If you'll read my post above, I believe I and everyone else is aware of who was president for NAFTA. NAFTA was one of Clinton's biggest mistakes is what I believe I stated. CAFTA is just a take-off on that and it will be no better. Remember, we have to bring, peace, prosperity and democracy to other countries. To hel* with out own. Both NAFTA and CAFTA send that same message.
posted on July 31, 2005 10:14:25 AM
Fenix, in answer to your:
""posted on July 31, 2005 09:19:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mingo - while you are copying and pasting could you please copy find and paste here where I have expressed ANY opinion on CAFTA.
My opinion on CAFTA has abolutely nothing to do with the point of what I said."""
It came about because of your:
""""I mean, even Linda, who is frequently accused of seeing only black or white was able to see the sides of the CAFTA issue and recognise that there is not an absolute right or an absolute wrong on the issue. """
And:
"" As for Mingos interpretations of the results of the law, I give those as much credence as I give to Bers""""
Just to give credence since you are obviously unaware of the consequences of CAFTA but feel free to comment on what you think others know or don't know..
To totally deny the "credence" of any poster just because you don't like the way they post is very narrow minded.
Bet you haven't even bothered to read my C&P's.
posted on July 31, 2005 10:35:44 AM
Mingo - if you think that expresses an opinion on my support or lack thereof of the issue - you are making a big leap especially when you consider that I honestly do know that much about the specifics of it and therefor have not actually formed an opinion.
Oh and BTW - I did read the first one but I tend to form my opinions based on the facts of the issue as opposed to others opinions of it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 31, 2005 10:37 AM ]
posted on July 31, 2005 11:14:39 AM
""Mingo - if you think that expresses an opinion on my support or lack thereof of the issue -"""
No, Fenix, I don't and NEVER said it did...you are leaping...
"" you are making a big leap especially when you consider that I honestly do know that much about the specifics of it and therefor have not actually formed an opinion. """
If you have not formed an opinion and do not know the specifics then why say you don't give my posts credence? Kinda got it backwards, doncha?
posted on July 31, 2005 11:38:36 AMAnd, like the rest of bear's post, is totally without any proof whatsoever. Just a bunch of droolings from another Alzheimer's victim.
You can change user names all you want MingoT/DingoP. The attitude, verbage & mindless rants are still classic craw. Deny it all you want but your tells have given you away.
A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
- Bill Cosby
posted on July 31, 2005 01:10:29 PM
Not at all backwards Mingo - you see when someone loads their statements with as much hyperbole and has a history of twisting, manipulating and flat out misrepresenting things, I eventually cease to give credence to their opinions.
Here's a perfect exmple of what I mean:
Here is your statement interpreting a post made earlier by Linda
In the CAFTA thread she just posted with smilies all over the place how happy she is that CAFTA passed....delighted that more Americans will lose their jobs, delighted that the poor in South American countries will now be abused even more, delighted that the rich in South American countries will become even richer on the broken backs of the poor laborers there. NAFTA did it and now LindaTwelveK is sooo happy CAFTA will do it , too.
Now - when I go to the CAFTA thread and look for a smiley laden post from Linda made prior to this statement, I find this...
Had the 11 democratic Senators [plus jeffords] NOT joined the republicans....the measure would not have passed. And 13 republicans voted against it.
[i]So maybe some dems might want to see if the 12 that voted WITH the republicans are up for re-election of their office in 2006 too.
AND in addition in the House the bill only passed by TWO votes.....so...had any of the 15 House democrats not voted for Cafta ....then things would have turned out much differently.[/i]
BUT....they didn't....and all 15 of those democrats will be up for re-election in 2006 too. Any democrat upset that these dems voted to support CAFTA.....can vote accordingly in 2006.
I do not see ANYTHING in that post that deals with the facts or ramifications of the bill (Or support of lack of support either for that matter). All I see is a post about how the party lines were drawn on the topic. Now, considering the massive misrepresentation that you offered up I think the question is not why don't I give your posts credence... It's why do you think that I should?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 31, 2005 01:44:01 PM
""you see when someone loads their statements with as much hyperbole and has a history of twisting, manipulating and flat out misrepresenting things,"""
That attitude sure doesn't give you many, or any, one to post to here!
You give no credence to my posts but yet keep answering them ????
And LindaTwelveK , with her smilies and total blind obedience and zombie like devotion to the Bush administration, coupled with her history on the RT, naturally makes me fully convinced that she is happy about CAFTA.
Besides, fenix, I think you know that you are quite capable of a little twisting yourself ( especially to save face
posted on July 31, 2005 03:52:00 PM
edited because I changed my mind on this post. Thank you for viewing
[ edited by NearTheSea on Aug 1, 2005 12:51 PM ]
My comment was with regard to mingo's post. The post that stated "NAFTA" and the "900,000 jobs lost". Clinton's name was not mentioned, but the "jist" of her article was predictable, to say the least.
Truthfully, I haven't read much of what is being "stated", as it is being accompanied by alot of name-calling and garbage. Hardly what I would consider intelligent debate concerning what makes a liberal.
posted on July 31, 2005 04:08:39 PM
Cheryl- I looked, as you said, and your statement was in the CAFTA thread. (I hadn't read that one in a few days.) My comment was to someone else about a statement made in this thread, where most of the comments are getting unseemly, so I'm in "scanning" mode.
Are you OK? Your fuse seems to be shorter lately. I know you've been under a LOT of stress lately with your family. If "when it rains it pours" seems to be your life's description...you all must be building an ark.
This thing with my nephew has placed a great deal of weight on my shoulders. I did receive some good news today (of course, it was followed by bad news), he is in remission. However, a fungal infection in his blood won't clear up and they can't start the 2nd round of chemo until it does.
I should feel somewhat better after I see Neil Diamond next Monday! The only song I don't look forward to hearing is Sweet Caroline. That song has been played to death!!
posted on July 31, 2005 05:32:14 PM
Ya know, Cheryl, my friend's mother tried to get me to listen to the lyrics of a Neil Diamond song, and I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, so what?" Twenty years later I actually listened to it, and it was about an older woman having sex with a younger man. Major forehead slapping moment. Not to say Neil Diamond is old, but he was around when they landed on the moon. Is this one of those Tony Bennett things? You know, a multi-generational guy, like Sperm Thurman?
On subject, I have conservative opinions, I have liberal opinions, I don't run my flag up anybodies pole. I worry about zealot's, suchas Vegans, anti-abortionist's, and racial extremists. You all will be needed in the coming struggle, I plan to have left by then.
__________
The Islamofascist fig-puckers are fighting to spread their culture and religion, and to destroy ours
posted on July 31, 2005 06:21:59 PM
Heard on tv somewhere today: Liberals like to say they have an open mind, ,but everybody knows thats because they have a giant hole in their head and most of their brains have spilled out.
I spent a lot of time when I was younger listening to Neil Diamond. I guess that says I'm old. Sigh. I'm a 60's and 70's kind of gal and carried that right on over to my political beliefs. Just an old hippie.
posted on July 31, 2005 08:33:14 PM
The only thing my parents fought over in their divorce were the Neal Diamond albums. Granted that he is good but I just never got into his stuff. My favorite 70's type is probably Jackson Brown although I have a soft spot for (pre-disco) Dr Hook & The Medicine Show as well.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on August 1, 2005 04:23:09 AMprofe I don't see how stem cell research and your opinion on obese people are the same.
I don't either. I didn't say they were. But maybe I should have...or not.
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y saliσ trasquilado...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on August 1, 2005 05:30:43 AM profe I don't see how stem cell research and your opinion on obese people are the same.
Only Nearthesea can explain that one!
I see that even Classic is stumped. When Classic can't come up with a one liner, you can be sure that all possible interpretations have been tried and failed.
posted on August 1, 2005 01:11:10 PM
"and seen Barry Manilow twice......that was two times too many"
Classic, some of my friends were in the catering business in Ft. Worth. Manilow was giving a concert at the arena. They catered and he required a food taster before eating.
posted on August 1, 2005 01:19:00 PM
Bill-That doesnt surprise me lol- I wouldnt have seen him at all,except my wifes a Manilow fan.This guys Jewish and hes the biggest ham east of the Mississippi-this guy just makes my f*cking skin crawl.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on August 1, 2005 04:23:44 PM
db-it was a play on words.Jews dont eat ham
but I called him the biggest ham east of the Mississippi-just a play on words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on August 1, 2005 04:51:20 PM
Bush the Liberal
By Charlie Madigan
Tribune senior correspondent
Published October 18, 2004, 7:36 AM CDT
It's interesting how easily people toss the world "liberal" around these days. I ran into one of the best examples of all in email just about an hour after I had written the Rambling Gleaner that followed the last of the presidential debates in Tempe, Ariz.
I had squirted in a little section on how difficult life can be for the working poor in America and suggested a couple of lines for a good song that might be recorded by a favored group, the Dixie Chicks, for example, or one of those big-hat country western singing guys.
As is the case with almost all emails that contain references to putting something unpleasant in someplace bad, this one had no name. But the author was assured that I was most certainly a liberal because I had mentioned the Dixie Chicks favorably.
So that's what being a liberal is all about! The Dixie Chicks. Finally a definition!
No wonder President Bush is so eager to paste the liberal stigma on John Kerry. He certainly doesn't want the Dixie Chicks singing at the White House, not after what they had to say about him while they were on tour in England last year.
Can we really be this stupid?
I don't think so, but I do think it would be very interesting at this point to see what everyone thinks of the word liberal. There's a message board here for you to send along what you think the word means.
As a political label, I believe it just doesn't work any more and is roughly as ineffective as the word "conservative." Both of them are outmoded, loosely used and probably meaningless for any purpose other than to stir up a collection of people who are just too dumb to know, first, what they really mean, and second, how they are misused.
There may well be no true liberals or true conservatives anymore.
Here is the political definition of liberal, straight from Webster's New World:
"...tolerant of views differing from one's own; broad-minded; specifically, not orthodox...of democratic or republican forms of government, as distinguished from monarchies, aristocracies, etc...favoring political reforms tending toward democracy and personal freedom for the individual; progressive..."
It does go on and on.
But it doesn't take a lot of analysis to conclude that by this measure--the measure of what the word actually means-- that the most liberal person running for president this time around isn't John Kerry, who of late has never been any thing more than an ideologically Democratic senator with ambitions, but, surprise of surprises is...
...President Bush.
What could be more liberal than "favoring political reforms" in Iraq that tend "toward democracy and personal freedom for the individual?" What could be more liberal than trying to reform an entire system of education with a "No Child Left Behind" program? What could be more liberal than experimenting with tax policies to encourage economic growth? How about putting faith-based initiatives into a government that has traditionally, and conservatively, shunned most agendas connected to religion?
This of course, will lead a lot of people who don't understand the words "liberal" and "conservative" to send more of their "Give me some of that stuff you're smoking" emails. But the fact of it is, all I am ingesting is information from the dictionary, which everyone should try once in a while, just to keep things straight in their head.
Other Bush characteristics seem to fall into the liberal category, too.
It's most certainly not a conservative thing to run up a deficit this vast in such a short period of time. In fact, one might argue from a purely intellectual perspective that President Bush is the second great tax-and-spend Republican to come along, with Ronald Reagan being the first. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, was a conservative advocate of shrinking government and whittling away at deficits until they had disappeared.
In our ignorance of political history and culture, though, it's easy for a candidate to duck that liberal label by pasting it as firmly as he can on his opponent.
I can't quite figure out when the word liberal became demonized, but it has been a little bullet fired from the Republican arsenal in just about every campaign I have followed for the past couple of decades. It beats me as to why, but I think at some point during President Reagan's first campaign he tangled it up with the Rockefeller Republicans (who were really liberal for Republicans) and came away knowing the strategy of pasting "liberal" on an enemy actually worked.
Somehow I feel the object lesson in all of this stretches not back to Reagan, who wasn't a mean-spirited man after all, but to a darker character in American political history, Joseph McCarthy, the Wisconsin Senator who pasted the label "communist" on just about everyone who disagreed with him.
That was strategic, too, just as the modern Republican use of the word "liberal," as though it were a slander, was strategic. Someplace on a bookshelf at home there is a studious Cold War tome that notes that Tail Gunner Joe of Wisconsin had a couple of choices for campaign themes during one tough race. He could either make the St. Lawrence Seaway his issue, or Communism. The choice was obvious.
If things had gone differently, maybe modern political candidates would be struggling over charges of St. Lawrence Seaway appeasement and Canadian encroachment than over labels like liberal and conservative, which are, I suspect, equally useless except as bait for people who don't understand what they mean.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
