And even Hillary thinks Murths resolution was wrong.
Sen. Clinton says immediate withdrawal would be mistake
By JIM FITZGERALD
Associated Press Writer
November 21, 2005, 6:11 PM EST
RYE BROOK, N.Y. -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Monday that an immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq would be "a big mistake."
While professing "the greatest respect" for Rep. Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, the ex-Marine who called for a troop pullout last week, Clinton said, "I think that would cause more problems for us in America."
On the other hand, she said, the administration's pledge to stay in Iraq "until the job is done" amounts to giving the Iraqis "an open-ended invitation not to take care of themselves."
The right approach, Clinton suggested, would be for the U.S. to await Iraq's Dec. 15 elections for a clue about how soon the Iraqis can take over.
"Until they vote for a government I don't know that we will have adequate information about how prepared they are," she said. "Then we have to tell the new government, `We're not going to be here forever, we are going to be withdrawing our young men and women and we expect you to start moving toward stability.' ... They have to know we're not going to be there forever."
"Right now Iraq is tottering on the balance," Clinton said. "It will matter to us if Iraq totally collapses into civil war, if it becomes a failed state the way Afghanistan was, where terrorists are free to basically set up camp and launch attacks against us."
Clinton, a Democrat who is running for re-election to the Senate and is viewed as a possible presidential candidate in 2008, managed a few swipes at President Bush while saying, "This is not to me a partisan political debate."
"I think we have to face up to the problems that we're confronting because of poor decision making by the administration," the senator said. "But this is our president for the next three years. My view is we have to work together to fix these problems."
"None of us wants to see a failure in Iraq," she added. "That is too dangerous for America. So we have to try to make this as successful as possible, having already recognized the numerous mistakes that were made by the administration. We are where we are. Let's try to make it as successful as we can. Let's protect our young men and women, bring them home with honor as soon and as quickly as possible."
White House spokesman Ken Lisaius said Monday: "Reasonable people can disagree about the conduct of the war ... but members of Congress saw the same intelligence and reached the same conclusions about going into Iraq."
posted on November 23, 2005 12:39:56 AM new
No they didn't mingotree, and I don't appreciate the misquoting of my words. But then it would be admiting Murtha was not the answer.
Bush has more time than you in any type of military training.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on November 23, 2005 09:55:21 AM new
Ron says,
""No they didn't mingotree, and I don't appreciate the misquoting of my words. But then it would be admiting Murtha was not the answer.""
HA! Don't have an answer again , do ya?
I did NOT misquote you(NO quotation marks) but I believe you didn't appreciate it
""""Bush has more time than you in any type of military training. ""
WOW! And this has what to do with anything ????
There are LOTS of people who don't have bush's military training(training only, too YELLOW to fight)...so they can't have an opinion...OH YES they can.
Murtha's idea are what the IRAQI's want...so again the question:
Will bush play the dictator and "Stay the Course" or listen to the DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders of Iraq and do what THEY want?
Especially since 2,100 Americans have died to make Iraq a democracy(reason #9 or 10 , I forgot)
posted on November 23, 2005 11:47:13 AM new
"It is quite understandable where the Honorable Mr. Murtha is coming from, he never served in a war in which we won. He doesn't know how a war needs to be fought to win.
Perfectly understandable, he is drawing upon his experiences in which we tied a war and lost a war."
The problem with this statement is that the Korean war started 55 years ago, so just about every current military person would have only had experience in a failed war...making the opinion of ANY military person as suspect as Mr Murtha's.
Based on the quoted post, the only people we can trust to understand how a war needs to be fought are people who are 80+ years old, since they are the only ones in our society who fought in a war that we won.
posted on November 23, 2005 12:04:07 PM new
What question did you ask mingotree, you have a need to have specifics asked of you, do you expect less from others?
Not true Sharron, Murtha is the only one coming out with a plan that won't work. General Schawrzkopf won, what does he have to say? We won the first Gulf War, or are you overlooking that?
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on November 23, 2005 12:08:24 PM new
He hasn't offered one, but unlike Murtha he has the ability to only be thought a fool because of his silence than to speak and remove all doubt.
Also you can have an opinion, but your harping on President Bush's military service is quite hypocrtical seeing as you have none yourself.
Being President doesn't require military service, that is why there is a Joint Chiefs and Many Commanders oh never mind you wouldn't understand.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on November 23, 2005 12:28:34 PM new
"Not true Sharron, Murtha is the only one coming out with a plan that won't work. General Schawrzkopf won, what does he have to say? We won the first Gulf War, or are you overlooking that? "
Did we really "win" the first gulf war? The Iraqi troops retreated and we didn't go in and get rid of Saddam...all we did was put on a good show for the television. We left the head of the Iraqi army and head of that country in place after we "won". The Iraqi military was still intact, hardly the result of a "won" war...more of a war where everything pretty much went back to the pre-war status quo.
The problem with your premise is that Murtha was trained by men who had fought in a "won" war so he isn't working from a position of failure.
The question is..how do we "win" this so called "war". Iraq didn't attack us. Until Bush declared the people of Iraq our enemy they weren't our enemy. This "war" is a product of the imagination of the current administration, a game they are playing with us. We went into this "war" with to few troops...and many in the military said so at the time. We don't seem to have any real stategy to win nor do we seem to even have a definition of what "winning this war" is.
Mr Murtha is not the only one who feels we need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible...we keep hearing from military people who also think we can't "win" this war...not everyone has bought into the President's attempts to "play war"
posted on November 23, 2005 12:39:29 PM newDid we really "win" the first gulf war?
Yes, objectives set down by the UN were accomplished. Unlike Korea. We tied.
I stand by my position, your premise that Murtha knows anything about winning a war is just your opinion as is mine to the contrary.Are you saying that all students can retain their training after years of not using it? Being trained by someone that knows how to win a war doesn't equate to being able to retain that training if you don't use it. We can go round and round though if you would like. Murtha did not offer a plan that even the democrats would vote for. It was not well laid out and actually would of hurt the Iraqi's more that helped.
We need a timeline that both the Iraqi's and we can agree with. However if the Iraqi's were to ask us to leave then that would solve all of that, however I don't see that happening as they are not strong enough to stand on their own.
President Bush "playing at War" a little facetious don't you think? Doesn't speak well for the troops over there.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Nov 23, 2005 12:42 PM ]
posted on November 23, 2005 04:45:35 PM new No matter how hard the NEOCONS try they can't SWIFT BOAT this guy.
No? They dont have to. He's LD'ed himself.
Murtha removes unfavorable troop poll
Online voters overwhelmingly opposed his call for withdrawal
The congressman at the center of the battle last week over withdrawal of troops from Iraq removed the results from his own Internet poll on the subject after online voters overwhelmingly opposed his stance.
Rep. Jack Murtha, D-Pa., posted the poll after he ignited a firestorm in the House that led to Republicans forcing a quick vote on the issue Friday.
While a revised poll page remains on the site, the link to it from his homepage has been removed, making the survey effectively invisible to the public.
A contributor to Web forum Free Republic.com, however, posted results as of 3:34 p.m. Eastern time.
Please indicate which of the following best summarizes your view on what the United States should do in Iraq:
A. We should immediately remove all troops. 1,562 votes, 12.3 percent
B. We should redeploy to the periphery of Iraq as soon as practical to protect troop safety and give the Iraqis incentive to take charge sooner, not later. 3,239 votes, 25.6 percent
C. We should maintain current troop levels until Iraq builds an army to defend and stabilize their country, even if that takes years. 6,726 votes, 53.1 percent
D. We should re-institute the national draft to increase troop levels to where we can seal the Iraqi borders and stop the passage of insurgents and insurgent-supply missions. 1,146 votes, 9 percent
E. None of the above. 3 votes, 0.0 percent
Following three hours of intense debate Friday, the House voted 403-3 to reject a non-binding resolution to immediately withdraw troops from Iraq.
Responding to Murtha, House Republicans scheduled the quick vote to settle the issue and put lawmakers on the record.
The Republican alternative by Rep. Duncan Hunter of California read: "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately."
Democrats accused Republicans of changing the meaning of Murtha's proposal. The Democrat hawk has said a smooth withdrawal would take six months.
At his press conference Thursday, however, Murtha stated: "I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice: The United States will immediately redeploy – immediately redeploy."
Democratic New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apparently interpreted Murtha's stance as a call for immediate withdrawal, saying such a move would be a "big mistake."
) but I believe you didn't appreciate it
