posted on December 14, 2005 08:50:15 PM
Can someone, anyone accurately explain what God is?
Yes it is a trick question, in a manner of speaking. Logically thinking, there is only one possible answer to this question. Does anyone know the answer?
posted on December 14, 2005 09:21:30 PM
I don't know what God is Pi but I think the reason I have a problem with the concept of god personally is that for all of the religious people I have known "he" seems to be a very convenient scapegoat. Sometimes it's in a positive way, sometimes in a negative but it turned me off.
It's always seemed to me that among the most religious people I have known "he" became a venue thru which they could relinquish responsibilty. If things went wrong in their life, it was not because they should have done something differently but because it was "gods will". We had a houseparent at my boarding school that said that he was employed at the school becuse it was "gods will". Apparently god had willed this man to embezzle from his former employer causing him to lose his job and his home so that he would be open to taking a job that provided living space. That's one of the more extreme examples but you know what I mean.
I think for other people God is cushion or a shoulder to lean on. Lets face it, it's much more comforting to believe that the soul of a loved one lives on when they die and it helps to move past loss.
I think that god is to each individual what they need "him" to be. So the definitions will be as varied as the number of people polled.
Personally, I am not religious and I don't know that I believe in "god". Maybe it's just that too many people pushed thier definition of this wonderful compassionate all loving protecting individual on me and I had a hard time reconciling that kindly protective grandfather image with the reality of what was going on in my life because I found it hard that to believe that a kindly protective grandfather was going to allow a kid to go thru what I was going thru. I was young ans I tried to find out more about different religion and get into the whole thing but nothing got any better and rather than finding comfort in "god" I found resentment and eventually I took on the attitude that Krafty expressed in the last part of her opening post.
What can God do for you that you can't do yourself?
Eventually I just decded I had gotten myself this far without help and when i asked for it it din't come so my energy was much better directed inward than upward.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 15, 2005 06:45:15 AM
The sheer unsubstantiated fantasy involved in a belief in God along with the hypocrisy and bigotry found in fear based religion led me to reject it. With love together with knowledge a good life is possible without a belief in God.
posted on December 15, 2005 09:15:56 AM
Nearthesea,
The other thread titled "Prayer" was started by KD for her seriously ill father in law.
Linda chose that thread about KD's family member near death from cancer to question KD's belief in god and to call KD an airhead and a pot user.
posted on December 15, 2005 09:31:03 AM
NTS, just to summarize the other thread: Kraftdinner, an atheist, was asking for prayers for a sick relative. The usual name-calling ensued when some other posters pointed out the hypocrisy in that statement.
The debate really boils down to whether or not asking for prayers is a religious thing or just a figure of speech like saying your thoughts are with them.
Personally, I think if I were a true atheist I wouldn't use that phrase. You cannot just turn God on and off when you need him.
The argument was very inappropriate in a thread dealing with a sick relative, so someone started this one just for the religious debate.
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Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on December 15, 2005 09:51:07 AM
It was a nitpicking consideration to make in a thread about a family members critical illness and inappropriate to say the least.
I don't even consider it a topic worthy of debate.
posted on December 15, 2005 12:36:47 PM"sounds like you're spending too much time with your family,instead of us in here.....what the hells up with that??????????"
Classic - He's right, Near.
Fenix, I read your post just before I went to bed last night. It's perfect. You have one great head on your shoulders and again, I really admire the way you're open for discussion.
"The sheer unsubstantiated fantasy involved in a belief in God along with the hypocrisy and bigotry found in fear based religion led me to reject it. With love together with knowledge a good life is possible without a belief in God."
posted on December 15, 2005 12:44:01 PM
See, KD, this is a GREAT example of what I mean about what you always do....and just what dbl pointed out to you too....your confusion.
Here you stated you believe in God....then just now...tell helen great post after she just disagreed with your statement totally. [I believe in God]
Imho, you are VERY confused. Have been all the years I've known you here and continue to be on the subject of God and religion.
Quoting you:
Quoting helen and then your response:
"The sheer unsubstantiated fantasy involved in a belief in God along with the hypocrisy and bigotry found in fear based religion led me to reject it. With love together with knowledge a good life is possible without a belief in God."
Great post, Helen!
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 15, 2005 12:46 PM ]
posted on December 15, 2005 01:24:42 PM
Linda, I'm not confused at all. I just don't have the same God as you or Double. Mine isn't a super human man or person, a judge or a controller of everything that happens. Mine isn't even close to that. As I said before, perhaps God is unique to everyone.
As for Helen's post, you just don't get it - maybe you never will.
Since no one here knows Him personally, not one person here can be said to be right or wrong.
KD
I don't believe in organized religion. There's too much conflict within those organizations and I'm not comfortable with that. Baptists believe one thing; Catholics another. Each one claiming to be the "true" religion. They can't all be the true religion.
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on December 15, 2005 01:58:25 PM
I agree, Cheryl. It's like a religious contest anymore. It boils down to if you don't believe the Bible was written via God's hand, or that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, you have no foundation for any other road of thought or belief. Isn't that being closed-minded?
posted on December 15, 2005 02:15:18 PMTHERE you will find not your 'description' of what prayer is to you, but rather the one all those who actually 'pray' to their God and just who they are praying to. It's not to themselves or a rock...it's to their God, a God they actually believe in.....or a diety.
So if you don't pray the way the dictionalry says to, you're not really praying. Oh brother.
That's why I find it so extremely funny when you say you believe in God....but when asked to describe that you give no God known to man....just your own idea about some 'made up' enity
KD's concept of god is no more "made up" than anyone else's. Unless you have some empirical proof that one established religion's godhead is the actual one, you're full of it.
If you would go and do some reading by religious philosophers, for example Teilhard de Chardin, a catholic priest, or almost any other writer from almost any other faith, you will note quite readily that they all speak of a personal relationship with god. In other words, they all speak of an individual coming to his own, personal conclusions of what and who god is. This, in my opinion is the essence of sprituality, the essence of true religion. Prayer is personal, not something defined by a dictionary. What an apalling denigration of something so powerful.
It's utterly unbelievable to me that anyone here could tell another person that their religious beliefs were wrong, or invalid, or "confused" simply because they don't fit into that person's set of beliefs. What prejudice, what bigotry. Kraft has been called an atheist, when she clearly is not. Not to denigrate atheism either, a perfectly rational conclusion that many have come to.
On the other hand, you started this KD, looks to me like you were lookin' fer a fight, not a conversation, so I guess your comeuppance is to be called all them things like athiest and such.
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Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on December 15, 2005 02:37:42 PM "On the other hand, you started this KD, looks to me like you were lookin' fer a fight, not a conversation, so I guess your comeuppance is to be called all them things like atheist and such"
I don't believe that "atheist" is a pejorative word...although it may seem that way to someone like linda. She is quick to point out to her perceived audience that I am an atheist with no right from her ignorant and narrow minded viewpoint to quote from the Bible.
posted on December 15, 2005 02:58:23 PMI just don't have the same God as you or Double. Mine isn't a super human man or person, a judge or a controller of everything that happens..
ohh, so I dont understand YOUR God, and shouldnt judge you, but you understand perfectly well MY GOD (that you know nothing about) and can judge me?
And if its not a contest then why do you need to mock what you THINk is somebody else's God - therefore, clearly making your God being the better choice? Youre such a hypocrite!
posted on December 15, 2005 03:03:22 PMI agree, Cheryl. It's like a religious contest anymore. It boils down to if you don't believe the Bible was written via God's hand, or that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, you have no foundation for any other road of thought or belief..
And you cant even distinguish between "Religion" and "Christianity" - you are very confused. There are lots of "religions" in the world, not just ones that subscribe to the bible, or that Jesus Christ was God. Grow up and get a grip on reality.
He's right, Near.