posted on October 25, 2000 06:26:54 AM
Bidders don't really care what it costs us. I have very few picky bidders...most of the nitpickers are shoppers. I had a some of those recently.
Maybe what some of the whiners need is a policy that states if the bidder chooses to withhold payment due to stated shipping costs, the seller will file an NPB based on the bidders violation of TOS. No haggling, move right on to the second highest bidder or relist.
posted on October 25, 2000 06:54:56 AM
phbroz - "Looking over your expenses I get a total of $1.29 (.85 insurance .44 postage for over sized bubble envelope. All the rest is a bunch of bull"
Right 'effing on!
Every now and then in the video tape trading world someone wants something but does not have anything to trade. In these cases, we ask for enough to cover the costs of the tape and actual mailing only. If we started tacking on all of these phantom costs like the original poster has tallied up for us, we would be run out of the group on a sharp rail.
If a seller feels that s/he should be paid to drive to the post office (!), then s/he should include a statement in the TOS stating that. See how many bidders show up now!
HCQ, I, and others have bandied this around for some time here. I believe the best way to keep everyone happy is state the exact S&H costs up front. If you are a "USA Only" seller, you could also include these costs in your starting price and state "shipping included" in your TOS.
posted on October 25, 2000 07:45:37 AMHOW MANY OF YOU BUYERS HAVE EVER GIVEN IT A MINUTES THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT GOES INTO PUTTING UP AN EBAY AUCTION from the sellers point of view. The time and expense? Thats the other point.
Just like many others here, I both buy and sell, so I HAVE considered the time and expense that goes into putting up an auction. Often.
I abhor handling fees and I don't charge them. Nor do I bid on items for which there is either a handling fee or the sometimes even more abusive *fixed shipping* rate, which is just another (sneakier) way of adding handling charges.
You see, the TOTAL final cost (including postage and insurance) is my REAL cost for any given item. It doesn't help me -- and in fact HARMS me -- when those costs are hidden or camouflaged.
I just consider it somewhat dishonest for a seller to try to lure me in with a low, low starting bid and make up their expenses and profits in handling fees. And I resent it, frankly.
If the seller truly has out-of-pocket expenses for bubblewrap or padded mailers (say, for books), I'm willing to pay up to $1.00 extra IF that's clearly stated in the TOS (and if I really, really want the item).
But the seller's time, energy, mileage, standing in line time, careful packing (shouldn't have to pay extra for THAT! IMO), packing materials, etc. are EXPENSES that they need to make out of the gross profit from their selling price, not hidden in something called handling fees.
If someone lists something at a buck expecting it to go higher, they need to understand (clearly) that sometimes, for some categories, for some items, that works. Sometimes it doesn't.
As for complaining, you bet I do. My job as a buyer is to pay the bill -- I DON'T have to like it, and I DON'T have to be silent about it. So on the rare occasions something slips by me and I bid on an item with handling charges (or DH does -- grrrr!), I DO complain. I don't ask or expect the Seller to change their TOS, I just point out that we try not to bid on handling charge auctions and that they're unlikely to get any more of our business.
Once in a while I also email a Seller on an active auction that I WOULD HAVE bid on his/her whatchmacallit were it not for their handling charges.
Your gross profit belongs in the minimum bid (unless you can count on super-low minimums to routinely get outbid), NOT in handling charges.
posted on October 25, 2000 07:56:07 AM
$5 an hour? Come work for me and I could save paying my sister $10. Just kidding of course, but people must realize that sellers do have to cushion fees in some terms whether it be with a higher opening price or thru shipping/handling fees. When I was selling laser pointers, I would charge a flat shipping fee for domestic orders of $3 total, regardless of the number of lasers purchased. For the people that only bought 1 or 2, I made a nice profit on shipping. Sometimes more than the profit of the laser pointer. However, on orders where I sold 50 or more, I ate the added expense and the customers appreciated the reduced cost. Out of the 1000's of lasers sold, I had only 2 complaints about the shipping cost. I proceeded to tell them that the shipping was clearly stated in the auction and that if they had ordered a much higher quantity, they would be paying the same $3 and I would lose money on shipping. They were both apologetic afterwards. Depending on what you are selling, offer combining the shipping on multiple wins for one low fee. It's a great reason for others to browse your other auctions.
posted on October 25, 2000 08:18:39 AM
I know what you mean about shipping cost.I bought this item and yhe person emailed me and said the shipping would be $7.00 so i paid it. But when the item arrived it was not in a shipping box.But the box it came in from the store when it was new and it only cost $3.65 to ship it.Boy was i mad i emailed the person and told him he was ripping me on shipping.And he said the extra was for his trouble of having to sell it and to ship it.
posted on October 25, 2000 09:00:03 AM
Hi msstone,
Without having read this whole thread, I know where you are coming from.
I run ALL my auctions at $1.00 NO RESERVE! I LOVE IT!
However....I recently ran a batch of Fishing lures all starting at $1.00. I put $3.50 S/H Priority Mail on them. Most went for very high prices.
A few went $2.50 and under.
I had one buyer get one for $1.25 and he e-mailed me and said he knew it could be shipped for $.77 and would I to save postage.
He may very well be right(and was)BUT the point is... for my own convenience I was going to use the priority boxes to ship. I figured like you, if they get the dang thing so cheap how can they complain about my shipping method.
I e-mailed the buyer back and told him I was all for shaving costs....BUT that meant I had to round up a small lightweight box sturdy enough to protect the lure, and if I found one it may not be pretty but suficient. Cost to him $1.50.
As it turned out I found several small boxes(auto parts had been in them) They were a little dirty but just the right size and heavy enough to do a sufficent job.
I used those(for 1st class)with my other buyers as well until they were gone with a postage refund in the box and an apology for the "stained" box. But for a $2.00 refund I figured they wouldn't mind.
So I guess the point is....I wasn't trying to gouge anyone for shipping and handling. The $3.50 was for a time saving convenience for me by being able to use a box that was the right size and readily available. I can't help that the item is light weight and yes...could be shipped at a much lower cost by going 1st class.
BIG boxes I have little boxes are very hard to find.
.
edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD hair Day! ...
posted on October 25, 2000 09:05:52 AM
msstone: I'm so sick and tired of reading these posts where the seller is playing their very small violin!! You can not possibly try to get me to reasonably agree with your stated "costs". If you really think that standing in line at the post office is costing you so much money, maybe your time would be better spent at a real job, where you can get paid for just sitting at your desk.
Some people take things so seriously. Now I don't sell tons of stuff on ebay, and I don't do it for a "living". But....I don't add on all these little "extras". I list my starting price as a price I'd be satisfied with. I do NOT use PayPal, I accept money orders and checks only. Business has NOT SLOWED DOWN because I do not accept PayPal.
If you did the same you would save that ungodly amount of .25.
Give me a break........
Packer: I think that was nice of you to pack your items in small boxes. I always try to save my customers money too. It has been my experience that these customers usually look at my items again. It sounds like you run a good, friendly business. Nice to know you're out there!!
posted on October 25, 2000 09:21:34 AM
I love ironies. On this thread we have sellers whining about buyers who whine.
Suggestion for handling any whiner, buyer or seller: Don't whine back. Just calmly state your position and move on. Life's too short to sweat the small stuff.
posted on October 25, 2000 10:06:27 AM
Sorry but...
I wonder why some sellers even bother with this 1.00 stuff? Of course i realize the retail value is likely a lot more than that, but if they aren't willing to pay more... Who wants to list 500 auctions (or whatever amount), pack that many items, send that many emails, etc. etc. for nothing.
The reality check is that if there's any money to be made in this business, it isn't with items that are that inexpensive, no matter how cheaply you get them, no matter how many you can sell. Your profit is adding up in nickels and dimes rather than dollars. Makes little sense.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 25, 2000 10:10 AM ]
posted on October 25, 2000 10:30:38 AM
loosecannon,
Doing this "dollar stuff" has showed me a new way to get the BIDS.
You think it isn't scary listing a $75.00(I paid)item for $1.00. It certainly is. But I'll tell you what....I can get double that and often do with just starting at $1.00.
If I were to start that at $85.00(the price I need to get) it would just SIT THERE. If I start at $1.00 with a RESERVE it just SITS THERE.
No the $1.00 starts the bidding Immediately and that generates interest and pretty soon a BIDDING WAR.
Before I started the $1.00 auctions in August my stuff just sat there and maybe and I say maybe I got my starting bid and that was it.
IT WAS NO FUN & I WASN'T HAVING ANY FUN DOING IT.
I took a chance and tried something "new" not so new to many here on AW, as here is where I got the courage to do it.
Yes, I put low dollar items in with the high dollar stuff. And it ALL does better then I could ever hope for.
As a side note...with eBay being so twitchy lately it is a real RISK doing the $1.00 auctions.
I have none currently running till they can get their sh!t together!
.
edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD hair Day! ...
You are correct, but you missed my point. I also do as you do sometimes. But not on a 5.00 or 10.00 item. For those it's 4.95 or 9.95.
I listed a nice and valuable item a few days ago for 1.00 no reserve, but I knew it would bring 450.00 plus. It went to 500.00 in a little over 24 hours. Another one I listed a few months ago I figured surely would bring 800.00 or so, so I started it at a penny no res. Brought over 1400.00. It's a lot of fun.
That is an excellent way to sell valuable and hard to get items because you just know that the bidders aren't going to let the next guy get it for cheap.
posted on October 25, 2000 12:09:51 PMmsstone: I'm primarily a seller and I do agree that a seller has to cover his shipping related costs, but you do seem to go overboard a bit.
25 cents to ebay for posting 25 cents to ebay for gallery 5 cents to ebay for comission 25 cents to pay pal for their commision
None of these have anything to do with S&H. And the PayPal fee is only applicable if the buyer pays by PayPal using credit card funds
1.50 for packing materials 44 cents postage for the oversized bubble envelope
It seems excessive for a small piece of jewelry. You mention in a later post about how well you pack, but are you sure that you're not overpacking? There is a point where adding more bubblewrap doesn't add anymore significant protection it justs adds to the cost of packaging.
Another 85 cents for insurance
It seems rather silly for a $1 item. Insurance should be optional. If you want to insure all packages then sign up with U-pic. They charge 40c for $100 of value sent by USPS.
10 minutes to type invoice and shipping label at $5.00 per hour that equals 80 cents.
10 minutes to type an invoice and label seems excessive(unless the disability you mention in a later post has something to do with that.) You should be able to do that in 1 or 2 minutes by cutting and pasting. Or you might want to get one of the auction manager programs that are frequently mentioned that automatically produce invoices.
Another 10 minutes to drive to the post office .80 cents.
This one always makes me laugh. Apparently, everybody who charges for the time that it takes to drive to the post office only takes one package at a time. If you take 10 packages, that lowers the cost to 8c per package. 20 packages - 4c per package. If you do any personal errands to or from the PO, then you should deduct all or part of the cost of the trip to the PO since you were going to have to do those errands anyway.
I think surprise is one of the biggest problems when it comes to S&H. If I pay $3.50 for an item that weighs a couple ounces then I expect it to be shipped by Priority unless it's otherwise stated. If you're going to charge $3.50 and ship first-class then say so in your ad. It eliminates the surprise and reduces the risk of having an unhappy customer.
Actually, I think $2 S&H is fair for a small piece of jewelry. Although, I don't know the specifics about the size and weight of the jewelry, so I'm just guessing.
30c for a small corrugated box
99c for 4-oz first class postage
71c for other misc costs
I don't think many buyers will be upset paying $2 S&H as long as half of it goes for postage.
posted on October 25, 2000 12:49:04 PM
All retail businesses factor cost of "getting into the customer" into both shipping and pricing.
All mail order orgs figure cost of hiring, fulfillment (how did such a nice word get co-opted by business I'll never understand) and materials into what they charge the customer for shipment. AND Pricing.
I repeated myself.
oh well.
The auctions I see starting for a buck are generally in arenas that get a lot of bidders who have never heard of the word sniping. (drats!) So prices spiral up and I wait for the next one to come along...my risk.
If I start an auction for a buck be well assured that I am doing it in those areas. Or ready to make the sacrifice. (nertz!)
I have paid flat fees for shipping and handling. But I really feel my bile rise when I see auctions using "priority" pricing and then the item arives in an envelope marked 77 cents.
It is hard to convey to the public that you have the same kind of professional intent about your cost of doing business as Eddie Bauer.
Ever buy sneakers through Road Runner sports? Or a halter through Dover Saddlery? Their shipping increases as I order more and the rates don't match anythink I would pay at the post office or what is on the package when I get it (if cost is indicated on the box).
Sorry for the ramble, it's just that shipping costs are more than what is on the package and there is no flippin' way we can educate customers to the cost of bubble wrap and waiting in line because it won't wash.
Mix it into your pricing, blend it into your shipping. But don't expect the customer to feel like they have to pay for it all. Give them value, give them "deal," give them the "I gotta have it" and they will make up for the cost in bids.
I dunno, the experimenting with opening bids and reserves can make you go crazy at times.
Capriole
(who wants to be the Nordstroms of online auctioneers)
YEAH!! What twinsoft said!! YEAH!! 