posted on September 2, 2005 03:39:39 PM new
No, fenix, I, along with many, many other people across America don't understand.
There was time , there could've been busses and transportation of every description sent in before hand. There is NOW....why not then?
Fenix, we had warning of this impending disaster and look at the disorganized mess that resulted. We should all ask ourselves what would happen if we received a "surprise" disaster of any type.
And anyone describing this disaster as "media hype" should be driven down to the south and forced to rescue people, to see first hand what these people are going through.......what horror and loss they are experiencing.
I think a few people should get out of here and listen to the radio, watch TV or get online and read something that isn't Fux News. Some here seem terribly naive about what is really happening....sheesh even Dumbo Bush admitted "it's not acceptable".......finally.
posted on September 2, 2005 03:40:03 PM new
BTW - WHEW! I'm pooped. I called a friend this morning whose family is in Mississppi to see if they had any word on them. They finally talked to them last night and found out that their house is gone but they are OK and staying at a shelter and my friend was going to go pick them up so me and a few other absconded their rental van while they wrapped up business here and hit the dollar stores.
They just left on their journey in a van filled with all of the essentials we could round up to leave at the shelter in thanks for taking care of the family.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 2, 2005 03:48:50 PM new
MIngo - New Orleans has tons of schools buses and public transporation busses. there was no reason to believe that others from other states would be needed. The problem is that all of their busses are now sitting under water and so any plan that was in place was wiped out. This is an unprecedented event - I don't get why you don't understand this.
This whole thing has been horrible and if you were complaining about why it took 4 days after the unpresedented event, I could totally concur but I don't understand why you are complaining that they were not there 3 days before. Remember, the hurricane did not hit until Monday and Monday afternoon it looked like New Orleans had dodged the bullet. Sure there were home destroyed and power was out but that is par for the course and everything was in place to start dealing with it. It wasn't until Tuesday that the flooding and the real horror story began.
BTW - I'm not sure why I should not be on my computer - my TV is three feet from my computer monitor and as for trying to trounce Fox coverage... you know, their commentators may drive me insane but the three guys that have been there on the scene have done a great job and they are just as frustrated as anyone else.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Sep 2, 2005 03:55 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2005 04:12:47 PM new
fenix, I'm sorry you're confused and don't understand the situation. It may be an unprecedented event but NOT one that came without warning.
The Mayor of New Orleans ordered the evacuation of the city two days before the storm was due to hit. The busses were NOT sitting underwater then. They should have been used to pick up people who had no way out of the city.
Sorry, fenix, but even bushy finally admitted things didn't go well....somebody must've told him. Surely you're smarter than he.
And you say:
""BTW - I'm not sure why I should not be on my computer - my TV is three feet from my computer monitor and as for trying to trounce Fox coverage... you know, their commentators may drive me insane but the three guys that have been there on the scene have done a great job and they are just as frustrated as anyone else."""
Sorry, I just thought with your apparent lack of knowledge about the situation you were getting your only information from Dble, Ron, and others here.
posted on September 2, 2005 04:15:26 PM new
And, going back farther , it would've been beneficial to have had FULL funding for levee improvement.....BUSH CUT THE FUNDING!
posted on September 2, 2005 04:21:31 PM new
Mingo - don't be a complete ass.
If you incapable of telling the difference between pre hurricane actions and post flood actions there really is no need to go further with the discussion. You don't even seem to understand your own complaint.
If you are upset that that public tranportation was not used to evacuate prior to the hurricane, then why do you think it was needed from other states? It was available within the state, just not utilized.
You need to to take a minute and get away from the computer and the TV and organize your arguement.
I know that you love to twist things to make them fit your personal view but what Bush was complaining about was the POST FLOOD actions and I think everyone but the head in clouds director of FEMA agrees that it's been piss poor and frankly, embarassing.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 2, 2005 04:26:25 PM new
Gee, fenix, you sound so easily confused when you say,"If you are upset that that public tranportation was not used to evacuate prior to the hurricane, then why do you think it was needed from other states? It was available within the state, just not utilized. ""
Show me WHERE I mentioned which state help should come from....poor old thing....I never did, you silly asshol;
It's quite sad that you can't comprehend the need to evacuate people BEFORE a disaster strikes....seems logical to most people.
posted on September 2, 2005 04:40:39 PM new
Mingo - lets go thru this slowly.... I mentioned that busses were coming in from other states today, you came back asking why they were not there on Saturday and Sunday. I asked if you really did not understand why busses from other states were not sitting in Louisianna over the weekend waiting for a hurricane and you said no, you do not understand. If your only point is that public transportation should have been sent into poorer areas to facilitate evacuation, you are behind the game. We already had that discussion last night and everyone agrees.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 2, 2005 04:53:00 PM new
Hindsight is 20/20. The issue shouldn't be what should we have done, but what can we do now? What's done is done. It's tragic and hopefully lessons will be learned from the mistakes made. At issue now should be what can be done to assist the refugees (I hate that work when talking about the USA) in getting food, water and shelter faster than they've been getting it? What can we do to prepare ourselves should disaster strike where we live? They were ill prepared, lax in their preparedness. There are things we can do ourselves to prevent this from happening again.
How prepared are any of you? Do you have disaster kits handy? Do you know your city's evacuation plan? Does it even have one? I know that I'm not prepared, but I will be.
What if this had been a terrorist attack? Holy crap, talk about not ready for anything. I thought that's what we were supposed to be doing - preparing for the worse case scenerio.
Even donating $5 helps. Prayers help. We have some refugees coming here to Cleveland and Cleveland is prepared for them. Babies are being taken to Rainbow Babies hospital here. In fact, the City of Cleveland has already enrolled some of the refugee children into the schools and clothing companies here are donating clothing to them and their families. Start a neighborhood clothing drive. They're going to need clothing. Every little bit helps.
posted on September 2, 2005 05:27:13 PM new
Great twisting fenix! You ARE good
Nice the way you twisted my words to include a question of which states the busses came from when I had never mentioned that and then you expertly twisted it back again when I proved you to be mistaken about what I said.! Excellent!
Then you say:
"If your only point is that public transportation should have been sent into poorer areas to facilitate evacuation, you are behind the game. We already had that discussion last night and everyone agrees."
Oh, I didn't know you were the monitor here telling people what and when the correct time to post is.!
I shall certainly take all my posting cues from you
posted on September 2, 2005 05:32:01 PM new
That would probably make life much more pleasant for all
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 2, 2005 06:16:01 PM new
""That would probably make life much more pleasant for all""
Yes, I only post here to make things pleasant for all as do you, I'm sure. And I'm sure it's quite unpleasant for you to be shown how wrong you are at times.
It's so telling that you now speak for "all"...just like lindaKKK. I hope your mind hasn't deteriorated to that low level so soon.
posted on September 2, 2005 07:07:34 PM newit would've been beneficial to have had FULL funding for levee improvement
Really? Benecifial to whom? Since I'm sure you've actually researched the levee project (like peepa has) I assume it doesn't come as a surprise to you that even before budget cuts, the levee improvements were not scheduled to be completed until somewhere between 2010 and 2015. So in the context of the present disaster, care to explain how full funding would have been beneficial?
posted on September 4, 2005 06:36:41 PM new
Perhaps New Orleans should have had an evacuation plan put together - maybe, like - YEARS AGO! They are below sea level they have a large population of poor. Maybe they should have had a plan for evacuation for each category of hurricanes.
This will not happen to me. I have worked my butt off to make sure it does not happen to me. I have insurance, I have transportation, I have an income, I have worked for 20 years to make sure that I can take any and all steps to avoid this happening to me. (knocking on wood...)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on September 4, 2005 07:15:11 PM new
It all boils down to, we all have to rely on... ourselves. We have to think ahead, whether its a hurricane, or your own financial future, its all up to you.
Like Caroline in the above post.
This is about your future, If your an adult, then everyone has to take responsibiltiy for it, and not depend on a gov't, other people, family whatever.
Most people cannot survive on social security now, the way SS has been run since its inception. You have to have a back up.
We are starting small. We are going to look at property on our vacation in 2 weeks. Over the mountains and in the eastern part of the state.
Its way more inexpensive over there, and if we can swing another piece of real estate, we will get it. Then probably move there for good.
posted on September 4, 2005 07:24:58 PM new
The purpose of government is to improve the lives of its citizens. Our government failed at every level to handle this national disaster.
posted on September 4, 2005 07:43:40 PM new
Whoever said the words below do not understand or care about their old,poor and sick FELLOW AMERICANS. The words below come from a empty very cold hearts. I sure hope the people who can write these kind of words have a change of heart before they die. If not they will surely burn in Hell.
"It all boils down to, we all have to rely on... ourselves. We have to think ahead, whether its a hurricane, or your own financial future, its all up to you."
"This is about your future, If your an adult, then everyone has to take responsibiltiy for it, and not depend on a gov't, other people, family whatever."
THESE ARE WORDS THAT FUEL THIS GOVERNMENTS CLASS WAR.
posted on September 4, 2005 07:51:33 PM new "This will not happen to me. I have worked my butt off to make sure it does not happen to me. I have insurance, I have transportation, I have an income, I have worked for 20 years to make sure that I can take any and all steps to avoid this happening to me. (knocking on wood...)
That's all good, Caroline...But don't think that by successfully achieving those goals that a disaster cannot affect you. A terrorist attack, for example could affect anyone regardless of how much "personal responsibility" they might have. And Homeland Security and FEMA might perform just as incompetently as they are right now.
posted on September 4, 2005 09:38:08 PM new
I have to jump in with my thoughts... I couldn't do it before because of the wrath of Katrina. Only had the electricity restored this afternoon.
After a hellish 14 hours of 70mph sustained winds with gusts of 100 to 120 mph with 6 days of no electricity, 3 days with no water and sporadic phone service, Its great to be here. All my family is safe and for that, I am blessed. I have a brother and 3 other relatives who live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. My brother's house now consists of a slab and some studs, another has a tree through what is left of the roof and various other damages. They have their lives, they are blessed.
Disaster Preparedness:
1. It is a personal responsibility to have non-perishable food, water supplies for people and pets, medicines, batteries, flashlights, radio, etc. for at least 3 days. This needs to be a kit, kept ready at all times. If you are evacuating take the items with you. edited to add: shelters have basic and sometimes crude amenities, they aren't hotels. You will need your own supplies of food and water at a shelter until it get's organized.
2. If an evacuation order is given and not heeded you damn sure need to have number 1 at the ready. We don't have GPS implants yet so that rescue workers can zero in where a pocket of humanity may be needing help. Communication systems will be horrible at best initially. That's why YOU have to be prepared to surrive at least the first 3 days.
We had 36 to 48 hours advance notice of this storm. The course changed from the Florida panhandle to Louisiana and Mississippi costal areas on Friday night around 10pm.
3. Each city, Each county and Each state has a disaster preparedness plan. KNOW IT! Know what your community, city and county will do in an emergency. Know evacuation routes, designated fallout shelters, etc.
I don't know what happened with New Orleans' disaster preparedness plan and the response of the NO Mayor. It also seems the Gov of LA was a little slow in picking up and running with the ball when the NO Mayor fumbled.
There is a tier system for calling in National Guard and Martial Law which rests with local and state officials before going to the Federal level. Screaming "Where are the troops?" on TV isn't going to get them there any faster if the Mayor had not already requested them of the Gov of the state.
At the time of Katrina both Mississippi and Lousiana had 70 to 75% of their National Guard resources available to be utilized within the state.
Basically remember: You are on your own for the first 3 days of disaster. Be prepared, act accordingly and if you are told to evacuate and are not willing or unable know where the shelters are in your community and get there. Things can be replaced and rebuilt, Lives can't.
posted on September 4, 2005 09:46:12 PM new
bigpeepa, we depend on ourselves FIRST so we can take care of our grandchildren and our parents. (Parent who is in his 80's) He will be our responsiblity right next to our children and grandchildren.
If faced with a disaster we won't wait for relief, days on end
Chimpchamp, I am so glad you and your family have made it through this! This must have been the biggest test of your life.
posted on September 4, 2005 10:05:35 PM new
Thank you NearTheSea.
It certainly was the worst hurricane or natural disaster I have ever experienced.
I am 125 miles north of the MS gulf coast and New Orleans. I have been through the remenants of hurricanes Betsy in '65 and Camille in '69. They were nothing compared to Katrina.
[ edited by chimpchamp on Sep 4, 2005 10:10 PM ]
posted on September 4, 2005 10:37:17 PM new
chimpchamp, very good information on Disaster Preparedness. It is a shame that most on these threads don't understand it.
I'm very glad everything is OK with your family. Emergency management is the key to any disaster. You are right it starts with County and City leadership to the State Governor. Every person on these treads should know it and how it works. F.E.M.A is only as good as the Area, State plan and how and when it is put in place.
posted on September 4, 2005 11:12:50 PM new
But Chimpchamp, the government should come in and pick up the pieces and fill in the blanks when individuals do not have an emergency plan and when the Mayor screams that the President is having too many press conferences then he should drop what he's doing and get the troops on the road, in the air and on the sea to come in and take care of the needs of the people, be they ready for it or not, just send what you have when it's screamed for.
Speaking of the troops, the President should know before a hurricane strikes how severe it's going to be and have the troops with all the necessary equipment in place and at the ready to take care of the problem because afterall he is the President and we all know that Presidents are supposed to be super human and have the ability to peer into their Presidential crystal balls and see pending disasters before they happen and how severe they will be.
Presidents are/were elected to make the lives of the citizens better and when disasters occur their pre disaster actions tell how much they really care about their job when a disaster does occur.
Individuals should not be held accountable for their own actions or expected to be smart enough to heed warnings of impending disasters and evacuate or go to disaster shelters because the government can and should do the thinking for them.
Playing devils advocate here, or better yet just talking like a Democrat.
posted on September 4, 2005 11:35:50 PM new
It falls on deaf ears. Do you think the whack pack will believe somebody involved rather than some beloved web site?
While many have mentioned it is the governor who has to call to mobilize the national guard, the other thing is that you just don't call them like you cancel cop's vacations. And you don't call Monday and send them back Wed if nothing happens. These guys have to report to assembly areas. Then they have to go to Sears and order some trucks that can travel under water.
Too bad Congress cut the $$ for the project. But of course construction had to begin even BEFORE Clinton was president to have been completed.
posted on September 5, 2005 06:41:07 AM new
chimpchamp - I'm extremely happy to hear you and your family survived through what has to be an extremely tough time for everyone involved.
I appreciate you sharing with us your personal experiece and wish you and yours only the best as you try to put your lives back together.
posted on September 5, 2005 08:32:15 AM new
Hey all you "self-reliant" neocons ...why aren't YOU in Iraq fighting YOUR war ?
Lazy goofs...just letting the government and others fight YOUR war...what a hand-out....can't YOU do ANYTHING for yourselves?
Oh, and please post the addresses of all the public buildings you've built with your own hands, all the roads and freeways YOU poured the concrete for, all the fires YOU put out, all the criminals YOU arrested, let us know all the laws YOU passed to protect us...
C'mon, get off your lazy butts , quit living off the work of others and become more self-reliant.
posted on September 5, 2005 02:01:42 PM new
So you're saying if you can't personally fight a war or build a highway that there's no point in stashing a few jugs of water in your closet just in case?
Your logic looks a little shaky there, Mingo.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
Caroline