posted on August 31, 2005 03:51:28 PM
Ahh... the hypocrites continue to gab it up here, manipulating the very words I put out there so you prove my point each and every time.
Anyone with just a hair of intelligence is able to see right through it, and of course, Linda has managed to steer the neocon lies away from the topic of discussion because her only ammo in her losing cause is, "quit calling me names, i'm gonna cry".
posted on August 31, 2005 03:51:58 PM
ok back on topic people!
seriously, in my own opinion, I can see taking food water, diapers formula, MAYBE clothes, but when I saw ON CNN some guys with carts full of TV's PC's and Stereo equipment.....well that is wrong.
Redistribution of Wealth???
No, its stealing plain and simple.
The Atty General of LA even said, that he saw nothing wrong with food and water being taken, but the rest is wrong.
posted on August 31, 2005 04:01:04 PM
LOL...rusty, don't think so. No crying going on with me. Doesn't even make me look back....lets other see when you can't win an argument you resort to name calling and insults. I don't have a problem pointing that out each time you do it.
I enjoy each and every opportunity you give me to point our how you lie and insult people when they don't march to your false statements.
Don't kid yourself.
You give yourself way too much credibility when you think your 'flaming' bothers me. Just shows everyone your real character.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
Dbl and Fenix Here is a link to a page that has a link to the video of that poor man describing the loss of his wife (in the second paragraph.) You mentioned it on the first page of this thread.
posted on August 31, 2005 07:30:53 PM
thanks helen, for posting that link. Like i said earlier, I am not sure I want to read it.
It is getting more and more horrid as each day goes on! I dont know what they are going to do. Its going to take a very long time to rebuilt that place, or so it would appear.
I saw a bunch of NYC Firemen (who when they lost alot of their precint and their beloved firetruck during 9/11, the state of Louisansa sent them a new fire engine with a plaque that read, "the spirit of Lousisana" on it) - they are going down there to help, too. So, so many people reaching out to help is at least encouraging.
posted on August 31, 2005 08:38:22 PM
last nite they showed a police woman trying on shoes at walmart while the looters looted.
also they cant shoot as the bodies will rot in water.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
I'm just curious, rustygumbo, can you provide any hard data on the number of guardsman and equipment available pre-Iraq and the numbers now? Because its curious that the national guard response seems to be fairly comphrensive and strong. But then again, facts might get in the way of a good emotional arguement.
posted on September 1, 2005 12:57:17 PM
MSNBC showed close up two female city cops doing their " shopping" in a Walmart along with the rest of the looters. One was even pushing a shopping cart filling it up. One even posed for the cameras and spoke to the newscaster. Wonder when it is all over if the Police force will keep her.
buyhigh
posted on September 1, 2005 01:20:25 PM
Buy - They were saying last night that some fficers were sent to stores to pick up supplies needed by members of the force which they are authorized to do during this type of emergency.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 1, 2005 02:38:19 PM
Linda- "And I believe those city officials should be held accountable for most of this destruction.
It's been noted for years and years that their levees were sinking and about all the sections that were beginning to fail. And that's exactly why they're experiencing the total destruction they are...because the levees gave way and all that water came flooding in. That is the responsibility of the elected officials in that state to maintain that protection and they didn't."
I would have to actually agree that those who are responsible for the added destruction because of the levees should be held accountable... That would be Bush and the Republican Congress though, not local officials like Linduh wants you to believe.
By Andrew Martin and and Andrew Zajac
Washington bureau
Published August 31, 2005, 10:24 PM CDT
WASHINGTON -- Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.
The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.
For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).
Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.
Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.
Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.
"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.
A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. "They've never put enough money in to complete it," Parker said. He complained that the corps' budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren't considered "sexy."
"Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans," Parker said. "Ask them, `Do they think it's pork?' "
Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn't have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.
"The fact that they weren't that high was a result of lack of funding," he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal--where one of the breaches occurred--was 4 feet lower than the rest. "I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something's got to give."
Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the budget cutbacks.
Fred Caver, who retired in June as the corps' deputy director of civil works, said there is always competition for funding and "you're never going to get everything you want."
But he said a reluctance to invest in unglamorous public works projects and especially heavy demands on the budget, from the war in Iraq and entitlement programs, have added to the difficulty in securing funding for corps projects.
Scott Milburn, a spokesman for the White House Office of Management and Budget, declined to comment about the specific allegations regarding funding for hurricane-related projects in Louisiana. However, he said, "The president signed into law a $100 million increase for the corps for the current fiscal year compared to the previous year's level."
Historically, New Orleans has built bigger and more ambitious levees every time the city floods, Suhayda said.
"They would live with the conditions that they had until there was an event," he said. The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 prompted a major upgrade to the levees around New Orleans, he said. The levees were upgraded again to handle a Category 3 storm after Hurricane Betsy hit New Orleans in 1965.
In the years since then, local officials have warned that a catastrophic storm was inevitable and sought more funding to improve the area's hurricane preparedness to handle larger storms. In July 2004, for instance, federal, state and local officials staged a simulation in which a "Hurricane Pam" slammed into New Orleans with 120 m.p.h. winds and created havoc that was eerily similar to that of Hurricane Katrina, including widespread building damage and death.
"Since 1995, we've been replaying these scenarios out in various degrees. As we got together to do these, the people in the parishes would say, `Make them as bad as possible so we can get some attention,' " said Suhayda, who participated in the Hurricane Pam exercises.
"Unfortunately, our way for dealing with these disasters is after the fact," he said.
J. David Rogers, chairman of the geological engineering department at the University of Missouri-Rolla, said politicians have refused to spend money to improve the levees to handle a Category 5 storm because of the low probability of such a storm occurring.
"The politicians were convinced that they had their 100-year event with [Hurricane] Camille," he said, referring to the Category 5 storm in 1969 that obliterated a large swath of the Gulf Coast. "The fact that we had a big event 20 years ago, or we dodged one last year, doesn't mean it's not going to happen tomorrow."
While corps officials were trying to determine the cause of the levee breaches, they said they believed it was caused by water lapping over the top of the levees, which eroded the back side and eventually caused them to give way.
There are at least three major breaches of 200 to 300 feet long, corps officials said. Once the corps plugs the leaks, with huge bags of sand and gravel dropped by helicopters, it will begin repairing and replacing pumps in the city to remove the water.
Estimates of how long it will take to pump out the water varied from several weeks to several months, depending on which corps official was asked.
The Corps of Engineers has been working on two flood-control projects in New Orleans and is awaiting approval of a third, according to Caver, the former corps officials.
The Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Protection Project, begun in 1965, originally was to include a movable barrier on the eastern edge of the lake to block a tidal surge during a hurricane. Planners opted for a cheaper, less desirable alternative of building up levees to keep the lake from spilling into the city, Caver said.
A second project, the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, aims to improve water drainage within New Orleans. It required hundreds of millions of dollars but has been funded around $50 million a year, Caver said.
A third project, the Louisiana Coastal Area Ecosystem Restoration Project, remains in a planning stage. It aims to counter the effects of erosion on the state's coastline for a better buffer against storm surges. A huge swath of Louisiana coastline has disappeared, in part because of manmade dikes, canals and levees.
posted on September 1, 2005 02:52:41 PM
See Linda, you thought they couldn't possibly say "George Bush & the 'publicans did it!"
BTW
Walmart volunteered any material that could help the effort. The police were there because Walmart requested them so that the place wouldn't have the guns, jewelry, appliances, and building fixtures stolen.
The cops were not supposed to be trying on running shoes for a correct fit.
posted on September 1, 2005 04:26:14 PMThat would be Bush and the Republican Congress though
But of course it would. I think its quite clear that this problem only came to light recently (within, say, the time of the current administration) and that local officials and local government have been totally powerless to work on the problem. In fact, there are no problems in any state which can be solved locally. The federal government, and specifically George Bush, must be held accountable to solve every problem in the nation. And I tell ya, if Bush doesn't get his butt to my neighborhood to deal with the insect problem we're having, I'm not gonna be happy!
By the way Rustygumbo, made any headway on the national guard data?
posted on September 1, 2005 04:27:15 PM
In the case of the NBC newscast, the 2 police were not there picking up supplies for the force nor were they guarding the place. The store was filled with looters with kids riding stolen store bicycles through the aisles. From the conversation between the policewoman and the newscaster, it was obvious they were just there helping themselves. The newscaster made a commentary when outside the store to that effect.
buyhigh
posted on September 1, 2005 06:39:57 PM
You're correct, desquirrel, I was wrong.
I really thought an act of mother nature couldn't be blamed on this President.
------
But leave it to rusty to blame this problem, which his article notes started in 1962 and has been a continuing one even through both the carter and clinton administrations, to put the FULL blame on this President. Gee, I wonder why? LOL
What was the response of the man responsible for one of the most damaging debacles in the history of modern Iraq? Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said,
"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things," Rumsfeld said . . . Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. "Stuff happens," Rumsfeld said.
posted on September 4, 2005 09:47:21 AM
I think "corrupt" covers the crimes of large corporations that are looting the American taxpayer.
Might be "legal" looting but it's on a much grander scale than walking off with a TV.
You are a neocon..therefore you think only poor people loot and choose to ignore how the rich loot, choose to ignore how the American taxpayer was looted by Halliburton and others in Iraq.
There's no argument, you choose to see only what you want.
posted on September 4, 2005 09:56:45 AM
You pose nothing but communistic rhetoric, how can you discuss anything when you have already made up your mind and convicted people without any proof.
You don't offer up anything but false claims, I am not a neocon but then again it is easier for you to label people that don't fall lock step into your world.
I am far more moderate center than you will ever be. You need to step from the left and have a look at the real world.
Communism/Socialism are failed concepts. Why do you cling to support them?
posted on September 4, 2005 10:17:50 AM
There you go, labeling everyone you don't agree with as a communist:
Really ronnie?,you really don't believe the richest 2% of the people in this country got a huge tax break ? Really! Well, call one, like Oprah or some oil exec and they'll tell you.
You really don't believe corporations have off-shore addresses so they don't have to pay taxes? Really! You poor naive, blind, head up yourassneocon.
Well, if this blindness makes you feel better , you go right ahead....
IF communism could get rid of these scams I would quickly join the party.
posted on September 4, 2005 10:23:16 AM
I didn't label you as a communist, I pointed out that you seem to support those ideologies and certainly most of your posts are sprinkled with communistic rhetoric.
I would be curious as to how you see yourself on the political scale.
posted on September 4, 2005 10:59:07 AM
I see myself as obviously much more knowledgeable about what is going on in the real world than you are.
I see you as unable to respond to the points I've made.
How do you see corporations paying their fair share of taxes as "communistic"?
How do you see Halliburton as having to account for the what they did with the tax money they were given as "communistic"?
How do you see the ultra rich getting huge tax breaks as "communistic"?.....oh, I see your point there...guess we do have a little communism going on in America...pardon me.
posted on September 4, 2005 11:11:04 AM
You have made no points, only baseless allegations and opinions.
But I will answer them anyway, so tell me all about the "real" world based on your vast knowledge of it. I have already seen your lack of knowledge in military operations,so I would be interested in seeing the rest.
Corporations should not be required to pay any taxes, they provide people jobs. They should have the money available to reinvest in themselves.
No only communistic ideologies would suggest that these entities pay taxes, not true capitalists.
That top 2% is the the true backbone of America and are actually a group most Americans strive to belong to. The economy does not truly run on my wages or yours you need to think where the money actually comes from for new business.
