posted on October 8, 2000 08:21:36 PM
thriftysalez
The word thief might be a bit harsh when used to describe people that take stuff from thrift store donation areas. Wouldn't miss-guided recyclers be a better term?
These people are not dishonest. They are just ethically impaired.
Just having a little fun with political correctness...
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 8, 2000 08:24 PM ]
posted on October 8, 2000 08:28:11 PM
In all fairness jeanyu never did say that s/he takes stuff out of the donation boxes. (I went back and read everything carefully) I know I sound like i'm splitting hairs here, i.e., in the box/out of the box, but nevertheless if an accusation is to be made I think it's only fair to get the facts straight. I can see from some of my past posts in this thread that I am guilty of this mistake also, however, that does'nt mean that what jeanyu is doing is right or ethical.
I posted a question to jeanyu a couple of posts back and i'm still waiting for a reply that should clarify things. to reiterate the question in my previous post, what I said was; Are you saying that you pick up and take stuff that has been donated to thrift stores even though it is not in the donation box? Or do you go thru the trash at thrift stores when you go to the thrift store to make a donation? One is trash and IMHO is ok to take and one is not, which is it?
posted on October 8, 2000 11:44:07 PMYOU ARE ALL MISSING THE BIGGEST POINT THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE:
What jeanyu doesn't seem to understand is that the BIG difference between items donated to benefit the poor and items left out for trash collection, is the INTENT of the former owner!
If the intent of the former owner was to "trash" the item, then that item is up for grabs. However, if the intent was to "donate" the item to benefit the poor, than taking that item IS stealing.
If the previous owner intended for just ANYONE to have the item, they would have left it with the trash, not the Goodwill or thriftstore items.
As far as bring something so you can take something;
posted on October 9, 2000 02:47:27 AM
Not wishing to skirt the issues raised on this thread, but I have a problem with "Thrift Stores".
The items they sell are donated, to help the poor and handicapped, but don't kid yourself. A lot of the better and best stuff donated never makes it to the sales floor. Where does it go? Some of it goes to employee's homes.
Once I was in a thrift store and saw a guitar leaning against the wall in the "Employees Only" back room (I saw it because the door was open). It was a donation. I offered to buy it on the spot. Oh but, it wasn't for sale. I asked if it was a donation and the lady said yes, but it was going to be "rented out". Yeah right, what a line of bull. Someone was taking it home.
posted on October 9, 2000 04:32:07 AM
Maybe it just comes down to this, if you are on someone's else's property, wouldn't you need to ask first? Rather than make your own judgement as to whether the stuff you have spotted is "trash", "donations", or "eligible for recycling"? Seems like the proprietor of the property would have a sign saying "free, help yourself" if that is what they intended for folks to do.
posted on October 9, 2000 04:38:31 AM
Ah yes, loosecannon, the "they're all crooks anyway so in some way I'm serving society (or at least morally justified) in stealing from them" logic. You know, like Robin Hood, right?
Hey - works at tax time; works for shoplifters ("they'll never miss this and anyway their profits are obscene" ); at the office ("they don't pay me enough anyway, the SOBs" ); even works when you're cheating on your spouse ("she doesn't appreciate me" ). So...why not at thrift store drop boxes? A line of reasoning with many, many uses. And so convenient and practical, too.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 9, 2000 04:39 AM ]
posted on October 9, 2000 04:51:02 AM
Just to offer a different perspective regarding those that 'donate their time' to the thrift shops and get the best picks.
Remember that in many cases these people are NOT employees but volunteers. Without them, the groups would never be able to do what they do. To allow them to have first pick is one way fro the charity to get labor and also to avoid the administrative costs of the payroll, taxes etc that goes along with it. It works for the charity.
Many of 'the better' charities have few, but paid staff, full time staff. They also have much better merch control and the 2 in our area have no trouble with 'the dealers'. Why? Cause as a mature 'business' one run FOR PROFIT, and not by and for the feelings of a bunch of dilletantes, they realize that these repeat buyers have deep pockets and buy continuously.
Once again, I feel the need to explain myself after being pricked by one of your many barbs.
I never said taking things from donation bins was OK, or even things that were on the ground around the bin, now did I? Please re-read my post, just to make yourself sure. And I do not help myself to thrift store donations. I wait until they are for sale inside the store.
OK, are we clear on that? Got any more barbs? Let's get them all out, shall we?
I still stand behind my 2:47 post. Many of the crooks are working for the stores.
posted on October 9, 2000 05:23:19 AMNot wishing to skirt the issues raised on this thread, but I have a problem with "Thrift Stores".
That was my opening sentence. Kind of meant "sorry, not exactly on topic". But then again, how does jeanyu's taking things from the ground near the drop box relate to the opening post of salvaging a few things from the dump? I was conveying my feelings and experiences with these establishments, which are not always on the up and up. I know it, you know it, Dr. Tooth nows it.
Why do I get the feeling that I'm stepping on your toes? Getting a little too close to home?
I mentioned it because I wanted to mention it. I am not mitigating anything. I am making no excuses for anyone's actions.
Any chance that will sink in? I doubt it.
You really need to do better that that HCQ. You've got a bone to pick with me? Come up with someting with some substance--if you can.
Can we get back to the topic, folks? If you find yourself at odds with another User, there is always that much talked about, seldom used, ignore button.
posted on October 9, 2000 06:02:11 AM
Hey my whole house is furnished with stuff I found discarded by the side of the road! I'd post a picture but all you could see is bubble wrap and priority boxes so why bother. Seriously, I love to check out what my neighbors throw away. I don't lift lids but if it's by the curb I will grab it if it appeals to me. My relatives are in law enforcement here and they told me that as long as it's outside the box it's legal and that the application of any laws "inside the box" (or can) has more to do with the way I do it. If I don't make a spectacle out of myself digging with a shovel and a pickup truck, making stops at every house on the block, it's cool. Around here, they informed me, the law only gets interested in people that make a mess or take things like bikes that have been left out accidentally but are thought to be trash. So, every Wednesday I cruise the curb.
Regarding Goodwill thievery I guess y'all better put me up against the wall with jeanyju, I used to live across the street from one 10 years ago and after a few drinks on a Friday night we used to sneak across and do a raid on whatever was left by the donation bin by late-night dropper-offers. Another time back in the day my friends and I were dropping something off and we saw this groovy mirrored table that was just sooooooo 70s, we had to have it but they claimed they weren't through pricing it yet. (Yeah right!) We waited until they weren't looking and hauled it into the Volkswagen, then burned rubber out of there. It decorated my friend's dorm room for 3 years.
Despite these disturbing displays of amorality in my youth I am currently a clean living citizen who hasn't stolen in years but still, I am not about to throw stones.
love to y'all (busier than a 1 armed paper hanger these days)
kim
posted on October 9, 2000 06:12:09 AM
The thread begins by describing the joys of dump-scavenging.
jeanyu jumps in by relating the joys of drop-box "shopping," which apparently she finds no different from dump-scavenging.
A hue and cry arises castigating jeanyu for stealing goods intended for a charity shop.
loosecannon then states that charity shops are rife with "unethical" practices - because s/he "wanted to mention it" - not, of course, to bash charity shops in an attempt to defend jeanyu's behavior.
Okay, loosecannon, let's cut to the chase. Just what DO you think of jeanyu's conduct?
brightid868, I'm stunned. Say you did some "joy-riding" way back when. Today you see somebody hot-wiring your neighbor's car. You say nothing, because you're "not about to throw stones"? Hey, you're only young once, right?
posted on October 9, 2000 06:18:07 AMbrighid868, one difference here is that you seem to recognize that it was theft and also are disturbed by the actions you took when you were younger. That is significantly different than flaunting it as if proud of being a thief and acting as if you are entitled to whatever you want to take.
posted on October 9, 2000 06:25:39 AM
I think it's more than crystal clear what I think of jeanyu's conduct.
But for you, I will "clarify", since you seem to need it. I don't approve of anyone taking donations, whether in the drop box, on the ground, or levitating four feet off of the parking lot pavement.
It's not right. It's stealing.
Have I ever stole? Sure, when I was a kid I did some stealing. Did I develope or re-discover some morals and quit? You bet I did. Many many years ago. Did I ever steal donations? No, but stealing is stealing, no matter who/where from.
Is there a person alive who has never stole OR done something else bad, sinful or illegal? Probably not.
As I said earlier, if you have a bone to pick with me, come up with something good. Your attempts to discredit me so far have been of the lame persuasion
posted on October 9, 2000 08:03:56 AM
I personally know people that work for goodwill and salvation army in our town and they ALWAYS take what they want for themselves,family freinds, ect at cheap or NO cost to themselves. The next time you go shopping at their stores look behind the counter and ask if all the nice stuff behind the cashier/counter is for sale. See what they say.
posted on October 9, 2000 08:08:18 AM
How many feet, inches or whatever around the drop box belongs to the drop box. Most drop boxes are in parking lots not belonging to the xxx thrift. How many feet do they rent?
Tattoonana
posted on October 9, 2000 08:27:32 AM
jeanyu: actually, yellowstone is right. There are many people who would, in fact, rather throw away things than let "dishonest" thrift store employees grab things for themselves. Logical? maybe not. Real? yes.
In fact, in a recent thread here on sales tax, you see the same thing. Some buyers refuse to bid on items from sellers who collect sales tax, just on the off chance that they take the sales tax and keep it. This "illogically" penalizes the buyers who may be missing out on some good deals, but its their life and thats how they want to live it.
Tattonana: most thrift stores get the space for their bins donated to them by the people who own the parking lot, I suspect. So technically they don't own any of it in that case.
posted on October 9, 2000 08:50:30 AM
I agree that hotwiring a car and stealing from goodwill parking lots are both stealing--definitely! But I recognize degrees of bad behavior (along a continuum, of, say, "bad" to "very bad" to "worst" to "unforgivable".) As I said in a related thread, I do not believe that a guy selling an ounce of pot to a friend is the equivalent of a billionaire drug dealer (just because they are both selling an illegal drug), and I don't believe a person who doesn't declare a box of cigarettes coming through the Customs gate at Tijuana is in need of the same degree of punishment as harshly as a big time smuggler who pays off guards to bring in a truckload of goods (just because they are both smuggling goods and defrauding the government of revenues). Like most people, I am capable of looking at peoples' actions and making a rational judgement first as to whether they are wrong, such as in this case of stealing, but---and this seems to be the part that disturbs some people----after that, a judgement as to their degree of intensity. The judgements may differ from other person to person but nevertheless I feel that despite the fact that I don't judge things, typically, in black and white, I still am capable of judgement and I can tell one shade of gray from another. Such as the fact that I can regard stealing from a Goodwill donation box as a minor wrong and still genuinely feel that that hotwiring a car is *very* wrong (and robbing a person at gunpoint even more wrong.) I'm not sure why it is necessary to judge all wrong actions as the same. Two wrongs don't make a right but one of the wrongs can be bad and the other can be much worse.
Just a thought---most people can tell one wrong from another greater wrong, but they think *other* people can't! I assume most of them can---simce most of us don't rob banks or murder yet many still commit minor crimes like not reporting the occasional extra this or that on taxes, not returning overpayments of change in stores, etc. And before I get any "I always do XXXX" replies, let me say that, I know that such people exist already because as a matter of fact, I too report all my income and I return change----but I don't feel that those who *don't* have a complete lack of moral fiber.
posted on October 9, 2000 08:59:33 AM
Very off-topic (but, so what)...
Having just returned from a cruise to Mexico I can acurately state that you are allowed to import two cartons of cigarettes duty free. Also, any goods actually manufactured in Mexico are duty free thanks to NAFTA.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:20:49 AM
I was quite hesitant to post here as the only result of posting opinions on this board seem to be insults and flames and rudeness. However, at the risk of incurring rational (yeah right) wrath of the "in-crowd" I'd like to add my .02 cents. I often help my friends clean out the homes of their elderly relatives that have passed on. After the family has selected the items they want to keep, we cart it all to the Salvation Army or Goodwill boxes. I hate to disallusion the greedy thrift store owners, but WE DON'T CARE WHO GETS IT EVENTUALLY - we consider the items TRASH. Putting it into or nearby the donation boxes is a heck of a lot easier than bringing it to the dump or paying money to have someone haul it away. If we leave it on the outside of the boxes, then it is FAIR GAME for all. If I want to "help" these supposedly needy organizations I'll give them a direct cash donation. Trash will always be trash - open to the pickers. I'll not feel bad for seeing or rooting through and taking donated items because they were perceived as UNVALUABLE to the original owner and are trash.
BTW, I've recently gone into some thrift stores to furnish a college kids' room - and was appalled at the prices these thrift stores are charging for items. I come with willing cash in hand - but I wouldn't pay their almost-new prices - no way!
It used to be that bargains could be had at the stores but no more. Seems that the employees and owners have all gotten the eBay bug and charge WAY too much for trash. "I saw this on eBay, so it must be valuable." So their paperbacks books are $6.50 just becase it's old. Ridiculous.
Don't blow someone up because they look at a particular practice differently than you. They are just different -- not wrong!
posted on October 9, 2000 09:28:37 AM
I don't know if I'm one of the "in crowd" or not, but let me just say that I agree with you...that if you consider your donation "trash", then it makes sense that you don't care who gets it.
I suspect that many/most people who donate to goodwill do so under the thought that they are actually helping people who need help, and thus care very much about who gets the stuff. Where I live, for example, the closest landfill is only 2 miles away, but the closest thrift store is over 20, so its definitely a contribution on my part in terms of time, gas, etc., to take the items specifically to the thrift store.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:32:03 AMI was quite hesitant to post here as the only result of posting opinions on this board seem to be insults and flames and rudeness. However, at the risk of incurring rational (yeah right) wrath of the "in-crowd" I'd like to add my .02 cents.
Yes, there's a fair example of that right in your post.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:44:38 AM
Let me restate: If it is ok to do, you should be able to do it durring the day infront of the goodwill staff. If you have to do it under the cover of darkeness or when no-one is looking then you know it is the wrong thing to do. Stop fooling yourselves!
The arguement that people should look the other way when it is just a small thing like taking Goodwill donations is quite illogical. If that is the case, it shouldn't be a big deal to shoplift as long as it is just small inexpensive things that people will probably never miss anyway.
People donate (give) this stuff to a charity. No matter where the item is (inside or outside of the collection box)it still belongs to the charity for whom it was intended.
I can't believe some of the logic I am seeing here.
Seriously, I love to check out what my neighbors throw away. I don't lift lids but if it's by the curb I will grab it if it appeals to me. My relatives are in law enforcement here and they told me that as long as it's outside the box it's legal and that the application of any laws "inside the box" (or can) has more to do with the way I do it. If I don't make a spectacle out of myself digging with a shovel and a pickup truck, making stops at every house on the block, it's cool. Around here, they informed me, the law only gets interested in people that make a mess or take things like bikes that have been left out accidentally but are thought to be trash. So, every Wednesday I cruise the curb.