posted on October 4, 2000 11:32:19 PM new
networker67
For once, I agree with some of what you have to say, however, your statement: "Moving along mboyko didn't get caught he got snitched on and ebay still hasn't any proof that an infraction has ensued." I'm not so sure that this is true. I'm assuming that they do have records of what was listed the first time and what was relisted. It would be easy enough for them to investigate that.
packer
"Because I don't have a scemeing mind I would have never thought of doing that."
It doesn't really take a scemeing mind to come up with that. I was thinking the other day about matching up items, and thougt that it would be easy to do this while relisting. Then I thought: I wonder what would happen if a person were to relist a different item entirely? Of course, I thought that Ebay would definitely not take kindly to this and let it pass. You see I am guilty of thinking the same thing and I don't consider myself as having a scemeing mind.
The thing that really bothers me is all these people letting the insults fly and making mboyko out to be some kind of devil [Not intended as an insult]. They should first turn the spotlight on themselves and wonder if they are qualified to judge.
Have you ever bent the rules just a bit or went ahead and done something because it was a gray area? If so, you're not qualified!
Let's see the hands of all the perfectly honest people out there.
posted on October 5, 2000 12:22:24 AM new
Last night when I read mboyko's plea for help and I made a suggestion as to why he may have "been banned from eBay" I could tell from his reply that he was not sure of the reasons why and none of us may ever know either.
When I read again all of his comments I view him as a young man with a laissez faire attitude who was enjoying his career on ebay. He was flying by the seat of his pants but in some ways I find him quite likable and this has probably hurt him a great deal. I do think he should be given another chance if he can resolve this with ebay.
posted on October 5, 2000 12:49:30 AM new
Whats That Saying?? A weed is only a flower in disguise? Hmmm, still looks like a weed to me.
Look Look Look at me guys~I'm so smart I'll show you the way~ I'm I'm I'm OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH Noooooooooooooooo.
Did you ever get caught cheating in school?
Hmmmmmm just rewards come to us in many ways.
posted on October 5, 2000 04:13:30 AM new
Networker -
"someone here sends a copy of a thread from auction watch to ebay support and a user gets suspended with no real proof from ebay's proprietary systems that a violation occurred. Why should any ebay user have to live with punishment for an infraction that ebay can't prove or disprove happened."
Am I to assume you have hacked the EBAY system, reloaded their backup tapes, and know for certain that it isimpossible to prove what this person did or did not do on a relist?
Looking at Mboyko's transactions would be easy: just pull up all the relists and check description text to see if it's even close to the same item.
There are text analysis programs that could spot the probably phony relists by comparing the auction descriptions. Sure titles and categories can change, but a widget does not become a gadget on a relist.
posted on October 5, 2000 05:04:10 AM new
godfrey94 - "Networker & RB – Your comments on this subject seem to reflect that Mboyko it telling you the complete story."
Are you taking cold medicine too? Show me where I have sided with MBoyko ANYWHERE.
"Ebay gives warnings, then temporary suspentions and then finally you are kicked off for good. "
Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about this too - I am living proof. I got NO warnings and NO temporary suspensions. I woke up after listing a legal item that the eBay nits thought was illegal and found myself gone, nada, no more eBay.
The thing that really 'bugs' me about my being NARU'd is the fact that I had started a couple of threads on the eBay site about how I was mistreated and I was garnering some support. There are still eBay members over there 'waiting' for me to reply to their questions, but of course, I can't. Hey, maybe that's why they kicked me off - the 'bot probably pushed the wrong button and sent me the wrong email! Could happen, couldn't it ...?
posted on October 5, 2000 07:28:47 AM new
Mboyko, you seem to be garnering support from other suspendees, perhaps you could start your very own club, or better yet, auction site!
posted on October 5, 2000 07:52:26 AM new
Well, I just saw this, I guess I was likely correct (2nd post page 1), which brings me no personal satisfaction, but makes me feel a bit better for having got dumped on by the folks advocating fee avoidance.
Hint for the future: brag about the good stuff, not the bad stuff, that practise tends to bite you in the ass!
posted on October 5, 2000 08:07:07 AM new
From: [email protected] Save Address - Block Sender
To: [email protected] Save Address
Subject: NOTICE: eBay Registration Suspension - Site Interference - [email protected]
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:12:40 PDT
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
We regret to inform you that your eBay account has been suspended due to the
violation of our site policy below:
* Interfering with eBay's site and/or operations - The deliberate use of any
device, software, routine, or activity to interfere or attempt to interfere with
any of eBay's operations.
Due to the suspension of this account, please be advised you are prohibited from
using eBay in any way. This includes the registering of a new account.
Please note that this suspension does not relieve you of your agreed-upon
obligation to pay any fees you may owe to eBay.
Respectfully,
Safeharbor Department
eBay, Inc.
From: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]> Save Address - Block Sender
Reply-To: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
To: Mark Boyko <[email protected]> Save Address
Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Registration Suspension - Site Interference - [email protected] (KMM17390922C0KM)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:10:19 -0700
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to contact SafeHarbor with your appeal.
After review of the information you have provided, it has been
determined that we can not reinstate your account due to the nature of
the policy violation which caused the suspension of your account.
Your account was suspended specifically for fee avoidance. The
following post and credits posted to your account were taken into
consideration when your account was suspended:
posted on September 27, 2000 01:35:39 PM new
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
We all know there are certain items that are sure to sell, and then
there are those items that may or may not sell the first time. In
dealing with iffy items, I have found a good way to save on re listing
fees. If an item fails to sell the first time, and if the number of hits
the item received suggests that it probably won't sell the second time,
then use this technique. Relist it, but completely change the item being
listed. Change the title, category, picture and item description to a
different item you want to try selling. I have found that if you are
getting a 50% sell rate on iffy items, then by relisting a different
item in its place the 2nd time you can increase your sell rate to 75%
without listing fees being as high, because if the different items sells
the second time you don't have to pay another quarter. Then take the
crappy items that don't sell the first time and GET RID OF THEM!
[ edited by mboyko on Sep 27, 2000 01:45 PM ]
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Martina
Quality Assurance Specialist
______________________________
eBay
Your Personal Trading Community (tm)
*******************************************
For our latest announcements, please check:
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml
In order to better serve you, we'd like to occasionally
request feedback on our service. If you would rather
not participate, please click on the link below and send
us an email with the word "REMOVE" in the subject line.
If that does not work, please send an email to the
email address below. Your request will be processed
within 5 days.
Original message follows:
-------------------------
I don't understand. I have not interfered with the operation of eBay's
site. It sounds from this e-mail that you belive I am some sort of
hacker?!
I am just a seller, I have been selling items on eBay, that is all.
Could
this be due to something the auction poster service did,
www.auctionwatch.com ?
From: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]> Save Address - Block Sender
Reply-To: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
To: Mark Boyko <[email protected]> Save Address
Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Registration Suspension - Site Interference - [email protected] (KMM17404560C0KM)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 17:57:21 -0700
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
Hello,
Thank you for your email. I can appreciate how this situation could
prove disconcerting.
Your account will remain suspended, because of the nature of the
offense. This was a deliberate misuse of the eBay relisting policy.
I am sorry that I could not have been of more assistance to you in this
situation.
Regards,
Cooper
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
----------------------------------------------
eBay
Your Personal Trading Community (tm)
====================================================
If Responding, please include a copy of this message
====================================================
*******************************************
For our latest announcements, please check:
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml
In order to better serve you, we'd like to occasionally
request feedback on our service. If you would rather
not participate, please click on the link below and send
us an email with the word "REMOVE" in the subject line.
If that does not work, please send an email to the
email address below. Your request will be processed
within 5 days.
Original message follows:
-------------------------
I wasn't even aware that WAS fee avoidance. I didn't know it was
against
eBay rules. Someone said it may be against eBay's rules, and I haven't
done
it since I heard that. I had no intention to defraud anyone, I thought
it
was a legitimate practice. Why not just revoke the credits on the few
offending auctions? It is such a meager amount, maybe a few dollars?
None
of the auctions that I currently had running that were cancelled last
night
were even launched in that manner.
posted on October 5, 2000 09:08:14 AM newmboyko- Thanks for the actual emails and as a bonus your actual replies.
With that said to check a few folks on this issue.
For all of you wonderful folks with the premise that ebay checked tapes and matched up listings and what have you. We are going to analyze that warped thought process.
1. The original thread started 09/27/2000 the suspension is dated 10/04/2000 we are talking about exactly seven days.
2. We'll grant some leadway that mboyko is such a notorious offender that safeharbor went to work right away on this SERIOUS MATTER
3. So let's say safeharbor within the last 7 days found an offending auction. What part about ebay should state as its evidence the offending auctions and not the Auction Watch Post are you safeharbor/ebay is always right supporters find so difficult to comprehend?
4. Do I need ebay's tapes nope have detailed knowledge of safeharbor's procedures. Which includes a signed diposition of safeharbor's practices from the litigation. You'd be shocked at how much lunacy is actually involved in the process.
5. Now something else bothers me about the emails from safeharbor. They normally tell you how long the suspension is supposed to be for. Since the initial safeharbor person didn't bother to do that. We can respectfully form the conclusion this was another by the seat of the pants suspension.
With those myths put to rest that safeharbor did this complex investigation. They pulled back-up tapes and checked auctions. I say that's baloney, because first off a back-up tape at ebay would take a while to view. Next you need to look at a back-up tape for a specific auction. Unfortunately just using the account records wouldn't be sufficient proof because the post about the technique isn't dated.
Just noticing a relist on the account isn't proof that the item title and picture were changed. You need the actual auction, so you can say that item number, so and so widget, ended on 09/12/2000, was relisted as so and son gadget with a totally different photo and description. That is missing from safeharbor's replies.
Bottom line is this according to original unsigned suspension it is for "Site Interference". Then Martina replies with its "Fee Avoidance", and cites the Auction Watch Post. Then cooper replies there's nothing we can due to the nature of the offense.
Problem is ebay has yet to furnish an auction number where they can show they have proof from the tip given by the Auction Watch Busy Body. Why haven't they cited proof because they have none. The didn't have any proof when we went to court and they don't have any proof now. In fact I am forming the conclusion that they actually think they don't need any proof. And if you think they have any proof you are funny. But then again some of you still wonder why they just walked away from the litigation too. And you take their silence as proof they are right. Naw they can't say anything per the agreement. I beat them to a pulp then and it is obvious that they still haven't learned their lesson about what you can alledge and what you can actually prove.
With stupidity like that in charge. Its no small wonder that buyers are heading from the hills. And ebay is stuck with those people that love them to death so they have to raise fees because they know those people won't object because they beleive ebay does everything right. Can we say you guys are funny and although nothing can be done by mboyko ebay is once again wrong. Heck I am waiting for one of you to send one of my post and they take fly with no proof approach with me again. I really want that cash for character assult. So please one of you make the allegation, please make the allegation.
posted on October 5, 2000 09:08:59 AM newmboyko looks to me like you are wasting your breath with your "appeals". I'm sure that ebay took a look at your feedback, as well as the ones you have left, and decided that YOU are not the kind of seller they want anyway. There's another thread in this forum that is discussing the dearth of buyers. YOU are one reason for that problem. I see that one of your last feedback left was again for unsatisfactory merchandise. And of course you retaliated against this "newbie" bidder with your own neg, instead of just refunding the money for a defective product. Your misuse of the feedback system alone is enough reason for you to be suspended permanently. Oh, yes....I see there was some "advice" here about how to establish a new seller identity and continue selling after you were NARU'd. I was going to tell you to be careful about following that advice, but I've decided not to. Ebay now has "means" to track naru'd sellers who reregister. I won't impart that information, in the hopes that you DO try to reregister under another name. THAT will earn you a suspension for life, which you richly deserve. Your practices hurt ALL other legitimate and honest Ebay sellers by driving away bidders.
posted on October 5, 2000 09:21:38 AM new
eBay doesn't use tapes! When I asked them to check my history of emails, and those of the rat fink that complained about my auction, I was told that they do NOT keep records of this stuff. I think it was eBay "Lizzie" that told me that ...
posted on October 5, 2000 09:22:15 AM new
networker67:
If SafeHarbor did not have concrete proof of the alleged infractions before, they do now. Here is a line directly from mboyko's reply to SafeHarbor: "Why not just revoke the credits on the few offending auctions?"
He not only broke eBay's rules, he advocated doing so.
posted on October 5, 2000 09:32:27 AM newI realize not many here feel any sympathy for mboyco, but I'll tell you what: ANYONE who DOES feel the slightest bit of sympathy really should take a look at this guy's feedback!
His rating is 473
511 positives
16 neutrals
15 negatives.
15 NEGATIVES!? Many users have none or 1 neg after a thousand feedbacks!
This guy is obviously a scumb@g. READ the feedbacks!
MANY of the people he negged in return have only one neg....the one HE gave them! He gave retaliatory negs AND when some buyers were upset with him and only gave him a neutral, HE still NEGGED them back!
So, in addition to committing a suspendable offense with Ebay, he has also quite clearly spoiled the feedback of a number of users, who, except for his neg, had perfect feedback.
As far as him being an otherwise "nice guy", I doubt it. READ his feedback! He's the kind of seller you hope you never end up dealing with.
Ebay is a helluva lot better off without SOB's like this floating around.
Too bad it didn't happen sooner. I'm only sorry they can't make sure he NEVER shows his ugly face on Ebay again.
posted on October 5, 2000 09:33:02 AM new
RB, while eBay may not keep backups of every email sent to them, I assure you they keep full backups of all auctions.
But there would be no need to even go to backup tapes if there was a violation in the last 60 days. And it would be simple to check. Look at all relists. Look at the text of the discriptions. It could be done in minutes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
posted on October 5, 2000 01:00:10 PM new
donnybrook,
Your comments are insulting to another community member and violate the AW Community Guidelines. I am issuing you an informal warning and remind you that if you continue to post in that manner, your posting privileges may be jeopardized.
Here is a link to the CGs - please acquaint yourself with them before you post again.
mboyko, face facts. eBay was within their rights to NARU you. Your just piling up more edvidence aganst yourself, and the majority of the board has been led to believe your in the wrong.
Many people on this board, myself included, have been on eBay for some time. We know the in's and outs of the game. For you to come here and post something like this, eBay was informed.
Who ratted you out? We may never know.
Don't go around blaming people, or calling AW the Gestapo, because you don't know who it was. I could be the one, but I do have some beef with Safeharbor. AW, it it's wisdom, might've alerted eBay to this, but then, they do have policies and such. It could be someone else, or as someone noted, eBay monitors the boards regularly.
If you read AW story on eBay Conspiracies, #4(?) stated that eBay might be monitoring the boards. And, if they put two and two together...
You blantantly came onto here and posted that information. And, you made yourself fair game.
Admit your wrongs. You lost. There is no need for you to continue this. And certainly there is no need to aggrivate the board any further.
As for eBay, either you can claim their loss or goodbye forever.
I will let you decide that one.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 5, 2000 01:34:07 PM newnetworker67:
we are talking about exactly seven days. No, "we're" not. You are presuming that SafeHarbor looked for him to relist an auction after he posted the thread. Since he was talking about a technique he had used in the past, they looked up his past activity.
With those myths put to rest that safeharbor did this complex investigation.
This was not a "complex" investigation. eBay accounts show both auction numbers; and auctions are available for review for at least 60 days. The whole investigation could have been accomplished in just a few minutes.
5. Now something else bothers me about the emails from safeharbor. They normally tell you how long the suspension is supposed to be for....
... except when it is a permanent suspension. Traditionally, then, no such timeframe is given.
Problem is ebay has yet to furnish an auction number where they can show they have proof from the tip given by the Auction Watch Busy Body.
They gave their proof; you just refuse to see it. Plus, he CONFESSED to it, networker.
posted on October 5, 2000 02:12:37 PM new
Glenda - You still miss the point if ebay checked mboyko's account and found an actual auction. The why didn't they cite the auction. Sorry glenda without proof of an auctual auction they have no grounds. And since they haven't furnished any proof and past history reveals that they constantly shoot without any basis in fact or evidence. It is reasonable and prudent to state they have no actual proof except the post.
If they had proof they would have shown mboyko the proof. And sadly all the pom pomming and cheerleading in the world can't change that. If they have proof why not show it? They haven't shown any proof they made an allegation and still with no proof took an action based on a post from auctionwatch that might be a well constructed lie to set them up for a lawsuit over this practice. Who Knows...........
On another note even if the suspension is permanent they tell you it is permanent. And since you are an avid ebay pom pommer I can respectfully state that you have no idea what a safeharbor suspension looks like. Also we are talking about seven days because that is the amount of time ebay has had to investigate this. They can run to the past and mboykos account history but they still only had seven days before rendering a decision. So again you are wrong. So explain something if they found an auction why didn't they just say auction ######## was relisted as ############ with material changes which resulted in a new item as opposed to relisting and this is fee avoidance under the user agreement.
I SAY AGAIN THEY DIDN'T BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T INVESTIGATE. They took the post and rendered a decision. An no matter what you and others say that is wrong. And I pray it never happens to you.
[ edited by networker67 on Oct 5, 2000 02:22 PM ]
posted on October 5, 2000 02:35:42 PM newnetworker67: They can run to the past and mboykos account history but they still only had seven days before rendering a decision. So again you are wrong.
What does how long it may have taken to reach a decision have to do with anything?
So explain something if they found an auction why didn't they just say auction ######## was relisted as ############ with material changes which resulted in a new item as opposed to relisting and this is fee avoidance under the user agreement.
I answered that already: there were possibly so many that it was unnecessary to list them (as in, maybe he did that with ALL unsold reslists). mboyko admitted to a likely dollar amount, do the multiplication.
posted on October 5, 2000 02:45:12 PM new
Here is something for all you eBay Super Sluths. That abhord "Fee Avoidance".
I was doing a serch on 8pc. snack sets as I have a couple I'm going to be listing. I just want to get an idea of what I can expect to get as far as bids go.
I was looking in "completed auction" talk about finding one with FEE AVOIDANCE" written all over it.
Shipping on that item was $15.00 "YIKES"
I've shipped these before so I know for a fact that it only cost between $7 & $9 dollars to ship depending on destination.
Thing of it was it had several bids and went for better money then some others I found that were identical. GO FIGURE!
The person that won the bid was not a newbie had a feedback of 30. The seller had a feedback of 68. I check his other auctions and holy cripes his shipping fees are outragous.
So my point I guess is this that for those who think mboyko is avoiding fees with his shipping charges...his is nothing compared to this seller.
At least mboyko is up front about it on his auction page, he don't surprise the buyer after the fact.
AND in how many threads here have I read "All we want is the seller to be up front about it on there listing page".
Well he did and was so I say that anyone who won the bid then complained and neg'ed him for it has a bigger problem then him!
edited for packer by packer!!
.
Having a BAD hair Day! ...
posted on October 5, 2000 02:50:01 PM new
I just want to point out that there is more than one type of fee avoidance going on in MBoyKos case.
Certainly running $.01 penny auctions and charging inflated shipping fees (see the negatives about that) (and If you don't like it don't bid!! LOL) You will see that eBay has a likely case against him for fee avoidance for that as well. Certainly, more than one of his disgruntled customers could have turned him into eBay for fee avoidance.
"Listing Techniques that circumvent eBay's fee structure
Users may not use systems or techniques to interfere with the proper working of the eBay site, which includes the circumvention of the eBay fees. Some examples include:
Listings with low bid prices, but unreasonably high shipping costs
Dutch Avoidance (see description below)
Selling an item that requires an additional purchase from the seller
Items offered for direct sale (not through eBay)
Catalog sales
Listings with an e-mail address or domain name in the title"
Perhaps a combination of factors led to his "banishment" from eBay, and based on his track record not a minute too soon.
[ edited by igolf on Oct 5, 2000 02:52 PM ]
[ edited by igolf on Oct 5, 2000 03:10 PM ]
posted on October 5, 2000 02:54:19 PM new
Glenda - I hope you keep that high opinion if and when safeharbor targets you or your auctions for whatever reason be it VERO, banners to big, whatever.
myboyko says it was $5.00 so that means we are talking about as few as three auctions or as many as twenty. Since you beleive myboyko's post verbatim and supports ebay acceptance and use of the same as evidence. Why has ebay found it so difficult to state a specific auction. I bet if myboyko asked for a specific auction where they feel this happened. I bet he would get some candy butt excuse why they don't have to state one instead of an actual auction number do you care to take the wager.
Come On you have so much faith that they investigated and rendered a decision based solely on facts and evidence and not his post put some money on it. You won't because you don't for one minute think ebay investigate anything. In fact you don't really care because you think mboyko should have been suspended if not for this for anything anyone decided to use. And since you feel that way you are just hanging around the thread to avoid the truth about ebay and safeharbor from leaking without trying to defend them. Glenda loose the pom poms, ebay was wrong but sadly nothing can be done to correct it.
With that mboyko email safe harbor and ask them what specific auction or auctions do they alledge fee avoidance occurred. And by all means please post that reply with headers here also. I bet you they don't cite any auctions just some lame reason why they don't have too. In fact here's their favorite one for that situation when they know they have no proof.
We will no longer respond to any emails regarding this situation unless you have further evidence to submit for us to review. Or Words To That Effect............
posted on October 5, 2000 03:05:06 PM new
mboyko showed up a couple of weeks ago with a "Look ma, no hands!" up front, in your face attitude. He was reckless and he came crashing down right in front of all of us. I am assuming he is fairly young as he says he has no living expenses so maybe he still lives with his parents or he is being kept by some "heifer" (said in a nice way)
Do I feel sorry for him? No, I don't. I have already stated a couple of times that I do not agree with the way he handles his business or the way he treats his customers. He has lessons to learn and this may be a very difficult one for him.
Should he be banned permanently? I believe everyone should have second chances. A second chance to rip someone else off? No. Maybe he will learn something from this, maybe not.
posted on October 5, 2000 03:31:18 PM newYou won't because you don't for one minute think ebay investigate anything. In fact you don't really care because you think mboyko should have been suspended if not for this for anything anyone decided to use. And since you feel that way you are just hanging around the thread to avoid the truth about ebay and safeharbor from leaking without trying to defend them.
Do not presume to tell me how I feel and think, networker67. Your psychic abilities are lacking in accuracy.
Glenda loose the pom poms, ebay was wrong but sadly nothing can be done to correct it.
The man said he did it - both before the investigation and after the investigation, in emails to them and in posts here. He has said there are auctions that prove he did it. Yet eBay is wrong and (obviously) could find no proof? Bah.
posted on October 5, 2000 03:33:21 PM new
After VERY CAREFULLY Reading ALL past neutral & negative FB posted for mboyko as well as what FB he has left for his buyers certainly leads me to this conclusion.
The glorius workings of KHARMA is at it's finest. Thanking my lucky stars that I never bought anything from this individual,he's perfect ya know---as in never wrong ~ it's not my fault! How all sellers handle problems that at times occur with their buyers definately speaks volumes about sellers integrity etc.
Retaliatory feedback seen left by mboyko is short of horrific, and I would love to see Ebay devise auction page so a sellers FB tally would pop up on bidders acreen before their final bid is placed.
To protect those who are too new to remember to look or for whatever reason, just failed to do so.
Certainly not Ebays claim for why he has been 86'd, however his FB report card (so to speak) I would hope carried weight as well in Ebays decisions even if they did shoot from the hip--I support their decision.
1 more down ~ 1,000's to go!
posted on October 5, 2000 03:45:12 PM new
Glenda - I see you didn't take that bet. I guess that faith is in post only not where it counts the cash flow. You have a great day.
