posted on November 26, 2005 08:46:37 AM new
A thanksgiving thread turned into clubbing seals.
Those are pretty awful pictures. But here in WA, they let the native Americans hunt whale, not sure if they'll do it again, but it is their tradition/custom.
And kraft, have you ever took any medication? I believe researchers need lab rats to use in research, else we would not have some life saving medications.
And I beleive hunters should be able to hunt. Yes, there would be an over population of deer if they didn't. there would be so many they would be starving, so which is worse?
posted on November 26, 2005 09:11:53 AM new "And I beleive hunters should be able to hunt. Yes, there would be an over population of deer if they didn't. there would be so many they would be starving, so which is worse?"
The only problem is when that line of reasoning is applied to the problem of human over-population.
posted on November 26, 2005 10:01:44 AM new
We enjoyed a great Thanksgiving day and meal with a larger group of people that we first expected to have for dinner...so that made it even nicer. Half the group helped cook....the other half helped clean up. Nobody overate so no moaning 'I ate too much' after this wonderful meal.
posted on November 26, 2005 11:55:39 AM new
Lab rats? Near, our own University of Western Ontario was housing primates for study. They lived in tiny cages all their lives and were subjected to horrendous tests. One in particular, was 30 years old. They also do experiments on cats and dogs and they live in cages no bigger than a shoebox.
I understand vivisection (I hate it) but I don't understand why the living conditions of these animals, that give their lives to science, have to be so horrible and cramped.
posted on November 26, 2005 07:55:15 PM new
kraft, yes lab rats, lab monkeys, whatever. I'm sure you would like to see a cure, or better treatments for AIDS, Cancer, ALS, Luekemia, and all the other awful diseases. If so, you will have to accept that research is done on animals, unless you come up with a better answer to test meds and treatment??
posted on November 26, 2005 08:35:07 PM new
I can't deal with this subject. I love animals and can't bear to think of cruelty to them.. but I know they are necessary for research..
I had to have my two yorkies put down this Summer...it was the most difficult thing I have ever had to do.. they were my constant companions for 14 years....my vet told me that their purpose here on earth was to be our friends and companions... but that they didn't have souls..there was no place for them in heaven etc. I thought that was strange for him to say...I'm not an overly religious person, so I asked him how did he know that? He said, it was in the scriptures...
Anyhow...it made me uncomfortable to think that this very caring, trusted vet basically thought of animals as objects of amusement for us..and nothing more...it still confuses me...
posted on November 26, 2005 09:23:46 PM new
Near, you missed my point. If experimenting on animals is necessary, then we should provide them with comfortable living quarters at the very least.
Maggie, surely you don't believe that crap? Another example of how egotistical mankind is regarding his place as king of everything. Animals have more of a soul than many people I know. I'm very sorry about your dogs. Nothing can replace them.
posted on November 26, 2005 09:31:58 PM new
No Krafty.. I don't believe that! I was just so shocked and bewildered that my trusting vet who is such a staunch religious Southern Baptist would say such a thing with such conviction. They were my babies and every bit as important to me as other family members.
I found it totally bizarre that a person who has worked with animals all of his life, could come to that conclusion. Or why he would think what he said would be a comfort to me???
posted on November 27, 2005 05:39:11 AM new
maggie, If my vet said such nonsense, I'd be highly suspect of all his decisions regarding my animals from that point on. Change vets, really.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 27, 2005 05:58:23 AM new " but that they didn't have souls..there was no place for them in heaven etc"
Why he would volunteer that information is a very good question especially during the emotional crisis of having your dogs put to sleep. In effect when you needed some comfort from your religious belief, he was denying that it exsisted....a very inappropriate and highly unusual remark.
posted on November 27, 2005 07:32:04 AM new "I'd be highly suspect of all his decisions regarding my animals from that point on."
Although I would consider the "no heaven for dogs" comment as inappropriate, I wouldn't change vets based on that statement alone. But under no circumstances would I take my dog to a vet who expressed support for George Bush. All of his decisions regarding my animal would be suspect from that point on.
posted on November 27, 2005 08:46:02 AM new
kraft, I do not know what the living conditions are of all animals. We also have a large research lab here.
I do know that its wrong to let the animals loose, and then torch the lab. I'm talking about the group who doesn't believe in having them as research. Alf? well like Elf-Earth Liberation (something) who do destroy buildings. (and other things)
Anyway, Maggie, the vet was wrong. He shouldn't get away with saying that.
We had and have animals. Yes we did raise cows and pigs for meat, but we had dogs, cats, and horses.
I have a 19 year old cat. I look at that cat, and think he is so old, and how will I deal with it if anything happens. I take him often to the vet (which happens to be my daughter) and have his blood work done etc. He still wants outside, and I think that is what keeps him going all this time, is his independence. He's always been an outdoor cat during the day, and indoor at night. I am afraid everyday for him.
Anyway, kraft, I don't know what should be done with animals for research or animals for slaughter. I know we didn't keep our animal for slaughter in tiny cramped areas. We had a large area for them all.
posted on November 27, 2005 01:18:56 PM new"But under no circumstances would I take my dog to a vet who expressed support for George Bush."
LMHO!
Near, I agree 100% about destroying property and hurting people just because you don't like what they do or represent. People that do that are losers. And don't get me going on your cat (tears). I still have feelings for the dog you lost as few years back.
posted on November 28, 2005 05:34:45 PM newSo Kraft you're still complaining about what the U.S. does,no matter what it is...lets take a look at how Canadians treat their animals.
Those pictures will be what happens in the Alaskan Wildlife Reserve now that Bush wants to drill for oil up there.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on November 28, 2005 05:38:07 PM newmy vet told me that their purpose here on earth was to be our friends and companions... but that they didn't have souls..there was no place for them in heaven etc.
Maggie, I hope you asked your vet how he planned to get into heaven since he does not have a soul either. I would never go back to that vet again if my vet told me that.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
