shiller
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:24:24 PM
I am new to posting here, but not new to reading this board.
I cannot figure out why everyone is so down on auction shilling. I am shocked at how Ebay has made this such a horrible offense.
In reality, it's quite harmless. All of the fraud that is perpetrated on Ebay is much more of a problem!
Why is it so bad to cause someone to pay as much for your item as they are willing to pay?
If the bidder doesn't want to pay x amount of dollars, you can't make them---but if they're willing to pay a certain amount, why can't the seller get that amount from them?
I LOVE the proxy bidding system! And to be honest, shilling isn't the easiest thing to do. It's really an art form. The last thing you want to do is win your own auction. Plus, if you have too many retractions to your ID, it looks fishy.
Again, NOTHING is wrong with shilling. It's capitalism. If you don't want to pay x amount for something---DON'T BID THAT MUCH!
Ebay is so suseptable to public outcry and criticism. That's why they caved in on this. At one time they even condoned the act of shilling. Why? Because there's really NOTHING wrong with it.
[ edited by shiller on Sep 28, 2000 01:27 PM ]
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nicepolice
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:33:41 PM
I would never actually admit to doing it, and haven't. But...I can't actually disagree with what you're saying!!!
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Borillar
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:38:25 PM
Hmmm . . . could be because it is a felony in most states?
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xxxmaximus
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:38:42 PM
HERE HERE! I can't agree more. You know..if you were to say this on safe harbor you would be already blocked. I said hoe I didn't agree with the porn settings there and BOOM! I was blocked. Preach on brotha'!
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reddeer
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:41:13 PM
Because when someone catches on to your little game, they become seriously pissed off & begin to look at every seller as a potential crook.
What, as a buyer you would be happy to find out that you paid $150 on a NON reserve auction knowing that you would have paid $75 if the seller didn't run your bid up?
Get real.
If I caught a local auctioneer pulling a stunt like that, well, let's just say it wouldn't be a pretty sight.
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xxxmaximus
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:43:54 PM
so don't pay that much! Does ebay have to hold everybodies hand when they bid?
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nicepolice
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:45:20 PM
Actually, I guess shilling can be compared to stealing. What's the point of starting an auction at a certain amount, and then driving up the price yourself? If you want to get a certain price, then you have a choice as a seller. Either start the bidding at that price, or put a reserve on it. I never start my auctions at the price I really want, becuase then I don't think the auction would be as attractive to bidders. There are times I do not get what I really wanted, but that's part of the auction game. I suppose if as a seller, you aren't willing to play along then you shouldn't be a seller.
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raygomez
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:46:06 PM
Shilling is not illegal or immoral.
Where I live real auctioneers are allowed to bid-up their own stuff.
It is just another ebay rule . . .
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reddeer
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:48:03 PM
Ray ..... Where I live it is illegal.
Ever wonder why "some" auctioneers have bad reps.
Gee, go figure?
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xxxmaximus
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:48:04 PM
yeah! One of many ebay rules.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:48:57 PM
Where I live real auctioneers are allowed to bid-up their own stuff.
Most likely, where you live, real auctioneers are required to inform bidders beforehand that they are bidding on their own stuff, too.
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shiller
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:49:38 PM
Stores and restaurants and other services have done similar things for years.
How many times do you go in to get that $19.99 special, only to end up paying over $30 for something hidden...or something you really didn't need.
The responsability lies with the person holding the pocketbook. If you don't want to pay that much, DON'T BID THAT MUCH.
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nicepolice
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:52:50 PM
Okay Okay...so nobody holds a gun to my head when I'm bidding. If I don't want to pay the price, then I don't bid. If something I'm bidding on gets too high, then I stop bidding. If its because the seller is doing this with an alias, then I hope he gets stuck as the winning bidder. It's a chance I suppose shillers take. There's really no way to stop them, so why bother even getting upset about it. Things happen. I just try to stay away from questionable auctions. Which reminds me of the time I was going to bid on an item, then checked the other auctions that this seller had up for sale. HONEST TO GOD....Out of 20 different items, 17 bidders had a 0 feedback rating. Now we all know that's no coincidence. Obviously this guy was bidding on his own stuff. I hate sellers like that!! I hope he got stuck paying the fees for those items but not making a sale!!
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nicepolice
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:55:12 PM
xxxmaximus: No thank you. I'd rather give my money to anyone else.
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CoolTom-07
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posted on September 28, 2000 01:58:57 PM
A disruptive poster was suspended this morning and these two show up this afternoon...
Obviously a coincidence.
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rosiebud
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:00:13 PM
I've got two words for this:
Snipe
troll
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nicepolice
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:03:33 PM
Cooltom: xxxmaximus was just suspended. Thanks to Patty Taylor.
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pattaylor
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:04:12 PM
Shiller,
Your posting privileges have been suspended because it appears the account was created for the sole purpose of disrupting the forum.
Pat Taylor
Moderator
[email protected]
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capotasto
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:13:52 PM
Pat... What forum was he disrupting? If you mean he was "disrupting" AW by posting this topic, does that mean only certain topics are allowed?
Vinnie
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:17:05 PM
Oh! Pat!.....THEYall three of them... were having a Troll party...because it is soooooo boriiiiiing on their site....
I just think it is a lot of work to remember to change ID each time...just to be talking to oneself...
********************
Shosh
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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ripvanwinkle
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:27:56 PM
I thought this was a very interesting thread. Why did they boot the guy?
It seems as if when an overreactive user yells "fire" the moderators jump too quickly.
[ edited by ripvanwinkle on Sep 28, 2000 02:28 PM ]
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basestealer
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:37:02 PM
Why did you boot him? He had a point! Now I shall be booted also for saying that!
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ripvanwinkle
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posted on September 28, 2000 02:51:55 PM
Why doesn't AutionWatch chill out!!! They are trying WAAAAY too hard to be everybody's parent. Go forbid we have some fun!
The way these jerks call for the "moderator" is pathetic.
[ edited by ripvanwinkle on Sep 28, 2000 02:52 PM ]
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xxxxmaximus
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posted on September 28, 2000 03:02:09 PM
I agree, oh no here comes the boot!!!
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raygomez
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posted on September 28, 2000 03:51:20 PM
Troll or not, I still have no problems shilling.
In New Mexico, ANYONE can bid on an item (even the owner or auctioneer), so long as they buy the item if they win. The same is true in California.
Borillar:
You are incorrect. Shilling is not, and never has been a Felony or a Federal Offense.
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dman3
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posted on September 28, 2000 04:42:13 PM
hmmm ..
why do they call it shilling why not call it OPEC .
bad news for all who think shilling isnt illgeal or a crime but falsely inflaiting the prices of anything from gas to stocks is a crime .
its no better then insider tradeing or american oil companys holding up gas delivery to create fony gas shortages to incress prices.in fact instead of insider tradeing its insider dealing its a fraud.
you show me one auction house where the auctioneer is bidding up the items or a paid member of the auction house and ill show you an auctioneer thats being fined or on there way to prison.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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packer
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posted on September 28, 2000 05:14:16 PM
They do it all the time at our local auction house. They tell you before hand that they can bid if they want to. I've had them run the bid up on me more then once, but the last time I caught them snickering about it. Needless to say I don't go there anymore. They can shove it.
As far as suspending the starter of this thread. I think AW is getting a little to trigger happy to suit me.
I can't see how they think this subject is disruptive.
Shill bidding WAS perfectly legal and encouraged on eBay at one time. I think it stinks that they now find it so appalling and a suspendable offence.
edited for packer by packer!!
.
Having a BAD hair Day! ... 
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barbarake
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posted on September 28, 2000 05:15:11 PM
What I can't understand is why 2-3 years ago it was perfectly fine for a seller to bid (once) on their own item (on eBay) and now it's a horrible crime.
(Don't bother replying that I must shill myself, that I'm immoral or a thief, etc. etc. I don't, I'm not and I'm not. Just answer the question - why was it fine 2-3 years ago and horrible now?)
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reddeer
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posted on September 28, 2000 05:26:14 PM
Yes, in the past eBay allowed it, but you had to use your own seller ID, not some bogus one to make it look like you were a fellow buyer/bidder.
And guess what happened when sellers did that? Buyers went ballistic! Can't say that I blame them & glad eBay put an end to it.
Sellers can't have it both ways, you either use a reserve, or start the item off without a reserve & let it rip.
How would you feel if a seller started an item off at $1 with NO reserve & then sniped his/her own auction in the final moments after you've been high bidder for several days?
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edhdsn
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posted on September 28, 2000 05:27:08 PM
barbarake Shill bidding became a ebay offence when the reserve fee was put pn the auctions. Its cheaper for some one to pay the FVF on auctions under $100, that list with a reserve and not sell. Ed
edhdsn
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