that mistake again.
I do however understand the frustration of those who want the Iraqi's to 'stand on their own two feet'. And they are doing that...in growing numbers they are fighting and dying for their freedom. But, imo, one cannot expect that after 35-40 years, where many haven't even known freedom, liberty, etc. them to suddenly know or understand warfare and how to fight like a military like ours does.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 02:12:55 PM
Linda, I am not saying that the pullout even has to be this year. There is nothing wrong with providing a timeline for pullout even if it is measured in years.
But a timeline is needed and should be done. It would also let the American people know we are serious about not staying.
posted on June 24, 2005 02:36:36 PM
If this question were asked when we first entered WWII, what do you think would have been the answer, Ron?
COULD they have given a timeline? I don't think so as war is un-predictable.
BUT this President said...that we would stay as long as necessary....or until we were asked to leave. And he also made it VERY CLEAR that this war was going to take years.....I believe he even mentioned maybe as long as 10 years.
And you are aware that we have begun building military bases there aren't you? So I don't see a full pullout for generations.
JUST like we're still in Germany and Japan...and several other countries all over the world - and our reason for staying was the same as, hopefully it will be here in Iraq. To insure a country gets stablized and can take care of itself.
Fighting terrorists and giving them our timeline....will only aid our enemies. Why is it that those who have experience in these matters say 'we can't set a timeline' and no one wants to believe them?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 02:46:36 PM
Linda, this is what I think people are misunderstanding, this is not WWII, this is not even a close facsimilie.
President Bush declared mission accomplished and this is the occupation after war. There was a timeline for occuapation forces at the end of WWII
One is needed or we will never leave.
Why should Iraqi forces care as long as we are pulling their butts from the fire?
Ron
posted on June 24, 2005 03:18:58 PM
""And he also made it VERY CLEAR that this war was going to take years.....I believe he even mentioned maybe as long as 10 years.""
Well, maybe he should've told Rumsfeld....Donny said it would be a matter of a few weeks.
Bush doesn't have 10 years...Americans are getting tired of the slaughter ( SIX MORE MARINES TODAY).
Saying he needs 10 years is admitting the war was started with NO planning for the aftermath. 10 years is ridiculous....how many other countries are we going to "liberate" in that time?
Hopw many troops do we have left ?....not many and recruiting is down so far they've taken to kidnapping 16 year-olds.
posted on June 24, 2005 03:28:25 PM
There are some who are critical of the Iraqis and blaming them for not handling things better than they have or taking more control now (such as comments about them getting off their asses) This is not at all like WWII as there is no identifiable enemy and no strategy or planning.
I think the Iraqis are doing the best they can do, considering the onslaught they are constantly under. Their country is destroyed along with it's heritage and it's the most environmentally damaged country in the world as well as a breeding ground for terrorism....... all because of one non-thinking power-happy leader from another country who had a grudge.
Why should anyone expect the Iraqis to have a big plan on how to get out of this mess when the guy that got them into it (along with his henchmen) is so clueless about what he's doing and has no solutions either.
It's like asking for a timeline to defeat world terrorism. It's a bit late to start worrying about a timeline now, don't you think?
posted on June 24, 2005 03:49:41 PM
Ron - this is not WWII, this is not even a close facsimilie.
Ron, I used WWII...but could have used ANY war....we've NEVER set a date as to when we'll pull out. VN, being a little different in that we did leave....and then hundreds of thousands were murdered because of our withdrawal. My use of WWII was as an example to show we're STILL THERE.
President Bush declared mission accomplished and this is the occupation after war.
Nope....he didn't, Ron. There was that sign behind him. But in his speech on board the USS Lincoln, he SPECIFICALLY SAID there was lots more to do/be done. He in no way implied it was over. You need to review his actual words in that speech.
There was a timeline for occuapation forces at the end of WWII. I'm not clear on exactly what you're implying. Are you saying that two years into WWII we set a future date that we were going to withdraw at a specific time and guaranteed to send our troops home? I don't think so, IF that's what you mean.
One is needed or we will never leave.
That's your opinion.....I'll take the opinions of those in command of our forces who I believe know much more about what's likely to happen or not happen over there. But they have said when it is safe to do so, there will be limited troop withdrawal. I've never seen ONE state we would pull out everyone of our soldiers. I don't believe I've ever read a democratic leader in Congress asking for that to be done either.
Why should Iraqi forces care as long as we are pulling their butts from the fire?
They care because they want to be free to govern themselves, Ron. I think they MORE than proved that by risking their LIVES to go vote. Remember the threats from those how promised to kill anyone who voted? But they risk that and did so anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 03:56:23 PM
For those who keep saying thing are getting better in Iraq and for those who are unaware of female Marines in Iraq.
Six Believed Killed in Iraq Convoy Ambush
By PATRICK QUINN, Associated Press Writer 41 minutes ago
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A suicide car bomber and gunmen ambushed a convoy carrying female U.S. Marines in Fallujah, killing two Marines and leaving another four American troops presumed dead, the military said Friday. At least one woman was killed and 11 of 13 injured were female.
The terror group al-Qaida in Iraq claimed it carried out the bombing, one of the single deadliest attacks against the Marines — and against women — in this country. The high number of female casualties spoke to the lack of any real front lines in Iraq, where U.S. troops are battling a raging insurgency and American women soldiers have taken part in more close-quarters combat than in any previous military conflict.
The women were part of a team of Marines who were assigned to various checkpoints around Fallujah. Female Marines are used at the checkpoints to search Muslim women "in order to be respectful of Iraqi cultural sensitivities," a military statement said. It is considered insulting for a male Marine to search a female Muslim.
posted on June 24, 2005 04:04:00 PM
My brother has a few nephews who are in Iraq. A couple are in Tikrit on the base where they train Iraqi police and army units. Tikrit was a power center for the erstwhile dictator, but it is calm there. Many of our guys are invited into local homes (security teams inspect first). The major screw up was in the beginning when they took basically anybody that wanted to join up. Half of them were insurgents. They wouldn't take you if you were ex Republican Guard which was also a mistake, because these guys were among the few with anything on the ball.
Now to join you have to be cleared and several other men already in have to vouch for you. They are putting together lots of motivated and disciplined units, but it takes time.
Don't forget, the insurgents are killing Iraqi troops like crazy and they still join up.
Eventually, there will be enough Iraqis to take the full load, but I doubt we will ever completely leave. Saddam gave us an opportunity to have a military presence on the ground in the Middle East. We'd be crazy to relinquish a foothold in the most strategic place on the planet.
posted on June 24, 2005 04:33:24 PM
As the anti-war groupies keep attention on the deaths of our soldiers.....use them for their own agenda....a little perspective always helps.
posted on June 24, 2005 04:56:00 PM
Thankfully those of us who truly support the troops do not have the same distorted perception that you or your "Whirled View" idols have, Linda_k.
We actually have compassion for the male and female soldiers who are being killed in Iraq and think of them as individuals who had hopes and dreams and a life ahead of them, each and every one of them.
Yes, we know... it's a HARD JOB for Bush to explain his lies and try to convince everyone that things are just fine in Iraq.
But it's going to be a harder job for the family and friends and loved ones who will bury these soldiers after Bush sneaks them back into the US undercover, hoping to hide the deaths from his clueless supporters and the others more interested in who's humping who in Hollywood than they are about their own young people being killed in a stupid war that he caused.
posted on June 24, 2005 06:16:51 PM
Linda_k, only you would call me delusional for thinking that a dead soldier actually had a life filled with hopes and dreams just like the rest of us and for feeling sad that they had to die, instead of thinking of them as mere fodder sent to do your idol's dirty work as you think.
You're a sick puppy that needs help, Linda_k... only you would LOL and post a smiley each time more die. Have you posted 1700 + smiley laughing faces since the war started as your stats?
Or do you LOL and send out twice as many now because of your rage at my support for the troops compounded with your glee over Bush's screw-ups that caused more deaths?
posted on June 24, 2005 06:19:58 PM
We are witnessing the downward spiral of the White House. Sad, they keep trying to claw their way out of the hole, but it keeps getting deeper and deeper.
A perfect example was Rove on Wednesday evening saying, ""Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers..."
Statements like that are nothing more than propaganda that was used by the Nazi's to promote their agenda against those who didn't support them.
Rove knows as well as everybody else that America was united whether liberal or conservative the three months following 9/11. Liberals and Conservatives died on 9/11. Liberals and Conservatives die daily fighting a war in Iraq. Liberals and Conservatives were joined together to kick some terrorist ass after 9/11. The last time I checked, it was the Conservatives who were in office that ignored the warnings to protect America against the attack, it is the Conservatives who are still in office that quit looking for Osama. Oh, wait... Goss said he knew exactly where Osama is, yet rewind a few years ago and Bush claimed that anyone who harbored terrorists would be targeted as well. Hmmm. We know where Osama is, which would also mean that Pakistan knows where Osama is, yet nothing is being done about it. Isn't Pakistan harboring terrorists? Just wondering how that works. Osama hiding out with one of our supposed allies that we furnish weapons to? Can you say Iran Contra all over again????
Who is Rove to say Liberals are the ones who are soft on terrorists??? It's like the White House gave Osama a vacation to regroup.
[ edited by rustygumbo on Jun 24, 2005 06:22 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2005 06:42:34 PM
kiara - To be more clear....I called you delusional because of all the FALSE statements you continue to make about others. And you are....you believe what YOU think they mean....and ignore what they, themselves actually SAY. Yes, that proves one is VERY delusional to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~
And listen to rusty whine and whine....takes a lot of nerve to call Rove on his statement after supporting all the dems have said about this administration....especially the loud-mouthed dean....'there he blows again'.
Another double standard of rusty's it appears.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 06:56:22 PMWe actually have compassion for the male and female soldiers who are being killed in Iraq and think of them as individuals who had hopes and dreams and a life ahead of them, each and every one of them.
By 'We', I mean me, my family, my friends, my associates, all the ones I know who all support the troops and feel sad when they die. 'We' who care.
posted on June 24, 2005 07:00:03 PM
It must have gone over your head the first time, so I'll repost it.
kiara - To be more clear....I called you delusional because of all the FALSE statements you continue to make about ***others***. And you are....you believe ***what YOU think they mean***....and ignore what they, themselves actually SAY. Yes, that proves one is VERY delusional to me.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 07:07:53 PM
I know exactly how I think, Linda_k and I can believe anything I wish to and I can post it right here as my opinion any time I wish to.
You can rage and bold and LOL and post your demented smiley faces all you want but you can never change the fact that I support the troops and that I feel sorry to see them die or become injured.
posted on June 24, 2005 07:10:00 PM
Read the words from a President who has a strong backbone.....isn't afraid of and doesn't make decisions based on polls....thank God.
Today he re-affirmed to our country and to the PM of Iraq...there will be NO TIMETABLE for our withdrawal. The reasons why he won't do so and the purpose of our mission.
posted on June 24, 2005 07:12:34 PMLindak, do you think by repeating yourself and bolding your statements that people will believe what you spew is true?
On the contrary, you only appear as desperate and insincere as the president you worship.
You can count on your big toe how many people here on the RT hold any respect for anything that dribbles out of your mouth these days
posted on June 24, 2005 07:20:20 PM
LOL....and another clown steps up to the plate.
how funny. Nothing to add to the thread....nope....just anti-war reinforcements.
LOL\\
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 07:24:15 PM
linduh drools, ""....takes a lot of nerve to call Rove on his statement after supporting all the dems have said about this administration""
Rove should be "called on" after the horrible insult to 50 % of the population. Listen, stupid, there were LIBERALS who died in the Twin Towers9/11 disater. There are soldiers, liberals, who have been wounded and died in Iraq....
fighting FOR YOU AND the scumbags bush administration !
Takes a lot of nerve ? NO, it takes giving back to the REpugnants what they love to dish out.
Your arguments FOR the Repugnants always starts and ends with "well, the Dems did it, too"
THAT'S your defense ???
Then you must like Democrats ! Think it over dumbell....it's logic.
posted on June 24, 2005 07:24:57 PM
Linda_K you call names when you have nothing better.
Linda_K just said these words "As the anti-war groupies keep attention on the deaths of our soldiers.....use them for their own agenda"
LINDA_K, THIS IS NO FALSE STATEMENT!
Linda_K, YOU CAN JUST STUFF THOSE TYPE OF STATEMENTS BACK IN YOUR BIG LYING MOUTH. THIS TYPE OF "anti-war groupies" BULL ROAR FROM YOU IS NOT,NOT,NOT,NOT,NOT WORKING ANY LONGER. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT OLD WOMAN?
SICKING Linda ITS SICKING
[ edited by bigpeepa on Jun 24, 2005 07:27 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2005 07:29:06 PM
To all you anti-war posters, who haven't a clue as to what's in our Nation's best interests, especially winning this war on terrorism......you're just going to have to LIVE WITH the decisions this President makes.
That's what makes you so very angry....you're NOT in control. You're OUT OF POWER....and you can't handle it.
[i]President Bush assured Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari on Friday "there are not going to be any timetables" for withdrawal of American forces and vowed victory over insurgents attempting to prevent establishment of a democratic government under a new constitution.
"This is not the time to fall back," al-Jaafari concurred at a joint news conference at the White House.
~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 24, 2005 07:33:07 PM
Linda, looks like kiara is double-dippen ya with maggie here!
osh! It's so boring!! All this "all about me and my charming personality" stuff....and how long has this been going on here on the round table...a hundred and three years already?!
You know, if anybody was really interested in these soldiers and sailors they'd pay more than lip service on this board - and would be actually out doing something for them, or about it!
