posted on October 17, 2000 05:39:51 PM new
*** Adult Only and Risqué Category Notification ***
eBay is an ever-growing, ever-changing community made up of diverse individuals with many differing
interests. This diversity is part of what makes eBay such a unique commerce community. Although we
welcome and celebrate this diversity, we also believe that it is important to provide a balanced
approach to our community's needs. Today’s announced changes to the Adult Only and Risqué category
policies strike what we believe is a balanced approach for the listing and promotion of adult items on
eBay.
The changes outlined below will place restrictions on the community's ability to promote items that are
considered "adult" in nature in both the Adult Only and Risqué categories, while at the same time
providing for basic functionality that the rest of eBay enjoys.
Upcoming Changes
-- Effective November 10 - Rename the Adult Only category to "Mature Audiences"
-- Effective November 10 - Alphabetize the Mature Audiences category with the other categories in
Everything Else
-- Effective November 21 - Revise our Adult Only policy to prohibit listings that are sexually explicit
or graphic. We appreciate your assistance in enforcing these changes but ask that you not report
violations of these revisions until the effective date of 11/21/00. Learn more about these revisions at
http://pages.ebay.com/preview/adult.html
-- Effective late November - Implement a separate search engine for the Mature Audiences categories (It
will only search items within the Mature Audiences categories. It will not include items on the core
site.)
Additionally, our goal is to ensure that adult listings, which are not allowed on the main eBay site,
are not readily accessible to users that do not wish to view such items. Last April we revised our Adult
Only policy to include definitions of what would be permissible to list on the main eBay site
(particularly within the risqué and related categories.) This policy will be strictly enforced in the
coming months. During this time, we will evaluate the effectiveness of this enforcement to determine if
further changes are required in order to ensure that adult items do not appear on the main eBay site.
Finally, in the past we have heard from users that the adult policies are not always applied
consistently. The new policies help to clarify areas of confusion and we do anticipate that these
changes will make it possible for us to more consistently enforce the policy. However, the decision on
whether an item is adult in nature or whether a listing is inappropriate for the main site will be an
eBay decision. We will reevaluate these policies moving forward and increase restrictions on adult
listings if necessary if the new policies are not quickly and consistently adopted.
Please view the Mature Audiences policy at:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-mature.html
We appreciate your assistance in adhering to these revised policies and in helping to keep adult
material out of the main eBay site.
posted on October 17, 2000 05:51:39 PM new
I must be missing something here.
On 11/10, they *rename* the 'Adult Only' to 'Mature Audiences'. Ok, fine. This would mean that - eff. 11/10 - the 'Adult Only' category will cease to exist and a 'Mature Audiences' category will take it's place.
On 11/10, they 'Alphabetize the Mature Audiences category with the other categories in Everything Else'. Whoa!!! Does this mean that all the porn stuff will now be in with the other categories in 'Everything Else'?
Then, on 11/21, they 'Revise our Adult Only policy to prohibit listings that are sexually explicit or graphic'. But I thought they just said that the 'Adult Only' category no longer will exist??? Is the 'sexually explicit or graphic' stuff supposed to go in the 'Mature Audiences' category which will be 'alphabetized in with the other categories in 'Everything Else'?
posted on October 17, 2000 06:09:32 PM new
Could be I'm reading it wrong, but I think they are for the most part, eliminating the adult section entirely.
posted on October 17, 2000 06:17:06 PM new
I don't read it that way at all.
Right now Adults Only is listed at the bottom of Everything Else (A is after W). Alphabetically it'll be in the right place not at the bottom like an unwanted child.
What they are now prohibitting is descriptions with "XXX" and "XX" in the titles and explicit graphics/scans.
IF I'm reading this right, it's what Adult sellers have wanted-including an Adults Only Search engine.
My only question is what brought on this change of heart?
I am tentatively optimistic that for once Ebay has done the right thing. (Of course with the site always down you'll never sellanything ANYWAY but that's a topic for another day.)
(I can't wait to hear the Dr Laura warriors out there expressing their outrage that the category wasn't wiped out altogether.)
posted on October 17, 2000 06:20:23 PM new
Oh here's the laundry list of what will be permitted in the "Mature" area:
Policy Changes for Adult Only (Mature Audiences) Category
Beginning November 21, 2000, in addition to what is not permitted per our current Adult
Only policy or on the core site, the following will also no longer be permitted within a
listing:
Descriptions depicting penetration or oral sexual acts and graphic portrayals of
human genitalia
Images portraying graphic sexual activity or graphic portrayals of human genitalia
Hidden camera videos and amateur videos containing adult/sexual activity
Links to sites that contain material prohibited on eBay as outlined in our Mature
Audiences policy
Listing titles which represent any of the above and what is covered under our
existing policy
Titles or descriptions which describe an item as XX, XXX or above
Titles containing profanity
Used underwear - including but not limited to, boxer shorts, panties, briefs,
athletic supporters
** Please note that listings reported to eBay for violations of this policy will be reviewed
based on the content of the listing and not on the item itself.
NOT Vorlon4 on Ebay
[ edited by vorlon4 on Oct 17, 2000 06:21 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2000 06:23:53 PM newEffective November 21 - Revise our Adult Only policy to prohibit listings that are sexually explicit or graphic.
Huh?
So you can't list sexually explicit or graphic items in the Adult area. Well, then what's the point of the adult area? What *do* you put in that catagory?
posted on October 17, 2000 06:27:11 PM new
Maybe they had a change of heart because Gold's rolled out an adult category over the weekend complete with a search feature.
Not saying there is any competition, but, it is just a thought.....
posted on October 17, 2000 06:28:04 PM new
Looks like Vorlon and I were typing at the same time.
Please note that listings reported to eBay for violations of this policy will be reviewed based on the content of the listing and not on the item itself.
So, you can sell an item that involves "sexually explicit or graphic" things, but you can't describe it or put a picture of, say, a video or magazine cover in the listing. Is that correct?
posted on October 17, 2000 06:32:33 PM new
It is not the item being sold it is the description to sell it - so I guess you just have to list something like.....
Really really filthy hot tape. I can't tell you just trust me and buy this!! Hot Cheerleaders doing you know what!!! Shaking their things for your whatsits!!
I guess they will have to learn to write meaningless ad copy like other industries.
posted on October 17, 2000 06:36:48 PM newShaking their things for your whatsits!!
macandjan: You now owe me a new keyboard. I just spit Diet Dr. Pepper all over mine laughing at your 'wahsits'.
This new rule, if I understand it correctly, it pretty stupid. Look, adult now has a search so sellers won't feel the need to list adult items with the rest of the junqe. That should stop all the emails to safeharbor...but then they go and add this new thing about HOW the item can be described. Hello, fire up the auto-responces to handle all the new complaints.
posted on October 17, 2000 06:39:23 PM new
lotsafuzz-that would be MY understanding. The
mag/movie could contain all the stuff you can't show it or describe it.
I'M Guessing a semi-nude woman ona mag cover would be acceptable. A nude woman getting it (or described as getting it) would be a nono.
posted on October 17, 2000 06:41:31 PM new
Vorlon: Actually, it would probably be ok as long as you didn't describe 'it' in explicit or graphic detail. Guess it's time to pull out the old high school health book to find out the correct term for the birds and the bees.
posted on October 17, 2000 07:15:15 PM new
I must say I am glad ebay is finally allowing a search of the adult category. I firmly believe that if someone is paying ebay to list a legal item, They should have the same rights as any other person listing something. If it can only legally be sold to adults, than legally only adults should be able to search for said item. I think I can understand where they are getting at with the rules. They are trying to please keep the moral majority happy by limiting what these people would have to see if they went into an adult area. Basically I guess sellers are going to have to tone down language learn how to do some artful cropping. If nothing else, it will give be interesting to see how imaginative the listings can get without crossing the line.
posted on October 17, 2000 07:39:11 PM new
lotsafuzz - send keyboard in old pizza box.
have lots in stock to replace. would you like to try the one I have with chunky peanutbutter?
I am not sure if it is their intention - but I think this will kill the category.
I recently looked at a translation site which would do your pages for 18¢ an English word and translate them in to Japanese. They had a list of 9 sites you could look at to see their work and one was a Japanese porn site that showed very graphic stuff and they linked right into it with no warning or disclaimers. 3 clicks from my bank.
posted on October 17, 2000 09:00:13 PM new
probably ban anything that can be used as a weapon next - garden rakes - tweety bird keychains rocks and minerals - bottles. I once went to a murder trial where the weapon was a pool que.
posted on October 17, 2000 10:59:56 PM new
I know, I know! Policies are written by committee!!!! (Remember the old saying that a camel is a horse that was put together by a committee.....)
posted on October 17, 2000 11:16:14 PM new
It would appear that they eliminated everything "adult" from the category.
macandjan - your description had an error. If the cheerleaders were not professional actors then they would be amateurs and this is not allowed.
I guess you have to consult a lawyer and you end up with something like...
Exceedingly filthy hot tape but not to exceed the stated guidelines set forth by ebay. We are currently under restraint from the Ebay Corporation preventing disclosure of the specific subject matter of this videographic presentation. It is our belief that you should have confidence in our intentions and should purchase this interesting pre-recorded VHS product. Hot, or at minimum mildly arousing (but not as to encourage the excretion of bodily fluids), professional actors attempting to convince you that they are Cheerleaders doing you know what!!! (This is not to imply that any form of sexual activity occurs in this teleplay)Shaking their things for your whatsits!! (In a non-arousing manner which is deemed acceptable under the terms of this category)
Ooooh yeah baby. It's so hot. Bid today.
[ edited by avaloncourt on Oct 17, 2000 11:18 PM ]
posted on October 18, 2000 02:39:27 AM new
As a sporadic seller in the Adult category (although my items tend to fall more into Risque rather than Adult) I am hopeful about these changes. I'm happy about the switch to "Mature"---as someone else said, it takes us out of the "Adult" bottom of the barrel in the Everything Else category. I'm THRILLED about the search function. I'm going to be the first to write and thank Ebay if and when it actually happens.
I want to give a few opinions...having some experience in this (besides selling, i have also worked in adult film industry (NOT as an actress....behind the camera) for several years)....
By bodily fluids, they most likely mean videos loudly proclaiming their content of urination and defecation scenes. These have become quite common in "standard" porn (that is, porn produced for a mainstream audience). Using common sense and an awareness of this part of the market, I am quite certain they are not planning to eliminate all porn containing the more "usual" fluids---although it would be possible to take out the fluids and still have an adult section, since most softcore and many kinky vids (spanking, etc.)don't include "fluids". Banning all fluids, it's true, would severely limit the selection...but I highly doubt that is what they mean.
Second---I don't think the "description ban" will be a problem--really and truly. It is very similar to the types of bans on covers of video boxes for rental in adult sections of mainstream video rental places, or bans on explicit language in magazines sold at liquor stores. You can have extremely hardcore stuff inside, but you can't always say it on the outside. This is nothing new. The reason I think it won't be a problem is that I strongly suspect people will tend to search by name of actress or type of movie (asian, bbw, gay/lesbian, whatever) or name of magazine (penthouse, oui, whatever). You can still write "JENNA JAMESON--"(title)" and you will still have pageviews and bidders. The fact that you can't say exactly what Jenna is doing in the film will certainly make the descriptions shorter but I don't think it will stop people from buying.
Personally I think this new rule *is* silly---since as usual it comes down to: what are potentially offendable people doing in a section or using a search that they already KNOW will bring up items objectionable to them---but silly is not the same as catastrophic. I don't think it will kill the market. (The market for porn, like that for prostitution, has been around for literally centuries---I think it will survive.
I am not clear what they mean by "no amateur videos".....amateur videos are a big part of the adult market, and it's hard to believe they would patrol for it since the *vast* majority of amateur vids are made by consenting couples and adults....but I guess what they are trying to do is prevent people from selling stolen or secretly filmed stuff, such as the Tommy/Pam videos or "locker room" videos (which are mostly staged anyways). I'll wait and see how that one plays out.
I am not an all-or-nothing person. I would prefer it if Ebay could become a site in which a person could sell videos----XXX, bodily fluids, or what have you---to a consenting adult audience without extensive content rules (other than the very important, very necessary, and very positive rules about underage participants or buyers) but I am not going to nit pick because I think that by and large the positive point of having an adult search will outweigh all these rules. You can't always get everything you want and sometimes you have to be happy with a compromise. So far, I've seen nothing to seriously concern me (or the people I know who sell videos, etc.)
posted on October 18, 2000 02:56:41 AM new
hehehe...Let's see how eBay feels when I drop this little bit of Info to AVN and all the Porn News Services. Oh, and i'm sure Larry Flynt would have a field day with this one...not to mention one of my folks who works in Porn.
posted on October 18, 2000 10:38:04 AM new
Ebay has a long history of caving into every special interest group that gripes to it, and even caving into to whiny europeans like the French and Germans.
I'm sure that ebay has been under pressure from groups like NOW and Dworkinites, plus the usual suspects over at the Janet Reno's office.
One thing I like about Yahoo's auctions is that Yahoo will actually stand up to these groups and tell them to go pound sand. I really admire Yahoo for standing up for freedom of speech against France & Germany (who want to fight fascism by being fascists).
posted on October 18, 2000 12:58:47 PM new
I sure hope eBay isn't too bias and applies this policy towards the other video Sellers on eBay. I see at the most, 9000+ auctions that blantanly violate this policy.
Yeah, The Terminator Films have excess Violence and Bodily Injury. Same is true for many Japanese Anime Films, a few war Flicks. Oh yeah, Cult Films violate a whole host of rules under this new act. Heavy Metal...out the Window.
Under this one:
[i]Descriptions depicting penetration or oral sexual acts and graphic portrayals of
human genitalia
Images portraying graphic sexual activity or graphic portrayals of human genitalia [/i]
Exit to Eden, Basic Instinct, Story of O, Heavy Metal, some Mainstream Japanese Anime, Cult Films, Showgirls, Eyes Wide Shut, and it goes on and on...
Gee, eBay just shot themseleves in the foot with this one.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
but I don't think it will stop people from buying.