posted on June 30, 2005 07:42:38 AM newNaturally, you would not make an effort to defend fourth ammendment rights of an individual against unwarranted search.
LOL....and you THINK you know this HOW????
Listen helen, I don't MAKE the laws...I just set you straight on what you know nothing about....as in this case. It's part of all the different things they are REQUIRED BY LAW to do when they are called out for child abuse. Period....end of statement. Nothing at all to do with my making an effort to defend anything. Just a statement of FACTS.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 07:50:04 AM new
Linda...you set no one straight. You only have a narrow vision attuned to the radical right wing agenda. You don't even read comments written here but just dance around with your happy faces and your weak statements that need capitalization in order to carry some dubious amount of emphasis.
Let me give you a clue....A child riding a bike without a helmet is not child abuse.
posted on June 30, 2005 07:55:59 AM new
I know it's hard for you to accept there are just some things in the whole world that you aren't aware of....checking food supply in the houses are just one of them.
But no case has been PROVEN to be a case of abuse when they go out and do their 'search'. They'll all alligations/accusations of abuse. And they are required by law, once reported to be checked out.
Get with it helen...you're in an ugly mood again this morning. Have you ever tried getting up on the other side of the bed. Might just help once in a while.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 08:06:57 AM new
It has nothing to do with a 15 year old not wearing a helmet.
The hospital reports a Child Safety issue.
That brings in DYFUS.
Once called the have their Nose up your Butt till their satisfied.
They have the power in this State to do what they want!
If you don't let them in your house voluntary, they get their Bloomers in an Uproar.
No I doubt if a judge would issue a warrant to search a Fridge.
BUT he would issue a warrant for a Child Safety issue where the Parents aren't cooperating.
DYFUS here can do what they want,and they get their way one way or the other.
And if and when they come back a second time they alway have a Cop with them to make sure there is no opposition.
Cut out the crappy personal comments, linda and pay attention to the topic. Such tatics are obvious and only serve to show that you have nothing substantial to say. You have no way to determine my mood and if you did, what difference would it make in our consideration of this topic?
Dadofstickboy's comment "In Jersey if your kids are under 14 the have to wear a helmet while riding a bike! My boy was 15 riding his bicycle/not motorcycle/BIKE, in the driveway he slid in the driveway and fell and cut his lip.
Took him to the hospital, he needed 3 stitches in his lip.
The doctor asked me if he was wearing a helmet.
I said NO he was old enough he didn't need one if he didn't want it.
Besides he was in the drive and a helmet would have made no difference.
They don't protect the mouth.
The next day DYFUS came to the house to talk to me about the safety of the children at home."
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I emphasized the parts that you failed to read, linda.
Search of the boy's home in this case was completely unjustified and an abuse of power.
posted on June 30, 2005 08:34:47 AM new
LOL....you're assuming AGAIN, helen. Incorrectly again to.
I emphasized the parts that you failed to read, linda.
Your crystal ball is malfunction again.
The ONLY part that I was responding to was the part I wanted to respond to. See....once again you don't control my actions.
Dadofstickboy is correct...the STATE gave CPS the okay to do these searches. The STATE helen...you know the subject you're always so in support of....cradle to grave support and CARE from the STATE.
Just as parklane stated....it's the liberals that have wanted the government more and more involved in our lives - handling what they think we can't handle. And this is but ONE perfect example of what happens when the STATE is given these rights - the can be and are abused. But then they also HAVE brought attention to a child or two that may be being abused.
bbl
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 09:11:54 AM new
I've thought about that (kids getting taken away for no reason) for awhile. I mean, when I met Mike he wanted to have a baby, and I'm glad we didn't! seriously, these times we live in, its scary.
And dad is right, they can come into your home.
The future I see, how long down the road? I don't know, but I see the state raising our children, or having the most control over them.
Ron, yep, here in WA, CPS has a lot of influence in lives, and I am very leary of them.
..."you're always so in support of....cradle to grave support and CARE"
The state gave the agency the job to investigate cases of child abuse. There is no indication of child abuse in this case. Therefore, the state agency has abused their power in an attempt to link a bicycle accident to child abuse. The fact that I support programs to provide welfare services for the poor and those unable to take care of themselves has no bearing on this case.
posted on June 30, 2005 10:53:43 AM new
"a child or two"....oh brother.
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If you want to find out who made the quote, press Ctrl and F at the same time...type the quote into the find box and go up or down and the quote will be highlighted.
You will find that Linda is the author of that quote.
posted on June 30, 2005 12:56:08 PM new
Wait.. Park... I don't understand? You say your MIL has been bed ridden for 20 years..living with you all that time? And did she go along with the abuse claim? Is that why you threw her out? What did her daughter think about you throwing her bed ridden mother out? What happened to her? The worker that was her friend and friends with the supervisor... was she in charge of your MIL's care? Maggie
Hi, Maggie, My MIL has been deceased for years now, but she had been living with us for about two years at the time. MIL was outraged, embarassed, and vehemently opposed the whole thing. She was used as an excuse for a home invasion, I removed the problem. The wife was relieved. She had been primary care for about three years at that time and her mother was extremely manipulative. For example, she would purposely #*!@ on herself if she did not get her way. There was actually considerable strain already in the situation and this was the last straw. I spent most of the next day on the phone trying to convince these people that they might be right and there just might be a problem and they should come out and remove her post haste. MIL spent her remaining years in an apartment at a senior villiage with a full-time live-in care provider, plus other in-home care support carefully scrutinized by her daughter and the friend. Let me see if I remember, the friend was a muckey-muck with supportive services of the county and she was outraged. Part of their creed is to do no harm and they failed miserably.
I am not surprised that profe defends this sort of thing due to his institutional narrow-mindedness. I moved my family to Utah for two years because of the intrusive nature of the local bloated administrator top-heavy school district. In California it is against the law to confine your children or deny them access to a telephone. In Utah I received instruction from a police officer on the approved method to handcuff my problem child to the water pipes in the basement. I kid you not. In my opinion the schools should teach and butt the flock out of telling us how to run our lives, good, bad, or ugly. Time outs, AAARRRGGHHHH, that crap has handicapped an entire generation of Americans. Let's see, I am so myopic that this teaching job is the best I can do, but I know best how to raise a child. What clap-trap. Yes, there are dedicated teachers in the profession for the love of it. Most teachers in California are marking time until they can score an administrative position and drag in a hefty salary for pencil-pushing and bean-counting. Our local district has seven layers of administration between the school board and a high school principal. In Utah the high school principal was directly supervised by a member of the board. Compare the amount spent per student and academic achievement between the two states. No problem there, huh, profe?
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The Islamofascist fig-puckers are fighting to spread their culture and religion, and to destroy ours
posted on June 30, 2005 01:06:59 PM new
Yes, NearTheSea is correct. The system is very MUCH abused and has gotten much worse over the years....as we have read here by those who experienced the 'joy' of a visit from CPS or SPS.
And by many a story in the newspapers...where children are falsely reporting their own parents/step-parents etc. Better have the money to fork out for a good attorney should your child decide to report you for abuse just because you wouldn't let them do somthing they wanted to do. The BIG BAD STATE will protect them from your discipline too.
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May since WA state appears to be more rigid in their investigations....they could transfer some of their workers to the state of FL where children are put in jeopardy by even the ones who are supposed to be protecting them after they are removed from their homes....like the drunk and falling to sleep ones who were transporting children in their care. Sounds like one state has too much time to be heavy-handed and another doesn't have enough qualified help to protect the children in their state.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 02:32:59 PM newI am not surprised that profe defends this sort of thing due to his institutional narrow-mindedness.
I've defended nothing here parklane. In fact, I believe I said I didn't necessarily go along with the system. Believe me, as an educator, I wish it were somebody else's job to notice a kid's bruises. But it isn't, it's mine, and I can go to jail if I fail to act on suspicions of abuse. If your kid came to class repeatedly with bruised wrists, I'd be required to ask him where he got them, and if I suspected he was covering for a father who handcuffed him to a water pipe, I'd turn in the father in a heartbeat, for no other reason than than I am legally required to do so.
My post regarding you was simply to indicate that I find your story pretty fantastical, not to support any position.
Compare the amount spent per student and academic achievement between the two states. No problem there, huh, profe?
It's a big problem. If I lived in California and had kids in school and didn't think they were getting a good education, I'd move. Sadly for those of us in the real western states, lots of Californios are doing just that, and they're bringing their low scoring, pierced, spoiled rotten kids with them. They're like rats abandoning a sinking ship. The only problem is, when a rat leaves the ship, it's still a rat.
Also, your statement above depends a great deal upon what you mean by academic achievement, which numbers you choose to look at. For example, on the 2004 state rankings of aggregate SAT scores of graduating seniors, Utah scored way above California. Looks good, especially when you look at other figures that show how blessed little Utah spends on education per student. But wait a minute, it turns out only 7% of Utah's seniors even bothered to take the SAT, compared to a whopping 49% of California seniors. It's a statistical given that any time you raise the participation rate in a study, the mean scores are going to go down. I guess you could make the case that almost half of California's seniors are college bound, while nearly all of Utah's aren't.
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posted on June 30, 2005 03:13:55 PM newI guess you could make the case that almost half of California's seniors are college bound....
I think that would be a VERY hard case to make....especially with California having a drop-out rate of 31%. And it's much worse with latinos and blacks....they only graduate at a rate of 40 - 50% of those who should have graduated.
posted on June 30, 2005 03:52:02 PM new
Linda, they should put some of WA's CPS workers to work in Florida! The majority of abuse, missing, or murdered children, that I have heard recently come out of Fl!
posted on June 30, 2005 04:01:33 PM new"I think that would be a VERY hard case to make....especially with California having a drop-out rate of 31%. And it's much worse with latinos and blacks....they only graduate at a rate of 40 - 50% of those who should have graduated."
That shouldn't be a hard case to make, linda. I just did a quick search and found the results for 97...
In 1997, 54.9 percent of recent California high school graduates enrolled as first-time freshmen in a California community college, a campus of the California State University or the University of California, or an independent college or university in California. The remaining 45.1 percent of recent high school graduates made other choices -- to enter the workforce, to join the military, to enroll in a private postsecondary or vocational education institution, or to attend a higher education institution in another state, for example. Approximately 15,000 or five percent of California recent high school graduates enrolled as first-time freshmen in higher education institutions outside of California in 1996.
posted on June 30, 2005 06:52:52 PM newI think that would be a VERY hard case to make....especially with California having a drop-out rate of 31%. And it's much worse with latinos and blacks....they only graduate at a rate of 40 - 50% of those who should have graduated.
It's a very easy case to make Linda. Your numbers are irrelevant. California's 2004 participation rate in the SAT taken by graduating seniors was 49%. That means that of all California graduating seniors (forget those who dropped out, they don't matter for this figure), 49% took the SAT. In Utah, only 7% took the test.
To put it another way, 51% of California graduating seniors didn't bother to take the SAT test, while in wonderful Utah, home of little spending, high achievement, and handcuffing naughty kids to water pipes in the basement, 93% didn't bother to take the SAT.
Easy case to make. Google the numbers yourself..."participation rate", is critical when comparing states' SAT scores. Utah scored higher, because they had hardly any kids taking the test.
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[ edited by profe51 on Jun 30, 2005 06:55 PM ]
posted on June 30, 2005 06:55:17 PM new
Near, the operative word in my quote is "real".
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:41:34 PM new
Oh...I see....so we just ignore that anywhere from 31% - 60% are dropping out before completing high school....that makes look SO much better.
Facts are CA schools ARE failing our children. And that HUGE rate of drop-out rate speaks volumns.
Now of course if the profe and helen think those numbers don't count....shouldn't be added in with those who do and don't go to college....then, yes, the numbers looks SO much better.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 1, 2005 04:55:49 AM new
I said you can't count the dropout rate when looking at SAT scores Linda. I know you'd like to put words in my mouth and make it look like I think dropouts don't matter, but it won't work. In my piece above, for the purposes of comparing SAT scores among graduating seniors, the dropout rate doesn't matter, because dropouts aren't graduating seniors and don't take the SAT.
California's dropout rate is high, so is Utah's. In Utah, estimates range between 40 and 90% among indians and latinos.
The fact remains, of the california kids who make it to senior year, nearly half take the SAT, and in Utah, almost none do. That was my original point, it had nothing to do with the separate issue of dropouts.
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posted on July 1, 2005 07:14:51 AM newNow of course if the profe and helen think those numbers don't count....shouldn't be added in with those who do and don't go to college....then, yes, the numbers looks SO much better.
Not putting words in your mouth at all profe. And you're not the only one who gets to decide what THEY think is relivant or not.
Your numbers are irrelevant
The large number of CA drop-outs IS relevant, profe, to me and many others. And when the drop-out rate IS running that high, up to 60%, it DOES very much show how the total educational system IS failing our children. Imo, most aren't ignoring all those who the system is failing and then brag that 1/2 of those who do manage to stay in school are going to college. Has nothing to do with ONLY deciding to use stat numbers to make a point. Numbers can be used in many ways to show [prove] many things.....doesn't mean that's the WHOLE picture of the educational problems.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 1, 2005 07:53:32 AM newNot putting words in your mouth at all profe. And you're not the only one who gets to decide what THEY think is relivant or not.
Never said I was, with the exception that the dropout numbers are irrelevant to the comparison of SAT scores Linda. How could they be relevant.? DROPOUTS DON'T TAKE SAT TESTS, FOR PETE'S SAKE. They are separate issues.That's all I said, that's all I meant. Dropout rates are very important, but they are a separate issue from the one I was addressing, that's all.
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