posted on November 18, 2005 12:25:08 AM
The Honorable John P. Murtha
War in Iraq
(Washington D.C.)- The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region.
General Casey said in a September 2005 Hearing, “the perception of occupation in Iraq is a major driving force behind the insurgency.” General Abizaid said on the same date, “Reducing the size and visibility of the coalition forces in Iraq is a part of our counterinsurgency strategy.”
For 2 ˝ years I have been concerned about the U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I have addressed my concerns with the Administration and the Pentagon and have spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited. A few days before the start of the war I was in Kuwait – the military drew a red line around Baghdad and said when U.S. forces cross that line they will be attacked by the Iraqis with Weapons of Mass Destruction – but the US forces said they were prepared. They had well trained forces with the appropriate protective gear.
We spend more money on Intelligence than all the countries in the world together, and more on Intelligence than most countries GDP. But the intelligence concerning Iraq was wrong. It is not a world intelligence failure. It is a U.S. intelligence failure and the way that intelligence was misused.
I have been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals almost every week since the beginning of the War. And what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support.
The threat posed by terrorism is real, but we have other threats that cannot be ignored. We must be prepared to face all threats. The future of our military is at risk. Our military and their families are stretched thin. Many say that the Army is broken. Some of our troops are on their third deployment. Recruitment is down, even as our military has lowered its standards. Defense budgets are being cut. Personnel costs are skyrocketing, particularly in health care. Choices will have to be made. We can not allow promises we have made to our military families in terms of service benefits, in terms of their health care, to be negotiated away. Procurement programs that ensure our military dominance cannot be negotiated away. We must be prepared. The war in Iraq has caused huge shortfalls at our bases in the U.S.
Much of our ground equipment is worn out and in need of either serious overhaul or replacement. George Washington said, “To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace.” We must rebuild our Army. Our deficit is growing out of control. The Director of the Congressional Budget Office recently admitted to being “terrified” about the budget deficit in the coming decades. This is the first prolonged war we have fought with three years of tax cuts, without full mobilization of American industry and without a draft. The burden of this war has not been shared equally; the military and their families are shouldering this burden.
Our military has been fighting a war in Iraq for over two and a half years. Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty. Our military captured Saddam Hussein, and captured or killed his closest associates. But the war continues to intensify. Deaths and injuries are growing, with over 2,079 confirmed American deaths. Over 15,500 have been seriously injured and it is estimated that over 50,000 will suffer from battle fatigue. There have been reports of at least 30,000 Iraqi civilian deaths.
I just recently visited Anbar Province Iraq in order to assess the conditions on the ground. Last May 2005, as part of the Emergency Supplemental Spending Bill, the House included the Moran Amendment, which was accepted in Conference, and which required the Secretary of Defense to submit quarterly reports to Congress in order to more accurately measure stability and security in Iraq. We have now received two reports. I am disturbed by the findings in key indicator areas. Oil production and energy production are below pre-war levels. Our reconstruction efforts have been crippled by the security situation. Only $9 billion of the $18 billion appropriated for reconstruction has been spent. Unemployment remains at about 60 percent. Clean water is scarce. Only $500 million of the $2.2 billion appropriated for water projects has been spent. And most importantly, insurgent incidents have increased from about 150 per week to over 700 in the last year. Instead of attacks going down over time and with the addition of more troops, attacks have grown dramatically. Since the revelations at Abu Ghraib, American casualties have doubled. An annual State Department report in 2004 indicated a sharp increase in global terrorism.
I said over a year ago, and now the military and the Administration agrees, Iraq can not be won “militarily.” I said two years ago, the key to progress in Iraq is to Iraqitize, Internationalize and Energize. I believe the same today. But I have concluded that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress.
Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are united against U.S. forces and we have become a catalyst for violence. U.S. troops are the common enemy of the Sunnis, Saddamists and foreign jihadists. I believe with a U.S. troop redeployment, the Iraqi security forces will be incentivized to take control. A poll recently conducted shows that over 80% of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, and about 45% of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified. I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis.
I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free. Free from United States occupation. I believe this will send a signal to the Sunnis to join the political process for the good of a “free” Iraq.
My plan calls:
To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
To create a quick reaction force in the region.
To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.
To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq
This war needs to be personalized. As I said before I have visited with the severely wounded of this war. They are suffering.
Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our OBLIGATION to speak out for them. That’s why I am speaking out.
Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM HOME.
posted on November 18, 2005 12:29:42 AM
And BEFORE you start ripping him apart:
The numerous awards and honors presented to Congressman John Murtha include the following:
General Service Awards
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Jefferson Lincoln Award from the Panetta Institute for examplary bipartisan leadership, 2001.
Pennsylvania Distinguished Service Medal for Meritorious Service Beyond the Call of the Normal Dictates of Duty, the Commonwealth's highest honor, 1977.
Pennsylvania Meritorious Service Medal, the Commonwealth's second-highest honor, 1976.
Civic Award from the Johnstown Association of Life Underwriters, 1996.
Leaders in Service Award from the Traveler's Aid Society, for leadership in volunteerism, community service and philantrhopic work, 1992.
Top Hat Award from the Society of Saint Vincent DePaul for support of community volunteers, 1991.
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Economic Development Awards
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Champion of Technology Award from the Pittsburgh Technology Council, 2002.
Chairman's Award of the Economic Summit, Greater Johnstown/Cambria County Chamber of Commerce, 2002.
Government Leader of the Year Award from the Pennsylvania Chamber of Business and Industry, 1993.
Top 100 People of Central Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania Business Central, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002
Eberly Economic Development Award for achievements in Fayette County, 2001.
Annual Award of the Westmoreland Economic Growth Connection, 2001.
Industrial Energy Efficiency Award from the American Iron and Steel Institute, 1997.
Riverperson of the Year Award of the Three Rivers Regatta Board of Directors, for support of river navigation and river restoration, 1994.
Award for Innovation in Coal Conversion from the University of Pittsburgh, 1994.
Mr. Coal Award from the Washington Coal Club, 1992.
Government Action Award of the Greater Johnstown-Cambria County Chamber of Commerce, 1991.
Man of Steel Award from the Cold Finished Steel Bar Institute, 1989.
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Health Care
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Annual Award of the Pennsylvania Cancer Alliance, 2004.
Pink Ribbon Award of the Pennsylvania Breast Cancer Coalition, 2003.
Leadership Award of the National Breast Cancer Coalition, several years, including 2002 and 2003.
Brain Injury Association of America, award for ongoing support, 2003.
Funding Hero Award from the Breast Cancer Research Foundation, 2002.
Legislative Recognition Award from the American Ambulance Association, 2002.
Legislative Award from the National Organization of State Offices of Rural Development, 2002.
Leadership Award from Children's Hospice International, 2002.
Arthur F. McNulty Civic Leadership Award from the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, 2001.
"Thanks from the Children" Award from Children's Hospital of Western Pennsylvania for support and commitment to diabetes research, 2000.
Legislator of the Year Award from the Pennsylvania Rural Health Conference, 1999.
Award of Appreciation from Neurofibromatosis, Inc., 1997.
Leadership Award of the National Marrow Doner Program, 1992.
Silvio Conte Award from the National Head Injury Foundation, 1992.
Award of Appreciation from Children's Hospital of Western Pennsylvania, for funding of the Rangos Research Center, 1990.
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Defense and National Security
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Distinguished Service Medal of the United States Marine Corps, upon his retirement from the Marine Corps Reserves for 37 years of distinguished service to his country, 1990.
Semper Fidelis Award of the Marine Corps Foundation, presented to former Marines who exemplify the traditions and values of the Marine Corps, 2002.
David Glick Award of the World Affairs Council, for distinguished contributions to the understanding of world affairs, 2001.
Outstanding Legislator Award of the Association of the United States Army, 2001.
Spirit of Hope Award of the United Service Organization (USO), named for Bob Hope and presented for dedication to military-service personnel, 2000. Murtha also received the USO's Service Award for support of troops and families during Operation Desert Storm, 1992.
Friend of Defense Science Award from the Association of American Universities, 2000.
Robert A. Thompson Award of the Navy League, for an outstanding citizen who is effectively mindful of the importance of sea power to the national defense, 2000.
Legion of Honor Gold Medallion of the Chapel of the Four Chaplains, for service to all people regardless of race or faith, symbolizing the unity of nations, 2000.
Harry S. Truman Award of the National Guard Association of the United States, for advocating the National Guard's role in national defense, 1993.
Defense Industry Award of the American Defense Preparedness Association, 1993.
Minuteman of the Year Award of the Reserve Officers Association, 1992.
Semper Fidelis Award of the Marine Corps Command and Staff College Foundation, presented to former Marines who exemplify the traditions and values of the Marine Corps, 1991.
Patriot Award of the Pennsylvania American Legion, for his patriotism, 1991.
Grace Murray Hopper Award of the National Security Industrial Association for his support of computer software initiatives, 1991.
99th Army Reserve Command Award of the Army Reserve Association of Pennsylvania, 1991.
Distinguished American Award from the Air Force Association, 1989.
Iron Mike Award, the highest honor of the Marine Corps League, for his support of the Marine Corps and national defense, 1988.
Public Service Award of the National Security Industry Association, 1988.
Distinguished Service Award of the Marine Corps League, 1987.
National Security Leadership Award of the American Security Council, 1987.
Henry M. Jackson Distinguished Service Award, for his support of a strong national defense.
Leadership Award of the Coalition for Peace Through Strength.
Eagle Award of the National Guard Bureau.
Lt. Col. B.D. "Buzz" Wagner Meritorious Service Award of the B.D. "Buzz" Wagner Chapter of the Air Force Association.
CAP Leadership Award of the Civil Air Patrol, 1992.
Nathan Hale Award and the Appalachian Patriot Award from Pennsylvania military reserve organizations.
Washington & Jefferson College, Washington, Pa., Doctor of Laws, 2002.
University of Scranton, Scranton, Pa., Doctor of Laws, 2002.
Seton Hill College, Greensburg, Pa., Doctor of Laws, 2000.
Suffolk University, Suffolk, Mass., Doctor of Laws, 1998.
Indiana University of Pennsylvania, Indiana, Pa., Doctor of Laws, 1996.
U.S. Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pa., diploma, 1995.
Saint Francis College, Loretto, Pa., Doctor of Laws, 1993.
Northeastern University, Boston, Mass., Doctor of Political Science, 1991.
Mount Aloysius College, Cresson, Pa., Doctor of Humanities, 1978.
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Military Service Awards
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Distinguished Service Medal of the United States Marine Corps, upon his retirement from the Marine Corps Reserves for 37 years of distinguished service to his country, 1990.
Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977.
Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976.
Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.
Purple Heart, 1966.
Purple Heart, second award, 1966.
Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.
American Spirit Honor Medal of the Marine Corps Recruit Department, 1952.
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Other Awards
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Public Service Award from Fayette County Community Action Agency, 2001.
Friends of Education Award from the Greater Johnstown School District, 2001.
Commitment to Justice Award from the American Bar Association, presented for his sponsorship of the McDade-Murtha law that holds government attorneys to the same ethics standards as private lawyers, 2000.
Tough Choices Recognition from the Concord Coalition Citizens Council for support of fiscal responsibility in Washington, 1997.
Paul Harris Fellow award of the Rotary Foundation of Rotary International for furtherance of better understanding and friendly relations among peoples of the world, 1997.
Friend of the Farm Bureau Award from the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau, several years.
Outstanding Service to Victims of Sexual Assault award from the Alice Paul House, 1994.
Annual Award of the Citizens for the Arts in Pennsylvania, 1994.
Crime Stoppers Award of the Cambria County Chapter of Crime Stoppers, 1994.
Recognition for Support from the National Farmers Union, several years.
Goodwill Industries Award from Goodwill Industries of the Conemaugh Valley, 1991.
Legislator of the Year Award from the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Iron Ship Builders, Blacksmiths, Forgers and Helpers, 1991.
Friend of Housing Award from the Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency and the National Council of State Housing Agencies, 1990.
Appreciation Award of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, 1980.
Appreciation Award of the United Mine Workers of America, 1979.
Person of the Year Award from the Greater Johnstown Central Labor Council, 1978.
Human Rights Distinguished Service Award from the Cause of Human Rights, 1976.
Appreciation Award of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Building and Construction Trades Council, 1976.
National Bicentennial Medal from the American Revolution Bicentennial administration, 1976.
Distinguished Aviation Citizen Award of the Aviation Council of Pennsylvania, 1976.
Appreciation Award of the Pennsylvania State Police, 1978.
Honorary Member of the Punxsutawney Groundhog Club, 1975.
In addition, Congressman Murtha has received numerous local and regional awards, especially for his support of job development, health care, scouting, shelters for battered women, and the arts.
posted on November 18, 2005 05:23:44 AM
If approved by the House and Senate, Mr. Murtha's resolution would force the president to withdraw United States troops "at the earliest practicable date," which he said could be six months. Under his plan, the Pentagon would retain a quick-reaction force in the region, as well as marines within a few sailing days.
When asked about Mr. Cheney's remarks on Wednesday, Mr. Murtha replied sarcastically: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."
In the Vietnam era, Mr. Cheney had five deferments and did not serve in the military.
posted on November 18, 2005 06:12:17 AM
I can't wait for the neocon rhetoric to start... Let me guess... traitor? treason? etc... They will try and try and try to smear anyone who is in their way, no matter what.
posted on November 18, 2005 06:19:34 AM
I dont see how they can just 'drop it' and 'pull out of there' unless they want to court chaos and disaster in the Middle East. It doesnt seem feasible at all.
posted on November 18, 2005 06:29:16 AM
Dble, incase you hadn't noticed there IS CHAOS amnd DISASTER in the Middle East ...2,000 DEAD Americans is NOT disaster ??????! 15,000 MAIMED Americans is NOT a disaster ???? 65 people got blown up TODAY!!! That isn't disaster ???
Have you listened to a newscast or read a newspaper in the last THREE YEARS?
And READ, he didn't say just drop it !!! READ, Sweet Jesus open your eyes!
HERE is the Democrat plan and a good one
""""To immediately redeploy U.S. troops
consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
To create a quick reaction force in the region.
To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.
To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq""""
[ edited by mingotree on Nov 18, 2005 06:48 AM ]
[ edited by mingotree on Nov 18, 2005 07:00 AM ]
posted on November 18, 2005 07:15:52 AM
Oh yes lets withdraw our troops now and leave the Iraqi's to fend for themselves, let their civil war start and the many more thousands of Iraqi's be killed all because our left has grown old and doesn't have the guts to do what really needs to be done.
But hey if they are only Iraqi's being killed and not our soldiers, you dems don't give a crap.
We need an intelligent time line for withdrawl, not this knee jerk reactionary plan.
posted on November 18, 2005 07:34:34 AM
Another neocon who can't READ!
""""""To immediately redeploy U.S. troops
consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
To create a quick reaction force in the region.
To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.
To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq""""
""But hey if they are only Iraqi's being killed and not our soldiers, you dems don't give a crap."""
It was the REPUBLICANS in here who advocated genocide of all the Muslims....and you say NOW you care about the Iraqis ????
""We need an intelligent time line for withdrawl,"""
Which is just what Murtha DID.....the bush administration has NONE!
"" not this knee jerk reactionary plan. """
Knee jerk?...how long has this "3 week cakewalk" been going on ?
Did you READ about the man proposing this plan....does he strike you as a "knee jerk' reactionary.....try again !!!!!!
posted on November 18, 2005 09:20:57 AM
There is a very good analysis of the options on PINR
The Bush administration finds itself in a difficult position since both courses of action -- enduring the insurgency or withdrawing from it -- have clear negative consequences. Yet, if operations in Iraq continue along their current progression, Washington will be forced to pull its troops out. The United States does not have the troop strength or the political will to conduct its current scope of operations for years to come. Only two years into the intervention, calls from the American people and from lawmakers to withdraw U.S. troops are growing in force. More importantly, unlike Vietnam, the United States has not resorted to conscription, a decision that has resulted in the overextension of the military. It took the United States four years of fighting until it began to extricate its forces from the conflict in Vietnam; in Iraq, expect that time frame to be shorter.
posted on November 18, 2005 11:33:43 AM
Gee, no neocons can dispute anything ???? I'm glad to see they finally have nothing to say about their corrupt, amoral, lying, murdering party leaders.....do you think they're starting to develop ETHICS!!!
Times are a changin'
Bush does have one friend ...Putin...they have a lot in common except Putin is smart.
posted on November 18, 2005 11:46:59 AM
Mingotree what do you think To immediately redeploy U.S. troops means?
redeploy means move them out of there.
And I'm sure youre aware of what the word "immediately" means.
If you listen to top analysts who have been there and have a much better eye's view on the situation than you, then you would understand that from a long-term perspective, this is not feasible right yet. It's just not. Unless you want to watch the whole thing over there turn into a more giant sh*mess than it already is now?
posted on November 18, 2005 12:30:39 PMRepublicans Question Timing of Dems' Call for 'Surrender'
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
November 18, 2005
(CNSNews.com) -
As anti-war rhetoric erupts in Congress, Republican leaders want American citizens to consider why it's happening right now.
"Democrats have gone on the attack against the president, and the question we must ask is 'why?' The war on terror is a real war, and we have real enemies," said Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman in a speech in Denver on Thursday.
Mehlman spoke after Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), a decorated Vietnam War veteran and ranking member on the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, called for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.
Yes, run away from our enemies - think you'll be safer? The terrorist will dance in the streets at our DEMOCRATIC PARTY LED SURRENDER.
"Our military has done everything that has been asked of them; the U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily," Murtha said, adding that "it is time" to bring home the troops.
Mehlman noted that "dissent is as old as America" and that "questioning our leaders is a patriotic act. No one is immune to criticism -- not the president, and not those who are attacking him."
Cowards who won't fight our enemies....but will fight with the leader of this country trying to fight the terrorists.
But, Mehlman added, "What we need to ask is why? Why attack now? What is the goal? Are the Democrat attacks designed to help us win the war on terror -- or help them win the next election?"
very easy question....answer is obvious....the liberal democratic leaders are giving aid and comfort to our enemies.
American public 'way ahead' of Congress
In his speech on Thursday, Rep. Murtha complained, "The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction.
AGAIN, the words of a coward and a quitter.....typical of the dem. leadership...
"Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region."
Murtha said he's been "concerned" about U.S. policy toward Iraq for over two years. "The main reason for going to war [weapons of mass destruction] has been discredited," Murtha said, and he blamed U.S. intelligence failures as well as the "misuse" of intelligence.
OH....but not according to the liberal dems here or in Congress To them it's ONLY been this President's lying.
Democrat lawmakers in recent weeks have accused President Bush of manipulating pre-war intelligence to make the case for invading in Iraq. A number of Democrats who supported the war before it happened are now changing their minds, accusing President Bush of deliberately misleading them.
President Bush has called it "deeply irresponsible" for Democrats to "rewrite the history of how the war began."
Even a bipartisan Senate investigation "found no evidence of political pressure" to slant pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, Bush noted in a Veterans Day speech.
On Thursday, RNC Chairman Mehlman said for some Democrats, "It seems that the terrorist threat has receded in importance, and the chance to make political points has become the priority."
Mehlman said, "Democrats were in favor of the war when it looked easy -- and when popular opinion was behind them." "But war is never easy," he added. "And when confronted with challenges, instead of offering a solution for victory, they attack the president and hope to pick up seats in 2006," Mehlman concluded.
Murtha on Thursday said the U.S. military "has accomplished its mission and done its duty" by capturing Saddam Hussein and killing or capturing his associates.
Bet most liberals here would NEVER agree with this statement of his
"But the war continues to intensify," he said, noting the rising death and injury toll.
Murtha insisted that the war cannot be won "militarily." In fact, he said the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq has become a catalyst for violence, and as long as U.S. forces stay in Iraq, they will impede the process of having Iraqis assume security control of their own country.
'Cut and run'
In response to Murtha's comments on Thursday, House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) said he was "saddened" that Murtha and other Democrats "have adopted a policy of cut and run. "They would prefer that the United States surrender to the terrorists who would harm innocent Americans.
To add insult to injury, this is done while the president is on foreign soil," Hastert said.
The terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, changed America, Hastert noted.
"On that day, we learned that we no longer had a choice. Failure to act -- and act strongly -- left our nation vulnerable to Osama bin Laden and his band of terrorist followers. "But now, Rep. Murtha and other Democrats want us to retreat. They want us to wave the white flag of surrender to the terrorists of the world.
It is unfortunate that this is all politics all the time. We need to have a strong consistent policy that will protect our men and women who are fighting to protect us overseas. We must not cower like European nations who are now fighting terrorists on their soil."
Hastert said the biggest insult in the "get-out-now" approach is to the men and women serving overseas.
Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-Ariz.) also criticized Murtha, saying that Americans are made of "sterner stuff" than "surrender."
-------------
I agree....the liberal leaders in our Congress who are calling for our Nation to SURRENDER....are nothing but totally yellow bellied COWARDS.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2005 12:38:53 PM
The thing that bothers me most with this is, if they do this - you know that will only allow the insurgents et al to get a stronger foothold in Iraq.
Then the troops will be sent BACK there and they will be in far worst off positions than they are now.
posted on November 18, 2005 12:55:14 PM
Duh dble, the insurgents ALREADY have a stranglehold on Iraq even WITH OUR troops there dying and being maimed.!
UH what EXACTLY is the Repug plan...stay there forever and slaughter our fellow Americans for profit ???
That's what they're doing.
Don't tell me bimbo that I have to be on the ground in Iraq ...YOU aren't !
BUT I have listened to and read about people who have been and they're not paid off jopurnalists that bush uses...they're armed forces personel who know far more than YOU do.
You didn't even know there WAS chaos and disater in Iraq!
AND the slimeball leaders who sent our troops there have NO war experience....Murtha DOES!
posted on November 18, 2005 01:03:20 PMYou didn't even know there WAS chaos and disater in Iraq!
For the fourth or fifth time, it's disaster, not disater.
There is a war going on, mingotree. Its a contained chaos. But you're too stupid to understand anything beyond politicizing and trying to rattle-rapp Linda's door on Bush. There is no point even trying to discuss anything with you.
posted on November 18, 2005 02:07:44 PM Dble, you have learned well from your master...how to weasel out of answering anything when you've been proved wrong .
posted on November 18, 2005 02:41:32 PM
Today a slimeball, belly crawling Republican stood in the House and called Murtha a coward...filthy low life can't argue the topic...they attack a decorated war veteran when their leaders were too yellow bellied to even go to war.
Can't answer with a good plan of their own so attack with filth and lies...they have no morals, are totally amoral.....
posted on November 18, 2005 02:51:31 PM
I just emailed this Jean Schmidt(schit) and demanded she apologize to this country for insulting a war veteran !
She caused an uproar in the house that she will NOT live down....how ANTI-Troops can she be! Disgusting !
I reminded her what a yellow bellied coward her president was(and is)!
Bet she gets more emails....the Repugs are running scared now...she really blew it!
posted on November 18, 2005 03:05:56 PM
What's important about this is not that it may or may not happen. I don't think it will, nor do I necessarily think it should. What it will do, is start real discussion of this war in the congress, and that can't help but be a good thing.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 18, 2005 03:09:31 PM
The right is getting scared. Expect to see their pitbulls come out after Murtha. Lies will be created about him by the spin machine, just like they always do. This is an incredibly bold move by someone on the Democratic side, and I'm real pleased to see it. For once, somebody gives more of a crap about what they see as right than they do about their political career.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 18, 2005 03:10:58 PM
Meant to add, there are some republicans out there in the congress who are like minded. When they finally stand up on their hind legs and speak out, this administration and it's bogus war will be toast.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 18, 2005 03:12:55 PM
I agree, profe, with ""start real discussion ""
BUT calling a decorated war veteran a coward is NOT discussion...guess the Repugs just can't discuss it with any intelligence...so their lies are starting.
Wonder if Jeanie will answer my email...but I bet she has a few more to answer
posted on November 18, 2005 03:16:53 PM
Don't know, Mags, doesn't matter anyway..she said it...everyone will know what a scuzbag she really is with no respect for our troops whatsoever...
posted on November 18, 2005 03:17:54 PMBUT calling a decorated war veteran a coward is NOT discussion
'course it isn't, but I'm willing to wager we're going to see lots of before long. It's about all they've got left, after all.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 18, 2005 03:22:26 PM "Shut Up And Clap Louder" Doesn't Work Anymore
Wow. Has their ever been a better example of the whole Iraq War debate, and management, and accounting, in a single televised debate? Has there ever been a better example of the lengths Republicans will go to in order to shut down even the hint of a true American debate on the costs, implications, failures, and incompetence of the war?
The Republicans don't want a debate over the war. They never wanted a debate over the war. They have gone, throughout the entirety of the last four years, to great lengths to impugn the patriotism, the courage, and even the Americanness of any citizen or politician that demands any such debate from their government.
They believe merely debating the current state of the war is an act against patriotism. Cheney blusters that questioning him, or the President, amounts to being anti-American. If you're a Republican, you have only two choices in this war: Clap Louder, or Shut Up.
No, after a blocking of every avenue of debate, after questioning the patriotism of every critic, this is now the Republican War, through and through. If you're a Republican, you like this war just fine, and you don't care how long it takes, how many American troops get killed, or how incompetently the war is run. If you're a Republican, you think of the war as a vehicle of nationalist virtue, not to be questioned by the likes of fellow Americans who demand answers better than "everything is fine". If you are a Republican, you meet the calls for an exit strategy with cries of cowardice. You meet calls for investigation into prewar failures with the brazen and shallow admonishment that anyone requiring accountability for failure does not adequately "support the troops". It is raw nationalism, and raw partisanship, of the ugliest and most cowardly fashion. Men who would send the sons and daughters across the world to die for a still never-quite-defined principle, but lack the courage to themselves defend their own convictions and actions to their fellow Americans.
So now -- faced with the real threat of a debate over the war -- they turn to whatever partisan maneuvering they can muster in order to block that debate, yet again, and attack those that demanded it. Clap Louder, they demand, or Shut Up.
Democrats: Enough of this theater. Fight the fight, but if the Republicans are insistent, yet again, on turning every condemnation of administration incompetence, every questioning of administration exit strategies, and every exploration of the powerful and damaging implications of the failures of this war with cries of cowardice and antiAmericanism, just get up and leave.
"Clap Louder" is not a credible or noble "pro-American" point of view, and never was.
posted on November 18, 2005 07:29:22 PM
It is quite understandable where the Honorable Mr. Murtha is coming from, he never served in a war in which we won. He doesn't know how a war needs to be fought to win.
Perfectly understandable, he is drawing upon his experiences in which we tied a war and lost a war.
We need an intelligent time line and his ain't it.
posted on November 22, 2005 06:10:41 PM
It is quite understandable where the Honorable Mr. bush is coming from, he never served in a war He doesn't know how a war needs to be fought to win.
Perfectly understandable, he is drawing upon his experiences
We need an intelligent time line and his ain't it.
Well, the Iraqi seem to think MURTHA'S idea was a good one
I'm glad to see they finally have nothing to say about their corrupt, amoral, lying, murdering party leaders.....do you think they're starting to develop ETHICS!!!
The terrorist will dance in the streets at our DEMOCRATIC PARTY LED SURRENDER.