posted on November 18, 2005 11:54:50 AM new
Linda...I was asking a question to clarify what you said before I responded to it...it seemed to me to be silly to respond to a statement if, in fact, my response would not have been germaine to the statement I was responding to...you do agree that before responding one should make sure one understood the statement another was making, don't you?
I've lived in California for 52 years (most of my life), plus my daughter has been a teacher in the LAUSD for ten years now, and my sister-in-law of 20 years is a teacher, so I too am intimately familiar with teacher's pay in this state.
Admittedly teachers do not work ALL year, but then again, neither do people in private industry. In a 365 day year, those in private industry normally work 5 days a week, therefore there are 104 days (weekends) they do not work, making their work year 261 days. Then there are the normal holidays most private employees get (christmas, new years, labor day, veterens day, 4th of july, thanksgiving, memorial day, are pretty normal), this reduces their work year to 254 days a year...then there is the normal 2 week vacations most people get, making the work year 240 days.
My daughter ends her school year the last week in June and starts it again the last week in August...so this takes 60 days off a 365 day year leaving 305 days. She gets 4 weeks total for Christmas and Easter breaks, leaving 277 days. She doesn't work weekends so we can deduct 74 days for the weekends during the periods she is in school, leaving her 203 days of work. So, she works only 37 days a year fewer than non-teacher workers...hardly a "cushy" job.
She works an eight hour day just like other people do...she starts at 7Am and ends her day at 3:30PM. Plus, she frequently has to spend time at home preparing lessons for school. And of course, there is that continuing education they have to do...yes, it raises their salary, but in order to stay a good teacher she has to take courses, normally at her expense. The last several years she has either taken those courses on Saturdays or during the summer months...leaving her little time for her own family.
Don't forget that teachers also supply many things for their classrooms like books for their students to read, art supplies, classroom charts, etc, out of their own pockets.
You also mention special ed teachers...I had a friend a number of yaers ago who taught special ed...her students were all severly retarded, all were at the level of infants (I thought she was a saint for doing it!). special ed classes are a lot more demanding...the children can have severe physical disabilities, emotional disabilities, learnign disabilities...all of which require much more one-on-one teaching than a standard classroom does. But...in my search it looks like special ed teachers are on the same pay scale as all other credentialed personnel...if you have access to a salary table that shows the special ed teachers earn substantially more than regular teachers I would appreciate you providing a link so I can see the correct wages :-
When it comes to the teacher union fighting Barbara Boxer on the oil companies...I was unable to find any in depth breakdown as to the investments of either CalPERS or CalSTRS...again, I would appreciate it if you could give me a link that shows these pension funds are invested in oil stocks...I can't find it and in order to agree or disagree with your statement (point) I would need to see the proof that either pension plan was invested in oil companies (not that I disbelieve your statement, but it is always best to see the published facts before one takes a position..no?)
By the way...how do you make smileys on this board...i've forgotten how LOL!!!
[ edited by sharronn on Nov 18, 2005 12:02 PM ]
posted on November 18, 2005 12:33:50 PM new
"You also mention special ed teachers...I had a friend a number of yaers ago who taught special ed...her students were all severly retarded, all were at the level of infants (I thought she was a saint for doing it!). special ed classes are a lot more demanding...the children can have severe physical disabilities, emotional disabilities, learnign disabilities...all of which require much more one-on-one teaching than a standard classroom does. But...in my search it looks like special ed teachers are on the same pay scale as all other credentialed personnel...if you have access to a salary table that shows the special ed teachers earn substantially more than regular teachers I would appreciate you providing a link so I can see the correct wages :"
Sharon-my wifes a Special Ed teacher,and everything you said here is correct so I dont have to repeat it.Another disability and its one of the biggest concerns is Austism.These children can competely tune out or go into a fit at a moments notice.My wife has been assaulted more then once in the upper grades(7&8th)Here in N.Y. she makes $10,000 more for being a Special Ed teacher.Believe me,she earns it.Also what Linda is not considering if teachers DO get good pay is that they actually have to pay to get there job.4 years of college plus two years of graduate work adds up to quite a few bucks,AND a very LONG time your not actually making any money.If you go thru college straight thru to your masters even before you teach,that could be 5-6 years-thats 5 or 6 years not making any money which you would be at another job.PLUS the thousands of dollars you have to pay for college.I cant imagine how long it would take just to make this up.So Linda ya tell me teachers are making enough?? Please give me a break!! I dont know about the teachers union in California,but here in N.Y. my wife gets paid by the city of Yonkers,but her pension comes from the state Of New York-not from the union.
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Beauty is only a light switch away
[ edited by classicrock000 on Nov 18, 2005 12:45 PM ]
posted on November 18, 2005 01:35:58 PM new
Classic...I saw special ed from the other side of the table...my son was in special ed from 1st grade until 10th grade. I always felt the teachers deserved the pay they got...I just thought a few of them should never have been special ed teachers...but others I thought were wonderful!!
Teaching special ed at the level your wife does must be extremely dificult! At that age level regular students can be real pills, what with puberty coming on, with them starting to become independent etc, and then for the teacher to have to deal with those issues she has to also deal with a child who has special needs and probably by that age the child has begun to feel bad about himself because he isn't like everyone else...not a job I could do!!
posted on November 18, 2005 02:15:18 PM new
Absolutely! I was surprised to learn that private school teachers in my neighborhood are paid less than public school teachers and as a result private school teachers are less qualified and their students fail to meet the achievement level of public school students.
If we fail to pay teachers a good salary, good candidates for teaching positions will go elsewhere.
posted on November 18, 2005 02:39:42 PM new
classic - Are you trying to tell me that you think your wife's $93,000 a year salary isn't fair? Come on.
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sharronn - Here's a link where you can search for it a little easier. No, I'm not going to spend hours trying to find it for you. Sorry. But just so you also know that if you wish to pull up their own websites....they do have full lists which include some of the 1800 different companies they have their retirement investment portfolios in....one being Chevron and another being Exxon....but there are others too.
Here might be a good place for you to start your own research.
And...just to add....teachers get more than the standard private paid holidays off....usually in the private industry it's normally 10 days of paid vacation. Teachers get probably double/triple those 'holidays' off...
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2005 02:43:21 PM new
I have to wonder linda, why should sharronn do your research. Since the statement was made by you, it seems fair that you should provide the link if, in fact, there is one.
posted on November 18, 2005 02:47:51 PM new
" classic - Are you trying to tell me that you think your wife's $93,000 a year salary isn't fair? Come on"
Linda-she works in Westchester Co,one of the most expensive counties to live in the U.S.
If she were living in some rat hole like Kentucky,okay you have a point.
posted on November 18, 2005 02:50:32 PM new
helen....try, just once, to stay out of a request that was made to ME. If you'd like to pull up the teachers union own website for her....please feel free to do so.
bossy...bossy liberal....thinks other people can't do anything for themselves...it all has to be done for them.
Some people here are actually growups, helen....learn from them.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2005 02:52:00 PM new
"Classic, my arsenal only contains the Linda go home variety. You will have to deploy your own ammunition!"
okay Helen-give me one of those...shes being a pain in classics ass in this thread..LOL
posted on November 18, 2005 02:53:10 PM new
Ya, growup like linda....trolling for silly sex talk and giggling and wetting herself over the men in here! Ya...really grown up, lindUH!
posted on November 18, 2005 02:57:21 PM new
classic....I know different states pay teachers different wages...but so do other industries...they pay by what the 'area' commands.
I've even posted a link with all the different CA teacher salary ranges...for different areas in the state. But no one is calling for an across the board statewide, Nation wide same scale of pay for teachers.....least not that I've heard.
I would support more wage increases, in SOME school districts, IF the teachers were held accountable for actually teaching our students something. Actually teaching them so they could graduate from high school with better than a fourth grade education. Our students are failing....Nation wide....they're not learning and we've more than double the funding for the schools....which MOST goes for teacher/administrator raises anyway. It hasn't helped. When and if it ever does....I would support giving THOSE teachers ONLY...a huge pay increase. Not the ones who are failing our children/grandchildren left and right.
sorry.
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wages, not rages
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and okay Helen-give me one of those...shes being a pain in classics ass in this thread..LOL
posted on November 18, 2005 03:09:01 PM new
LOl classic....it really appears that your whining for the first time I've ever seen it.
Also what Linda is not considering if teachers DO get good pay is that they actually have to pay to get there job.4 years of college plus two years of graduate work adds up to quite a few bucks,AND a very LONG time your not actually making any money.
You're beginning to look like the liberals who use their broken crystal balls to speak about things they have no way of knowing. How do you know I've never considered the things you've mentioned? You don't.
And any job that pays close to $100,000 a year requires the same, if not more, education, time and money spent to obtain it. It's not only teachers that do that. silly
posted on November 18, 2005 03:13:46 PM new
And another thing the liberals here might find surprising besides the fact that the CA teachers retirement funds/pension are invested in BIG OIL....oh that terrible word/industry to them... they've got billions and billions invested in WALMART too. Another favorite of the lefties here. And even ebay stocks....
posted on November 18, 2005 05:54:42 PM new
Linda...I asked you for a link because you were the one who made the statement about CalPERS and CalSTRS having holdings in oil companies...since you made the statement I just naturally figured you knew where you got the information from...sorry if my presumtion was incorrect.
The links you gave didn't address my question at all
BUT...I did find a list of the holdings of CalSTRS and though they do hold stock in Chevron and Conoco (I didn't find Exxon on thier list, but my eyes were beginning to cross so maybe it is there), the depth and breadth of their stock holdings is amazing. What is also interesting is that US and Foreign stock account for 66% of their total investments...leaving 34% for other investments. Considering the number of companies they are invested in, it sure looks like oil companies make up only a small percentage of their holdings and thus, a small percentage of their income.
Taking that fact into account, I can seriously say I have to disagree that the teacher's union, or the teacher's pension plan, would be very upset if Barbara Boxer were to succeed in her proposal. The teacher's pension plan wouldn't be severly hurt if she succeeded.
you said...
"And...just to add....teachers get more than the standard private paid holidays off....usually in the private industry it's normally 10 days of paid vacation. Teachers get probably double/triple those 'holidays' off..."
I'll have to let my daughter know that she gets 20-30 paid holidays a year...I bet she will rally the rest of her fellow teachers so they can beat down the door of the principal and demand those extra holidays that have been stolen from them (you really didn't type that with a straight face did you it was just a case of extravagant exageration, wasn't it?)
[ edited by sharronn on Nov 18, 2005 05:59 PM because I also forgot how to bold something!]
[ edited by sharronn on Nov 18, 2005 06:00 PM ]
posted on November 18, 2005 05:56:10 PM new
"And any job that pays close to $100,000 a year requires the same, if not more, education, time and money spent to obtain it. It's not only teachers that do that. silly"
well thats EXACTLY my point-so why begrudged them a measly 1% raise??? To me thats an insult.
"You're beginning to look like the liberals who use their broken crystal balls to speak about things they have no way of knowing. How do you know I've never considered the things you've mentioned? You don't."
well actually I do....because if you did,you wouldn't begrudging them a 1% raise.
oh by the way,my "crystal balls" are not broken.....but ahhh thanks for your concern
posted on November 18, 2005 06:04:15 PM new
Classic, if you have "crystal balls" I hope you are very careful with them...it would be awful if they cracked or shattered in the heat of passion
posted on November 18, 2005 06:52:57 PM new
Sharron, you're learning how linda reacts when she's bested in an argument:
"" Linda_K
posted on November 18, 2005 06:39:15 PM
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To me thats an insult. Exactly. ""
Some people here are actually growups, helen....learn from them.
