posted on September 2, 2005 05:33:30 PM new
When the looting started I would have mowed them down to their sock tops,and it wouldn't have been a problem.
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Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on September 2, 2005 05:58:20 PM new
I don't know, Ronnie. What if something like this happened in Washington. Would it take this long to help the people?
posted on September 2, 2005 06:14:38 PM new
I agree.
The President should not have gone there until it was "secure" enough, no matter who was president. I can assure you he was being updated with the latest information. He should have spoken to the American people sooner. Hurricane on Monday. Flooding on Tuesday. Spoke on Wednesday. Flew over on Thursday. Visited on Friday.
This was FEMA's ball to drop...and I believe they did drop it.
If they had wanted to bus the poor out to avoid this mess, what city would have taken them in? With 24 hours notice, no less. My guess is none. Most cities have enough poor and would not want another 20,000 or more, taxing their already dwindling resources. (I'm talking about before the hurricane and flooding.)
The only thing I think I would have done differently is I would have spoken with the American people daily from the ranch, until I could get back to DC.
posted on September 2, 2005 06:33:45 PM newThe only thing I think I would have done differently is I would have spoken with the American people daily from the ranch, until I could get back to DC.
My God Woman, what are you saying. Don't you know that, that would have po'd gotree and Mr. gumbo off so much that we would have never heard the end of it.
Think before you post something like that again, sheesh.
posted on September 2, 2005 06:50:16 PM new
The biggest mistake I see is the failure to recognize the complete incomptence of state officials, specifically the governor and mayor, to mobilize first responders. For New Orleans not to have a comphrensive and workable plan to put into action with this disaster boggles the mind. If this kind of disaster took place in Sioux City Iowa you could excuse the lack of preparedness but not in a city built below sea level on the Gulf coast.
posted on September 2, 2005 08:53:54 PM new
If I was President. Well, be constantly in touch with both the Gov of LA and the Mayor of New Orleans.
Actually the Gov should have been more on the ball and been in constant communications with the Federal gov't. The mayor should have been constantly in touch with the Gov.
posted on September 2, 2005 11:00:50 PM new
Good, Mingotree! That "of" business makes me nuts. "What would you HAVE done?" "What I WOULD'VE done" etc. My 8th-grade English students had this drilled into them.
[ edited by Roadsmith on Sep 2, 2005 11:01 PM ]
posted on September 3, 2005 05:23:27 AM new
I can see some of the more prominent armchair quarterbacks can't answer the question only comment on grammar.
"Of" "have" who really cares in the grand scheme of things?
posted on September 3, 2005 05:29:27 AM newAren't you the same people that support ebonics?
Not me, not ever...
On topic, I don't know what I would have done. It's something so utterly foreign it's hard to know what I'd actually do.
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Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
posted on September 3, 2005 05:47:05 AM newI always heard if you couldn't add anything to the discussion just attack the grammar, now I see it in action how sweet.
I've always heard; if you can't add anything to the discussion, just attack the grammar. Now I see it in action, how sweet.
There now, that's better.
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Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
posted on September 3, 2005 06:05:59 AM new
Ok Ronnie you want an answer.
I wouldn't have stayed on vacation like Bush and DICK Cheney. I wouldn't have seen a Broadway play and shopped for shoes like Condasleeza.
I would've been paying attention to a potential disaster in the country that was placed in my care.
I would've demanded to know what the preparations were AND IMPROVED ON THEM when I saw they were terribly inadequate.
I wouldn't have shown my total non-concern for a potential loss of lives by cutting funding for work on the levees.
I would give money to OUR people in need as easily and quickly as money is dumped willy nilly into Iraq .
I would tell the oil and lumber barons that they have enough money and to LOWER their prices or be jailed for treason.
I would immediately issue a statement acknowledging the plight of the victims, a statement with a personal response like how sorry I am for their suffering and loss.....not impersonal statements like "we will rebuild"...or something else equally stupid.
You neocons can defend bush all you want but look around...support is waning...all his blunders are catching up to him.
Cindy Sheehan broke camp but she started many people thinking and changing their minds. And, no, we haven't forgotten Rove's lies about outing a CIA agent and neither have the investigators. No, just because Katrina took over the news bushy's other problems aren't going away.
You hate Air America? I bet! Yesterday I heard two people who voted for Bushy call in admitting their mistake....one was furious because of his lack of handling of this disaster.....do you think those two are the only ones coming to their senses and seeing what's happening in the good old USA ?
Think. This was a PREDICTED disaster......what will it be like when we get hit unexpectedly?
posted on September 3, 2005 06:35:38 AM new
mingotree - That's exactly what I'm afraid of. What if this had been a terrorist attack? What if it were a case of germ warfare? Our lack of preparedness is frightening and now our true vulnerability has been placed on display for the whole world to see, especially bin Laden. The blame ultimately lands on Bush's head. He's the president. He's the boss. What his subordinates did or didn't do, is his responsibility. Just like what my subordinates do at work is mine because I am the boss. They knew this was coming, it had been broadcast all over the country. They knew it was going to be bad. They have no excuse. Had this been an upper or middle class neighborhood do you think the outcome would have been different? Had this happened in Washington, DC or someplace in Texas would it have been different? I'm betting it would have.
I hate to say that I think this administration looks upon the poor as expendable. They see them as a drain on this country's economy. Comments made on this board from members of the right about the poor have cemented that thought. That's certainly not the America I want to be a part of.
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Sep 3, 2005 06:36 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2005 07:18:23 AM new
cheryl- Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't ALL of New Orleans devastated? I'm certain not only the poor lost everything to the flooding. Let us not forget there are other areas, Mississippi comes to mind, that were leveled as well. These people should not be forgotten. I believe of the millions that suffered substantial loss, all were not poor. I don't know about you, but I certainly would not have been willing to drive through axle-deep water (or higher) and risk being killed to deliver a case of water. The National Guard needed to restore order first. When did the snipers start? I thought it was immediately, along with the looting.
This was poor planning at all levels. When you live in a city BELOW SEA LEVEL, NEXT TO THE SEA, you should have an evacuation plan in place. Obviously, they did not. This I place at the city and state level. This was bound to happen, sooner or later. (Not trying to shout, just trying to stress.)
What do you all suggest should be done when the "Big One" hits California? I think you should all write your Congressmen with your suggestions, so we do not have these problems when that happens.
posted on September 3, 2005 08:37:48 AM new
Yes, twig, but it was the poor who had no way out. Not all of New Orleans was devastated. The poorest section was the hardest hit. They live closer to the levies. You will die walking through ankle deep water? Not to sound mean, but how tall are you? The shooting did not start immediately. Have you been watching the news? How many rich white folks do you see there with no food or water? How many rich white folks are stranded at the dome? I didn't see any. I saw some white elderly, but that was it. 67% of New Orleans is black. I'd like the percentage number of those who were able to get out before the storm hit. That will give you a better idea.
While other states were hit as well, none of them has the damage New Orleans does.
posted on September 3, 2005 08:40:33 AM new
Twig: Even our little mountain community of 3,00 has an evacuation plan in place, with frequent notices sent to all residents AND a huge map at the p.o., where we all go every day, showing escape routes and the location of the meeting center in case of fire or earthquake. We've had that in place for at least 10 years.
I agree that New Orleans should have had good evacuation plans in place LONG before this.
Doesn't excuse the fed. or state govts., though, for lack of foresight this time around.
[ edited by Roadsmith on Sep 3, 2005 08:43 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2005 09:56:48 AM new
If I were the governor of LA, I would have accepted the help that was offered by AZ, Richardson TWO days BEFORE the hurricane hit.
Also I would have arranged for a few drop off points where water and food could have been flown in and dropped from the air....since there was nowhere to land.
And printouts of where people should go, could have been dropped by fliers above the areas where people were in groups together, waiting for help to arrive. We've done it in war zones...warning people to leave.
But it is oh-so-easy to play arm-chair quarterbacks with 20/20 hindsight.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 3, 2005 09:58 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2005 03:55:46 PM new
cheryl- Sorry to take so long to get back to you, we went to an estate sale and an auction.....
I said axle-deep water, (not ankle-deep, but I don't know how far I could carry a few cases of water anyway...my upper arm strength just isn't what it used to be) which I believe any higher would trash my car. (And I'm not very tall..lol!) If someone had seen a crazy white woman pushing a shopping cart full of anything through the water...well, I shudder to think. If it were here, well, they know me here and would expect me to act like a crazy white woman.
I understand the people with means left and the poor could not. The city should have had buses there earlier, but they thought they would be safe in those locations. But for the flooding, they probably would have been and supplies would have gotten there sooner..imo. The local government was either not prepared for the numbers that came or just were not prepared for the amount of devastation.
I am disgusted, too, that their elders and sick died while waiting. I am disgusted that women and young girls were raped and people were murdered there (by criminals OR the unmedicated mentally ill).
But, without knowing what we know now...I don't think anything would have been done differently....but they should have been better prepared for the worst...cuz it happened.
By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer 2 minutes ago
Thousands more bedraggled refugees were bused and airlifted to salvation Saturday, leaving the heart of New Orleans to the dead and dying, the elderly and frail stranded too many days without food, water or medical care.
No one knows how many were killed by Hurricane Katrina's floods and how many more succumbed waiting to be rescued. But the bodies are everywhere: hidden in attics, floating among the ruined city, crumpled on wheelchairs, abandoned on highways.
And the dying goes on — at the convention center and an airport triage center, where bodies were kept in a refrigerated truck.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Saturday that she expected the death toll to reach the thousands. And Craig Vanderwagen, rear admiral of the U.S. Public Health Service, said one morgue alone, at a St. Gabriel prison, expected 1,000 to 2,000 bodies.
Touring the airport triage center, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., a physician, said "a lot more than eight to 10 people are dying a day."
Most were those too sick or weak to survive. But not all.
Charles Womack, a 30-year-old roofer, said he saw one man beaten to death and another commit suicide at the Superdome. Womack was beaten with a pipe and being treated at the airport triage center.
"One guy jumped off a balcony. I saw him do it. He was talking to a lady about it. He said it reminded him of the war and he couldn't leave," he said.
Three babies died at the convention center from heat exhaustion, said Mark Kyle, a medical relief provider.
Some 20,000 refugees had been waiting for rescue for nearly a week at the Superdome, with as many as 25,000 more at the New Orleans convention center. National Guard Lt. Col. Bernard McLaughlin said the number may have been closer to 5,000 to 7,000.
The last 300 refugees at the Superdome climbed aboard buses Saturday, eliciting cheers from members of the Texas National Guard who were guarding the facility.
At the convention center, thousands of refugees dragged their meager belongings to buses, the mood more numb than jubilant. Yolando Sanders, who had been stuck at the convention center for five days, was among those who filed past corpses to reach the buses.
"Anyplace is better than here," she said.
"People are dying over there."
Nearby, a woman lay dead in a wheelchair on the front steps. A man was covered in a black drape with a dry line of blood running to the gutter, where it had pooled. Another had lain on a chaise lounge for four days, his stocking feet peeking out from under a quilt.
By mid-afternoon, only pockets of stragglers remained in the streets around the convention center, and New Orleans paramedics began carting away the dead.
A once-vibrant city of 480,000 people, overtaken just days ago by floods, looting, rape and arson, was now an empty, sodden tomb.
The exact number of dead won't be known for some time. Survivors were still being plucked from roofs and shattered highways across the city. President Bush ordered more than 7,000 active duty forces to the Gulf Coast on Saturday.
"There are people in apartments and hotels that you didn't know were there," Army Brig. Gen. Mark Graham said.
The overwhelming majority of those stranded in the post-Katrina chaos were those without the resources to escape — and, overwhelmingly, they were black.
"The first few days were a natural disaster. The last four days were a man-made disaster," said Phillip Holt, 51, who was rescued from his home Saturday with his partner and three of their aging Chihuahuas. They left a fourth behind they couldn't grab in time.
Tens of thousands of people had been evacuated from the city, and Texas Gov. Rick Perry said as many as 120,000 hurricane refugees were in 97 shelters across the state, with another 100,000 in Texas hotels and motels. Others were in Tennessee, Indiana and Arkansas.
Emergency workers at the Astrodome were told to expect 10,000 new arrivals daily for the next three days.
Thousands of people remained at Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, where officials turned a Delta Blue terminal into a triage unit. Officials said 3,000 to 5,000 people had been treated at the triage unit, but fewer than 200 remain. Others throughout the airport awaited transport out of the city.
"In the beginning it was like trying to lasso an octopus. When we got here it was overwhelming," said Jake Jacoby, a physician helping run the center.
Airport director Roy Williams said about 30 people had died, some of them elderly and ill. The bodies were being kept in refrigerated trucks as a temporary morgue.
At the convention center, people stumbled toward the helicopters, dehydrated and nearly passing out from exhaustion. Many had to be carried by National Guard troops and police on stretchers. And some were being pushed up the street on office chairs and on dollies.
Nita LaGarde, 105, was pushed down the street in her wheelchair as her nurse's 5-year-old granddaughter, Tanisha Blevin, held her hand. The pair spent two days in an attic, two days on an interstate island and the last four days on the pavement in front of the convention center.
"They're good to see," LaGarde said, with remarkable gusto as she waited to be loaded onto a gray Marine helicopter. She said they were sent by God. "Whatever He has for you, He'll take care of you. He'll sure take care of you."
LaGarde's nurse, Ernestine Dangerfield, 60, said LaGarde had not had a clean adult diaper in more than two days. "I just want to get somewhere where I can get her nice and clean," she said.
Around the corner, a motley fleet of luxury tour buses and yellow school buses lined up two deep to pick up some of the healthier refugees. National Guardsmen confiscated a gun, knives and letter openers from people before they got on the buses.
"It's been a long time coming," Derek Dabon, 29, said as he waited to pass through a guard checkpoint. "There's no way I'm coming back. To what? That don't make sense. I'm going to start a new life."
Hillary Snowton, 40, sat on the sidewalk outside with a piece of white sheet tied around his face like a bandanna as he stared at a body that had been lying on a chaise lounge for four days, its stocking feet peeking out from under a quilt.
"It's for the smell of the dead body," he said of the sheet. His brother-in-law, Octave Carter, 42, said it has been "every day, every morning, breakfast lunch and dinner looking at it."
When asked why he didn't move further away from the corpse, Carter replied, "it stinks everywhere, Blood."
Dan Craig, director of recovery at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said it could take up to six months to get the water out of New Orleans, and the city would then need to dry out, which could take up to three more months.
A Saks Fifth Avenue store billowed smoke Saturday, as did rows of warehouses on the east bank of the Mississippi River, where corrugated roofs buckled and tiny explosions erupted. Gunfire — almost two dozen shots — broke out in the French Quarter overnight.
In the French Quarter, some residents refused or did not know how to get out. Some holed up with guns.
As the warehouse district burned, Ron Seitzer, 61, washed his dirty laundry in the even dirtier waters of the Mississippi River and said he didn't know how much longer he could stay without water or power, surrounded by looters.
"I've never even had a nightmare or a beautiful dream about this," he said as he watched the warehouses burn. "People are just not themselves."
___
Associated Press reporters Kevin McGill, Robert Tanner, Melinda Deslatte, Brett Martel and Mary Foster contributed to this report.
posted on September 3, 2005 05:12:47 PM newIf it were here, well, they know me here and would expect me to act like a crazy white woman.
LOL, twig. Now you're beginning to sound like me. Still, an axel isn't that far off the ground, but I can understand not wanting to wade through water that is contaminated with feces, may contain alligators and snakes and God knows what else.
The criminals are from the prison. Believe it or not, they were also taken to the Dome. There were rapists in that group of criminals. Now they're running free. Coming to a neighborhood near you.
I don't know what could have been done differently, but I do know that plenty could have been done differently when the worst happened. Our government, local and federal, failed these people miserably. By failing them, they've also failed us. How can we feel safe now?
posted on September 3, 2005 05:24:16 PM new
You're right , Cheryl, how are we supposed to feel safe now after the incredible bungle of a known disaster. What happens when we DON'T know it's coming??
By the way...speaking of leadership....anyone heard from DICK Chaney?
You know that guy who's supposed to be the Vice President...is he alive?
posted on September 3, 2005 07:06:52 PM new
Mingo, I think maybe Cheney is keeping busy lining up some more work for Halliburton.
Navy Turns to Halliburton for Help on Damaged Bases
By JOHN H. CUSHMAN Jr.
Published: September 4, 2005
WASHINGTON, Sept. 3 - Facing extensive damage by Hurricane Katrina to naval installations in Mississippi, the Navy turned immediately to the Halliburton Company's KBR subsidiary for tasks like restoring electricity, repairing roofs and clearing debris at bases that are urgently needed for response efforts.
It is a familiar role for KBR, which under longstanding contracts has delivered the engineering equivalent of first aid to the Navy and other military and government agencies after natural disasters for more than 15 years. This time, the Halliburton unit's performance is likely to be watched especially closely, as its work under separate contracts in Iraq has come under extensive criticism in the past two years.
The U.S. Naval Facilities Engineering Command turned to Halliburton after the hurricane under terms of a five-year contract worth up to $500 million, renewed in 2004 after competitive bidding, that calls on the company to provide immediate services on demand after natural disasters, in humanitarian crises or in military conflicts. Last year, the Navy invoked the same contract after Hurricane Ivan hit Florida.
Although Halliburton has not yet been asked to work on installations around New Orleans, it said on Friday that it would begin performing damage assessments there "as soon as it is deemed safe to do so."
The company, headed by Dick Cheney before he became vice president, has close ties to the Bush administration, and earlier this year confirmed that it had hired Joseph M. Allbaugh as a consultant on issues including disaster relief and homeland security. Mr. Allbaugh was the director of FEMA during the first two years of the Bush administration.
