posted on October 27, 2005 07:33:32 PM newThe bottom line is that all the social ills that are part and parcel of the drug problem would be significantly reduced.
I dont think so. If cigerattes were illegal, there would be less people smoking them to start with.
posted on October 27, 2005 07:42:42 PM new
Helen, who says that the peoples manifesto? Give me a break. You talking as if these were all recreational users.
Do a little research, stay away from the B.S. Socialist sites for a couple hours. See if you can find out just how many people overdose everyday. Then find out how many were from prescription drugs and how many from illegal drugs.
Then check and see how many children were hurt or died because of a stoned parent. It doesn’t make any difference if it was an accident or not.
How many know just what Meth is and what it does?
Several years ago we let all the loonies go because we were holding these people against there will. Now they can run out in front of cars and trains, leap off of tall buildings. We can’t even make these psycho take the meds that would help them (just ask Bigturd)
posted on October 27, 2005 07:46:46 PM new
What i'm saying Maggie, is that the government needs to stop the hipocracy on this issue and take a real look at it, rather than having emotional thoughts about it.
Drugs are here to stay and they, the government, can regulate it or keep on convicting and killing over it.
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Colin,
I've been there myself too and i've done 'em all, in the past but i never robbed or killed anyone to get my fix when i needed it and i know lots of people that never did either. I've also known lots of people in high places and in all walks of society that did drugs and they functioned perfectly.
Even if it was legal, there would still be a black market.
I don't totally disagree with you on this but I believe it would be much the same as the moonshiners, of which i know a few of and if Helen ever comes out west i'll buy her a mason jar or two of some really good hootch. But seriously, why would a drug user buy from a black marketeer for a inflated price when they can go to a legitimate outlet, say a liquor store and buy it cheaper?
"I dont think so. If cigerattes were illegal, there would be less people smoking them to start with."
There might be less people smoking them but if they were priced as high as illegal drugs so that the average user could not easily obtain or afford them and if the addiction was as strong, there would be an increase in crime and the jails would be overflowing.
posted on October 27, 2005 07:55:52 PM new
I heard the other day that Oprah got stopped and searched at the airport. They looked up her dress and they saw 50 pounds of Crack.
posted on October 27, 2005 08:03:13 PM new
The war on drugs has become a beaurocracy that only continues to justify it's own existence, and to give legislators an easy way to make points with voters. It's an obscenely expensive failure. It's time to legalize them all. Whom do you suppose are the biggest opponents of legalized drugs? That's right, the drug cartels. Gee, I wonder why?
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on October 27, 2005 08:05:03 PM new
Pi,
Why on earth would you think it would be cheaper.
Once it’s taxed it will be more expense. Every state will have a tax on it too.
There will be tons of people killed in South America, fighting over the crop. The same will happen in the golden triangle. Where do you think this stuff comes from?
I know a lot of users. some that seemed like they could carry on with out a problem. One was a good friend since we were about 7 years old his nick name was Jimbo. He had some great jobs one of which was the city planner for Miami Fla. He could drink me under the table and never show it. Do twice the coke... (but always wanted more).
He died a few years ago, while he was in rehab.
I've had a friend, overdose on heron in the backseat of my car( we’ll call him Lee). By the time we got him to the hospital it was too late. It was some real good sh*t and he wanted the great high...like the one you get the first time you do it.
Another friend was at a party, doing a few drinks, a little coke and maybe a few downs (not sure how many) Just valium, nothing big. He thought he could piss with the big dogs that day and tried to out run the cops on his new Harley. He hit a sign near the exit ramp.
people don't function perfectly on drugs. It took me many years to realize that. I know it now.
Your talking a little nose candy. Which, believe me, winds up being a lot of nose candy. to maybe (just once) a drag of crack.
Amen,
Reverend Colin http://www.reverendcolin.com
posted on October 27, 2005 08:07:14 PM new
Tell me, what good are drugs? What value are they? What do they do to the betterment of our society? Why should these harmful, useless, things be made legal..what's the benefit?? I just don't get it..??
posted on October 27, 2005 08:10:13 PM new
Colin, in what way would legalizing drugs have affected the self destruction of your friends in one way or another?
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on October 27, 2005 08:20:01 PM newHow many know just what Meth is and what it does?
Methamphetamine
Street Names: Meth, Speed, Ice, Chalk, Crank, Fire, Glass, and Crystal.
Physical Effects: Methamphetamine is a toxic, addictive stimulant. Meth use dilates the pupils and produces temporary hyperactivity, euphoria, a sense of increased energy, and tremors.
Dangers: Methamphetamine use increases the heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature, and rate of breathing, and it frequently results in violent behavior in users. Methamphetamine is neurotoxic, meaning that it causes damage to the brain. High doses or chronic use have been associated with increased nervousness, irritability, and paranoia. Withdrawal from high doses produces severe depression. Chronic abuse produces a psychosis similar to schizophrenia and is characterized by paranoia, picking at the skin, self absorption, and auditory and visual hallucinations. Violent and erratic behavior is frequently seen among chronic, high-dose methamphetamine abusers.
Description: Meth can be smoked, snorted, injected, or taken orally, and its appearance varies depending on how it is used. Typically, it is a white bitter-tasting powder that easily dissolves in beverages. Another common form of the drug is crystal meth, or “ice,” named for its appearance (that of clear, large chunky crystals resembling rock candy). Crystal meth is smoked in a manner similar to crack cocaine and about 10 to 15 “hits” can be obtained from a single gram of the substance.
Distribution Methods: Meth is frequently sold through social networks and is rarely sold on the streets.
I agree that Meth is an insidious drug and i really cannot get behind legalising it because of the effects of it and i see no way that it can be regulated or any way that the potency can be reduced to a point that it would render it less harmfull. But something else has to be done because the current policies on this and other types of illegal drugs just aren't working and that's the basic truth, believe it or not.
I've also had a few friends that died from drug overdoses but i believe it was because of the potency of the drugs they were doing. Government regulation would control that with most drugs.
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Maggie,
You bring up a good point but then why is alcohol legal? In my opinion alcohol falls into that same category, it can be looked at as being just as useless but yet, it's legal, for some reason.
posted on October 27, 2005 08:27:22 PM new
Prof,
It wouldn't have made a difference. If there easier to get. More will die.
A friend will buy for anoter friend. They won't be illegal so you can just let them lay around the house. Oooops I dropped a gram of herion in the park.
I mean, after all, there cheap now that the government is taking care of everything.
You liberal are worried about big brother. Don't you think being the supplier of drugs would be one step closer to just that.
posted on October 27, 2005 08:33:07 PM new
BTW, this is no longer correct:
"Distribution Methods: Meth is frequently sold through social networks and is rarely sold on the streets."
If meth isn't included. Someone will be making it and distributing it.
If crack isn't included, they will just make it out of the drug store coke.
Can we have some legal drugs and some not legal?
You make the money giving people what they want.
posted on October 27, 2005 08:44:54 PM new
And since we're talking about illegal drugs, can someone tell me what the heck is going on in Afghanistan with all the new crops of Heroin Poppies. I mean since we liberated them, why the heck are we now allowing them to grow this sh!t and why is their government not doing more to stop it?? Don't they know where all that Heroin will end up? It makes no sense to me.
posted on October 27, 2005 10:05:48 PM new
Simple economics, if a drug can be easily grown or manufactured the supply will increase, as supply grows beyond demand the price will fall.
posted on October 28, 2005 01:47:35 AM new
In my experience most people with an addiction have a tiger by the tail. You can clinically describe what Meth does, but it doesn't detail the rotten teeth, erratic behavior, violence, damaged children, and death it causes on a daily basis. Colin is right and I agree, legalization of drugs would allow the wholesale degradation and destruction of susceptible people and those around them.
This is an insidious form of logic that looks good on paper, like vegetarianism or communism, but doesn't pass the real world test for the majority of people.
As much as I'd like to see my mind-altering substance of choice legalized.........
posted on October 28, 2005 04:19:58 AM new...if the average user could not easily obtain or afford them and if the addiction was as strong...
Helen, you're kidding, right? If the addiction was as strong? A person who smokes cigarettes is far more "addicted" than your average drug user. And we have legalization to thank for that. So I agree there is hypocrisy there. But if you look at the addiction to tobacco ...nothing good has come of having it legal. (Well, ok, maybe some farmers and people have jobs for it, but we are not talking about that.)
And, The price keeps going up and people keep paying it! I heard they are near 5.00 a pack in NY now. The price matters precious little when your veins are throbbing, "nicotine nicotine - need nicotine"!
You know, a person who smokes will have 10.00 to his name and no food in his house. You can bet he will buy his cigarettes before he buys the food. Whether he's got a family to feed nor not. They'll make due with something, but he will have his smokes.
What makes you think crime will decrease when people who spend their money on drugs either dont have it to spend in the first place; or spend what they do have in lieu of a better quality life?? Where does that reasoning come in?
imo, cultivating another habit, another crutch, by legalizing it, does not suddenly make the usage of it virtuous. And it would become a habit for millions just like cigarettes are. Recreational users and kids always think its harmless at the time, and in a few instances it may be, but the amount of people that would develop a dependency, is far greater than those who would not. (It is the nature of the beast itself.)
I really cant see how you think society's ills would be the better for it legalized. Except maybe more control to the government and more to blame them for! (oooo, that sounds like hours of yummy fun doesnt it?)
.
.
posted on October 28, 2005 06:08:37 AM new
Cigarette use is declining, Dbl. There are treatments for smoking addiction made possible because smoking is legal. With legalization of drugs, methadone and treatments for drug abuse could similarly be made available to all drug addicts. It's important to note that most Americans cannot afford drug treatment now and as a result most addicts must become a criminal in order to recieve treatment.
I am not saying that good comes from drugs but that more harm is being done by making drugs illegal. Legalization and harm reduction policies include decriminalization and medicalization and might also include the development of needle exchange programs to prevent the spread of HIV infections and other programs advocating responsible drug use.
After enormous financial cost, the war against drugs has been lost. In fact, most of the harms related to drug abuse are caused by drug policies. Look at all the crimes caused by addicts who need money to support their habit ---overloading jails and prisons and courts. Think about the inner city people who can't leave their homes at night because their neighborhoods are dominated by the drug market.
It's absolutely wrong to think that anyone who favors legalization sees drug use as "good".
Drugs are here to stay and it's crystal clear that keeping them illegal is not working and will never work.
posted on October 28, 2005 06:46:42 AM new
Well, Helen, I think that you, like most people, have, as Colin said, this idea that drugs is all inner city manifested and cultured. Maybe because that is all we see, or hear about, but that part of it is really just on the fringes of it all. I agree 'the war' on drugs is a perpetual ideal we'd like to see realized, but never will. It doesnt matter who is doing the distribution.
It's big money on the highest level - and as always, where's theres money there will be power and control. People who are very easily bought..and sold.
You're just configuring another way to shuffle the dancers around,.. As if the illusion will improve the rotting wood of the stage.
posted on October 28, 2005 07:08:28 AM new
and I also wanted to add, you bring the medical aspects of it into the discussion but people who use drugs harm their bodies anyway. Their immunity and resistance IS damaged from it. That is a medical fact. It might be a slow process, but I dont care what it is; you cant put any of that kind of sh* into your body and expect it to remain functional and healthy for so long. So just like cigerettes, are you are in fact, advocating the govt should allow us, ..even provide us, with the means of injuring ourselves all the easier? Why, because its fun?
"You're just configuring another way to shuffle the dancers around,.. As if the illusion will improve the rotting wood of the stage."
I might say in response that you are among those who refuse to recognize the advantage to our society in change. The "stage" will be improved with legalization as those drug addicts that you call rotting wood will be allowed individual liberty.
