posted on October 3, 2000 07:50:58 AM new
You can read this under "Policy changes" at PayPal.
In order to reduce the cost of credit card processing associated with accounts that do not pay fees, on Monday October 16, PayPal will introduce a new limit on Personal Accounts: a $500 limit on receiving credit card payments every six months. Payments funded from the sender's bank account or existing PayPal account balance will not count against the recipient's limit. Recipients exceeding the $500 limit will no longer be able to accept credit card payments unless they choose to upgrade to a Premier or Business Account. Credit card payments sent to a Personal Account in excess of the limit will be held as "pending" until the recipient chooses to accept the payment by upgrading or to return it to the sender by refusing the payment. Personal Accounts exceeding the limit will still be able to receive payments funded from a bank account or existing PayPal account balance.
Well I guess it's time to add a 1.00 handling fee that will be waived if the bidder does not use PayPal! I would bet that PayPlace will be doing a bunch of business. I hope that they are ready for it! And now you must keep $100 in your X.com account or they will charge you $12.00 / month. What a joke these guys sure know how to run the customers away in droves! Face it Paypal is dead in the water. They will go by the way side just as fast as they came on the seen. Can you believe it?
posted on October 3, 2000 01:20:12 PM new
The only people I can see that this would upset is folks who are trying to run a business disguised as something other than what it is.
If you are in business admit it and realize PAYPAL's percentages are VERY low. I would imagine that the whiners are the same ones who don't declare their on line sales on their income taxes, have no State Retail Tax Number, and other wise try to skirt the law.
If you aren't making enough profit to afford 1.90%, then you need to get in another business.
posted on October 3, 2000 01:28:53 PM new
I have both accounts and plan to use them appropriatly. I never have expected anything free except as a promotion. If they really thought they could survive on the float they were smoking some strong stuff. Still cheaper than anything else. The other free ones will have to go the same way in time or die.
posted on October 3, 2000 01:42:04 PM new
To me it is fine when you upgrade and pay the fees. But PayPal said the fees are to reimburse them for the credit card processing fees they incurr. But from what I understand if you upgrade you pay on ALL payments made to you via PayPal. If you upgrade and pay fees for those who pay only by credit card thats where I dont see the problem. Thats just wrong that they charge for every payment. Or am I wrong and if I am how would you know exactly where the payment did come from? I will wait to upgrade till I am forced. When I am I will simply say "all Paypal payments will incurr a handling fee of $1.00".
And to the statement that you are in the wrong business if you cant afford the 1.9% fee. It makes me wonder what you are selling. I sell 100 items/month that range from 2.00 to 5.00 and the added fees will really hurt. I sell the items because they cost 10cents each. So it costs ten cents, then there is a 25cent ebay insertion fee, then there is the ebay final fee, now Paypal wants a cut and before you know it ebay will increase its fees also (just wait). So now I have to pay upwards of 70cents and make a 1.30. How many people will you let dig in your pockets?
And x.com with the 100.00 limit or 12.00 fee....they are garbage anyway! I have used them since AW announced them. I have only received four payments from them....so they are already out the door. Bye Bye X.COM.
These are some of the Pay sites I have on a list and wondered which most think will work best.
posted on October 3, 2000 01:42:35 PM new
I'm not any happier with Paypal's new fees than anyone else - but about 85% of my customers pay with Paypal so I will keep them.
Be careful if you're thinking about switching to Payplace.
I had 2 successful transactions with them (Payplace). After my 3rd transaction, they said they needed me to add a "new bank account" and if I don't I can't get my money from my 3rd transaction! I wrote them several days ago: still no response.
Another reason I don't think Payplace will be getting Paypal's business is because of this: (Directly from PAYPLACE's website)
You may withdraw your full amount from your PayPlace account, if you are requesting that we send you a check. However, $200 is the maximum you can electronically transfer from PayPlace to your bank account within a 90-day period.
Sign in with Payplace and click on "help" at the top and then click on "withdrawing money" and scroll down to the question that says "What is the maximum amount I can withdraw from my PayPlace account?"
That is straight off of Payplace's website.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on October 3, 2000 01:49:19 PM newjwpc:If you aren't making enough profit to afford 1.90%, then you need to get in another business
That would be your clue that such persons *aren't* a business. The majority of people selling on eBay & similar sites do not do so full-time, nor get the better part of their income from it. By your criteria, if someone isn't actually supporting themselves with online auctions they shouldn't do it at all...doesn't work like that.
posted on October 3, 2000 02:09:09 PM new
I don't plan on using CCNow until after my lobotomy. A lobotomy should make that 9% rate most acceptable.
Other than the high transaction rate, 30 day float, and $30 chargeback fees I guess ProPay is a great idea. My opinion on it will also probably improve after the lobotomy.
MoneyZap is free but when fees are in place the buyer pays the fee. Has Western Union's name behind it... the problem is nobody has used it, I've offered it for a month, but I'm a hobby seller.
PayDirect I've offered for awhile, fees in the future, no protection for the buyer and the buyers haven't used it on my hobby sales.
I think the smart sellers are going to let the buyer decide which is the pay service to use. While I don't have many buyers they've found PayPal fits their needs. Buyers are probably going to be a bit reluctant to sign up with every different pay service that comes along and they are coming along fast and furious now.
posted on October 3, 2000 02:19:42 PM new
jwpc and Rainybear, How right you are. If you are making more than $500 ever 6 months then you are def. a business and you should upgrade. I sent several hundred dollars worth of payments to sellers yesterday, 3 were Powersellers and had personal accounts. I am glad that they finally clairifed what in the way of payments qualifies you as business, it will be interesting to wathc all the people say "Dammit, I am NOT a business. I have said it a hundred times on here, if you don't like it, cancel your account and be done with it, all the complaining is not going to change it. Heather
posted on October 3, 2000 02:21:00 PM new
Well..., PayPal finally defined what the criterium is for personal vs. non-personal actually is -- something that should have been decided well before the moment they started rolling out this whole upgrade mess, in my opinion.
$500 for every six months seems a little low, though. I could see simple closet cleaning exceeding this -- except not for periods on end, though, but maybe one period.
At least they're defining clearer lines and choices, to either use or reject on that basis. Yet the way they handled this and the verification thing is still unforgetably ugly, and I personally would not trust them with my money.
BTW, do they still have the buttons set up in a surprise-your-upgraded! way?
Are they still foisting "Unverified" labels on sellers? (I stopped loading any images except those of the item itself, so I haven't been paying any attention to that for awhile. )
I noticed there wasn't a closer clause (my term), though, that if someone ends up exceeding the limit by surprise (e.g. one item's bids went unexpectedly high), that someone could say "I didn't expect this, and would rather close the account than upgrade or return the money." That's what makes $500/6 months seem low to me. Anyone could sell something that fetches higher than expected amounts, that together with the previous sales in that period, would end up implying they're a business. Or maybe that's what the "premier" is for, that if you're that good or lucky to have good stuff that goes over.... Still, a very fine line, but at least they're defining a line.
The X.com $12/month when less than $100 balance is a "maintenance fee," pretty typical at banks (but is $12 a pretty typical fee amount? ). I think the "maintenance fee," in any amount is very unfriendly concept to start with, however. If someone tends to keep low amounts in checking but never overdraws, they are in effect still being punished. I always prefered a bank that would instead give small amounts of interest for balances over $500 or some such. Reward those who keep bigger balances in, punish the ones that actually overdraw, and leave the people who keep small balances but never overdraw alone. But most banks have such a fee, so X is with the majority I guess.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ Edited to expand the sixth paragraph. ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Oct 3, 2000 02:25 PM ]
posted on October 3, 2000 03:18:40 PM new
This is NOT a question of OUR ethics or honesty jwpc. Please place your judgement where it belongs, in the lap of the dishonest one PayPal
They operated it like a drug pusher. Gave it away free until they got us hooked and then started charging.
posted on October 3, 2000 03:28:39 PM new
I sent payment to a "shooting star" seller on eBay yesterday. The account screen said "Unverified Personal Account." 'Got a chuckle out of that.
Most of my items sell for $10-$20. The fee will definitely impact my profit. I would have been glad to pay six months ago. But I think Paypal handled this all wrong. They lied to us, a bald-faced lie. For that reason I'm not going to offer the Paypal option any more. If and when PayDirect starts charging fees, I'll consider it.
posted on October 3, 2000 04:06:09 PM new
They require upgrade and they promise this;
international transaction in 2000. When you inquire about this service this is how they respond to you via email!!
"Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Within the next few weeks, we plan to introduce a way to receive
payments from 25 countries. In the meantime...
PayPal is currently available only to U.S. residents age 16 and
up. To open an account at this time, you must have a U.S.
address. To fund or withdraw money from this account, you must
have either a credit card issued in the United States or a U.S.
bank account.
We are planning to expand our service internationally and have
made it one of our top priorities for this year."
There was more to the email but it does not apply to my post. So how far away is international transactions? Who knows?
Also I have not been able to see any change to the tos on the Pay Pal site, where do you find these terms?
posted on October 3, 2000 04:10:07 PM new
This is in their "policy changes" page:
International Payments Free for Domestic Users
Entry Date: October 2, 2000 Effective Date: October 31, 2000 PayPal plans to introduce the ability to send money to, and receive money from, international users in 26 countries by Halloween. There will be no additional fees for domestic customers to send or receive international payments.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on October 3, 2000 05:02:58 PM new
valerie47
these "policy changes pages" I still do not see them on www.paypal.com, I must be blind or not looking in the right place.
can you help?
posted on October 3, 2000 05:30:58 PM new
Although Paypal has yet to demand I upgrade, I have noticed that my auctions have gone from about 70% Paypal to 30%. Usually I go to the post office the day after my auctions close with 3 bins full of items to ship. Today I had 4 items to send even though 90% of my auctions closed successfully--most with multiple bids.
I hope Paypal doesn't scare too many customers away--it's a hassle going to the bank to cash checks and money orders. Paypal made everything so easy.
If that link doesn't work, sign in to Paypal, and at the left there is a little square that says "what's new" and in it there is a link that says "Policy Changes". If you click on that link it will take you to a page of all of their changes.
Hope that helps!
Valerie
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on October 3, 2000 05:47:39 PM new
$500 over a period of 6 months works out to $83 dollars per month. Gee, in a year such a seller would make a whopping $996! Yeah, that's big business, alright.Such folks must be living high on the hog, don't you think?
How'bout doubling that figure? Why...such a Captain of Industry would be in the lap of luxury! $1992? Whooeee!!! And those dastards dare to say they aren't a business!
posted on October 3, 2000 07:30:19 PM new
Bunnicula - You make readin' fun. And that's for sure.
By my estimate, I'll probably start to reach my limit around....Christmas! Won't that be a lovely time to stop taking PayPal? Still don't want to eat those fees, though. Go ahead and call me cheap or a poor busineswoman, but yes, I belong to that select group of ebay sellers for whom a 25 cent and up fee per transaction kills the bottom line!
Maybe by Christmas a lot of our buyers will start using another payment service? We can only hope.
posted on October 3, 2000 08:19:12 PM new
Paypal is shooting themselves in the foot. In the eight months or so that I've been a member, I helped recruit a couple dozen new members. Now I will no longer be recruiting new members. That means no "I recommend paypal" BS, or any mention of them in my EOA emails. I will put paypal as a method of payment accepted in my TOS, but no logo. God, I love free choice!!! America is great! They are entitled to profit; not entitled to treat their members as fools. If I come near the limit of $500, I just will accpet MO and checks with a mention that Paypal will not be accepted. It won't look good for paypal if sellers disallow the buyers to send the money through them. Most people lately have been sending payment through checks or MOs anyway, so it doesn't look like it'll effect my operation anyway. Go ahead paypal, give me one more reason not to use your service ever again!
posted on October 3, 2000 08:24:52 PM new
I still list PayPal in my auctions just to draw in bids from the "PayPal only" bidders. but I don't even mention it in my EOAs. I suggest ExchangePath or Paydirect (in that order). And ya know what? Since I started doing this about 5 weeks ago only 6 customers have paid with PayPal. Most are opting for ExchangePath with PayDirect a close second. PayPal isn't even in the ballgame anymore even though I still list them in my auctions. Life is good...
posted on October 3, 2000 10:04:07 PM newkeziak: I had no problems *before* I started using PayPal, so don't worry about going back to being "PPless." In almost two years of selling I have never had a bad check sent to me. Not one. And on a few occasions I have even sent books out before receiving payment if buyer said it was a present & needed to be there by a certain date--and never got burned.
For small (alright, eentsy-weentsy) sellers like myself, the $500 limit mentioned now by PayPal sounds good. But I will wait a few months before using PP again just to see how they are operating.
I like this new rule of theirs because, like others, I just can't afford the fees. Now, this statement will no doubt bring jeers from others who just can't understand that concept. That's their problem. Looking back on the "How Many" thread in the Partners Forum, I found my tabulation for my last 6 months on PP before I decided to stop using them for the moment:
"I went over my records from the time I finally decided to accept PayPal payments in April to the present (roughly 6 months):
In that time, I had 28 payments sent to me using PayPal--which averages at less than 5 per month. And what munificent sum was the total of those 28 transactions? Why, the awe-inspiring, mind-boggling amount of...$290.67. In six months. Works out to something like $48.44 per month."
As I recline on my silk cushions sipping Dom Perignon and munching on imported Russian caviar, I gaze around me & sigh with happiness. I...am...a superpower in the world of online auctions!! The riches pouring into me monthly have freed me from the cares and worries of everyday mundane life. Yes sir, that extra $48.44 per month makes all the difference!! And what makes it all sweeter if that I am "pulling the wool" over PayPal's eyes by claiming not to be a business. Ha! The joke's on them. Can life get any better?
posted on October 3, 2000 10:25:55 PM new
>>"If you are making more than $500 ever 6 months then you are def. a business and you should upgrade."<<
Come on Heather. You have to be kidding, right? If someone makes $83.33 per month they are conducting a business? The only business people I know of that make that little are Amway distributors.
[ edited by feistyone on Oct 3, 2000 10:44 PM ]
posted on October 4, 2000 05:14:26 AM new
HI Bunnicula -
I took a look at my past 6 months on PP and it appears to be significally more than $500. But what I can't tell is whether the buyers used a credit card or their PP balances. I use my PP balance 90% of the time when I pay this way.
From what I"m reading here, signing up for a business account with PP is simply a loser. I don't want to pay the fees on EVERY transaction. I expect I'll spend the next couple of months whittling away at my $500 limit, while investigating one of the other services.
I'm now listing on Yahoo and started checking out PayDirect, but got tired of entering all my information so I bombed out. I'll take another look.
posted on October 4, 2000 06:44:54 AM new
bunnicula
Having been on eBay over 5 years, and from talking to zillions of sellers, it is my feeling that many, many part time sellers are certainly greatly exceeding the $500 every 6 months or so, which is the PayPal limit between personal & business. I feel that many are just mad when someone calls their hand on what they are actually doing; or perhaps some are simply deluding themselves.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
twinsoft
You said that your items sell for between $10 & $20 and that the PayPal fee would greatly impact you. Any standard business calculates the cost of "doing business" into their prices. Therefore, if you sell an item for $10, and it greatly impacts you to pay $.44 to use PayPal, you need to rethink and/or restructure how you determined your prices.
Whether you consider yourself a business or not, the fact is profit is made by running your venture as any standard, successful business would. Bottom line for most businesses is at least a keystone price; that is if you paid $5.00 for the item you would sell it at $10, anything less and after all expenses, you are losing money.
Whether one is a full time Power Seller, or a once in a while "part time" seller, approaching selling in a business like manor means all the difference in your ultimate profit.
If you were selling in a Flea Market, there are base costs involved there also, and if these are not calculated in to the "cost of doing business," you are deluding yourself into thinking you are making more than you actually are.
Gas, phone bills, printer paper, printer ink, computers, wrapping paper, etc., tape for wrapping, add up fast, and are considerable deductions when income tax rolls around. For instance, if you don't consider vehicle gas, then realize the costs you are over looking in whatever type of "enterprise" you are perusing. It takes gas to run the car to go to the post office, it takes a phone to run most computers, it takes paper, it takes an ISP (cable of such) ink, etc., etc., if you are absorbing all of these costs, then you need to review your true profit, because you costs are certainly more than eBay fees or PayPal fees.
If you run around to Flea Markets to find items, or auctions, etc., all that should be included in your "cost of doing business." That is gas and time spent. You may say you are having fun, but the fact is it cost to run all over creation locating items in this manor, and failure to include this as costs, doesn't make it disappear, you are merely deceiving yourself as to profit & loss.
Most small businesses fail because they fail to include the true cost of doing businesses. You can't grow or even profit unless you operate your venture as any reasonable business would....
posted on October 4, 2000 07:08:01 AM new
The problem with "you have to run your business yadda, yadda, yadda...." is that a lot of sellers on eBay are NOT in business.
Face it, eBay is a national garage sale for a lot of folks. Garage sales aren't run for profit. They're run to get rid of stuff, clear out, make room for new stuff, make back a little of the money you paid for your stuff --- and to meet people, be they neighbors, strangers or someone who collects something you used to collect.
The "business owner" philosophy doesn't fit everyone on eBay. And expecting everyone to fit that model will drive these sellers away --- and eBay will lose much of what made it a success as the "person-to-person" gives way to business to consumer.
Heck, this new PayPal limit makes a PayPal account useless for my daughter's Brownie troop. That little pack of 7 year olds would be a "business" in PayPal terms during cookie season and that "tiny" quarter + 1.9% would take a huge bite out of the troops proceeds. Too bad, PayPal would have been a great tool for multiple sales and a real convenience, too.
posted on October 4, 2000 08:06:58 AM new
The Facts are...
1) Their fee is not too bad - but...
2) PayPal lied period end of report
3) People will no longer recruit for them
4) Sellers will prefer to use other services
5) Paypal will loose market share
I believe that they will not be #1 in 6 months. If I were a paypal competitor I would be all over this like clinton on a white house intern. This is a great opportunity!
I will continue to use them & upgrade but they will way down as a last payment option behind paydirect & payplace. I will offer and incentive to not use them! I believe others will also.
posted on October 4, 2000 08:19:12 AM new
Now lets not forget the argument that it is the small people that made Paypal what it is today & now they are throwing us aside. I think we should all stick a sticky paper on our foreheads that reads 'I Made Paypal What It Is Today'. Find space between the 'I made eBay What It Is Today so Bow & Worship Me'.
I just love tauntings all those weenies. You know, if you are not running a business in eBay & only sell part time like a garage sale, why the f&#@ are you bi&#@ing about Paypal. If you are closing 5 auctions a week, frigging just take checks or Money Orders. Yeah so its not as conveniant as Paypal but at least you can take that friggin sticker 'I MADE PAYPAL' outta your head. Its a nice day outside, there's a world out there besides computers, so if you sell 5 auctions a week or every 6 months...its not worth all the whining for cryin out loud.
Ya know if selling 5 auctions a week & Paypal is causing you so much discontent about why the kid is driving an F1 car and you a dinky Mazda...why don't you just donate your stuff to charity & at least you can sleep better at night.
posted on October 4, 2000 08:21:18 AM new
Just wanted to add never mind...these are the same people that go the distance in the 'Save the Turtle Thread' and 'The Doll War of 1999'.
