posted on December 31, 2005 02:04:56 PMWhether or not you agree with me and my opinions, it's really nice to see some can be open enough to understand we don't all think alike and we don't all see things in the same way. AND that that doesn't make us WRONG
Well Linda, seems to me, Little Ms. feens here is determined to make you see the error of your ways regarding your opinions on homosexuality.
To me, you dont like it; you dont like it. period. Same as others who shun or choose not to accept religion or a God. What she fails to see is she is being just as dogmatic about it. Its Not your right to choose to dislike the whole concept of homosexuality.
But for the marketing genuis she says she is, I dont know how she can want to say the movie - out in theaters in 2005/2006 has nothing to do with the gay marriage issue. Everybody knows the quickest filter into the minds of mainstream culture, is influenced by movies and the media. She expects you and others to feel the sympathy for the characters she feels. Too bad if its just not so.
posted on December 31, 2005 02:30:15 PM
I don't agree, Double. If a person can't explain why they don't like something, you have to question the basis of their beliefs. Not liking religion is easy to explain. Not liking gays isn't, imo.
posted on December 31, 2005 02:39:23 PM
kraft, imo, the gay lifestyle has its own sub-culture in this country. Why should anyone have to accept or like it? Just like religious subcultures. You balk at one, somebody else balks at the other. I dont see any difference.
posted on December 31, 2005 02:53:37 PMI have many times explained my position to you...
yes, but youre not supposed to be smart enough to figure out that anyone who sees this movie should be sympathic. Whether intentional or not, it will influence how some will think about the gay marriage issue when it comes up again.
posted on December 31, 2005 03:18:04 PM
Linda, what is the game part? I know what you've said about gays... it's immoral, it's not natural, it ruins traditional marriages, etc., etc. I realize your belief comes from the Bible and that's fine. But isn't it also fair for me to question those beliefs? Not yours necessarily, but those who are against gays in general? Could it be that some use the "fact" the Bible states it's wrong because they don't know why they feel it's wrong otherwise? Could it be their reasons stem from their own sexual hang-ups? Could it be ignorance of the gay lifestyle? Saying God says it's wrong just seems like a blanket statement anymore.
posted on December 31, 2005 05:12:28 PM
::Well Linda, seems to me, Little Ms. feens here is determined to make you see the error of your ways regarding your opinions on homosexuality.::
And it seems to me that Dbl is attempting to put words in my mouth. I don't believe that you can find anywhere in here where I have attempted to change Lindas opinion of homosexuality. Are you not able to differenciate between discussing the plotline of a movie and discussing an individual views on homosexuality?
I acknowledged her views in my last post but I made no attempt to change them or judge her on them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Dec 31, 2005 05:13 PM ]
posted on December 31, 2005 05:16:16 PM
fenix, you can word it anyway you want, its very obvious you do take exception to her views on homosexuality. And telling somebody they are projecting 'fears that have no basis' is quite judgemental. Who you trying to kid, I dont know but it aint me.
posted on December 31, 2005 05:56:21 PM
Of course I know and disagree with her views. The issue at hand was your accusation that I made some attept to change them....
[i]Well Linda, seems to me, Little Ms. feens here is determined to make you see the error of your ways regarding your opinions on homosexuality.
[/i]
I have done no such thing. If you feel that I have, please feel free to quote where in this thread this has happened.
Sorry Dbl - I have been discussing a movie. You are the one that seems to be unable to differenciate between and fiction.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Dec 31, 2005 05:58 PM ]
posted on December 31, 2005 06:29:51 PM
Of course you are Dbl because you have made an accusation that you are incapable of supporting and rather than having the class to admit it you decide to play this stupid childish game of yours. Not exactly something new or surprising.
Happy New Year.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on December 31, 2005 06:56:49 PM
I made my point. I dont need to support any accusation to you - you've as much admitted to it. You are biased and judgemental of someone who doesnt approve of the gay lifestyle.
If you go back and read your own posts you've said as much. It's not so difficult to see it there. So you cook your own goose then you want to manipulate some childish "tell me where I said" game, and you call me the childish one? LOL! Nah, dont think so..
posted on December 31, 2005 07:01:35 PM
No kraft, "they" have made up their mind they have no sympathy for gay relationships. They dont like the movie, they dont like its influence on the mainstream culture -- and you dont like that and cannot deal with it.
posted on January 1, 2006 05:38:43 AMThey dont like the movie, they dont like its influence on the mainstream culture
Then do not go and see the movie. Nobody is forcing you to go and see it.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 05:47:57 AMBut isn't it also fair for me to question those beliefs? Not yours necessarily, but those who are against gays in general? Could it be that some use the "fact" the Bible states it's wrong because they don't know why they feel it's wrong otherwise? Could it be their reasons stem from their own sexual hang-ups? Could it be ignorance of the gay lifestyle? Saying God says it's wrong just seems like a blanket statement anymore.
KD, you have every right to question someone's belief especially when they start to pick and choose parts of the Bible they base their beliefs upon.
Sure, the bible says homosexuality is immoral, but there are tons of other things in the Bible that are immoral - abortion, divorce, hate, prostitution. The religious right selectively wants to choose which parts of the Bible that want to belief. The religious right would rather focus on those acts that they deem as immoral and destructive instead of promoting the true message of Jesus.
I would love to hear from those on the religious right where Jesus taught hate and said it was OK to discriminate. People like Reverend Phelps promotes hate and bigotry and then also has the nerve to call himself a Reverend. I personally belief the religious right actions lead to hate crimes in this country.
Furthermore, I also believe it was the religious right that persecuted Christ. Why because Christ was different. He did not hold their beliefs or fit into their moral behavior.
It doesn't surprise me that the states with the most hate groups can be found in the south/south eastern part of this country. The same place where the Bible belt is located.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 05:54:59 AMLinda, who's shoving anything down your throat?
Yet another no reponse from Linda. She does not have any proof to back up her claim.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 05:57:25 AMIm sure logansdad has seen it-after seeing it 7 times in a row,they probably had to drag him out of the movie theater.
How did you know. You must have also been there in theather watching it, if you knew all that information.
I hoped you learned a thing or two by watching the movie.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 06:47:38 AMespecially when they start to pick and choose parts of the Bible they base their beliefs upon.
Logans what makes you think they are picking and choosing? Why arent they buying the 'whole thing' hook line and sinker, which includes believing homosexuality is immoral?
Furthermore, I also believe it was the religious right that persecuted Christ.
Well, yes, but if you are to comprehend the story as taught by Chrisians - it was all part of the greater design. IOW, somebody had to be the bad guy for what was supposed to happen.
Personally, I dont care if somebody is gay or its effects on society. But I will support somebodys right to to say what they think and hold fast to an opinion on that. It is the same premise as religion. You dont want religion shoved down your throat to the point where it is an issue if anything in govt/public has something to do with God, but yet youre totally up in arms if somebody wants to say a movie about gays will have a bad impact on the overall morality of society. What bothers me is the left has its very own fixations of what is right and acceptable, but is always crying that its only the right that does.
posted on January 1, 2006 07:27:23 AMIt's interesting how similar fundamentalists are throughout the world
Yes, it is. It is even more interesting to me that even certain liberalism in its own grand scope is just as fundalmental. But so many seem to be blind to that. Take for instance Krafts proclaimation: Not liking religion is easy to explain...Not liking gays isn't, imo.
Lol! Like, it's quite simple. I choose to approve of one and disapprove of the other. But you dont have that very same right!
posted on January 1, 2006 09:12:17 AMLogans what makes you think they are picking and choosing? Why aren't they buying the 'whole thing' hook line and sinker, which includes believing homosexuality is immoral?
They are picking and choosing - all you hear from the religious right is that homosexuality is wrong and is immoral because that is what it says in the Bible. When the religious right discusses anything gay related you never hear the religious right say God loves the person, but hates the sin. They say all gays are sinners and are going to he**. They can not separate the individual from the act itself.
The religious right never talks about God making everyone in his own image. Why would god make gay people then? Was God himself Gay? (I don't expect an answer).
You never hear the religious right say Jesus said to love everyone equally. You never hear the religious right say that hate and discrimination is not what Jesus taught. You never hear the religious right talk about the times Jesus spent with the outcasts/sinners (prostitutes, lepers) of his time. You never hear the religious right say "Judge not least you be judged".
So based on the above, I strongly believe those on the religious right pick and choose what the parts of the bible that fit their agenda. All of the above this are what Jesus taught and can be found in the Bible. This is why I think those on the religious right are big time hypocrites.
Lastly, you never heard Jesus himself condemn homosexuality. Yes it is written in the Bible, but did Jesus himself say those words? I would like someone on the religious right to point where Jesus himself said something negative against homosexuality.
You also have to remember, the bible was written by others. It was not written by Jesus himself. Nor was written exactly at events took place. Most of the bible was written after the fact and had to be written from memory. While the bible may describe the events, the writers own personal opinions/views are also included in his interpretation of what took place.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 09:17:19 AMThis opposition to the issue of gay rights is backed up by the The American Taliban
Thanks Helen for posting that.
Now where are those that want to deny the religious right has an agenda.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 09:22:03 AMWhat bothers me is the left has its very own fixations of what is right and acceptable, but is always crying that its only the right that does.
Everyone has their own personal views on what is or is not acceptable behavior. You will not be able to please everyone. However those on the right use fear and religion to try to spread their views because they feel religion is the answer to society's problems.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 1, 2006 09:25:16 AM
Well LD your the first to make the list this year. You've made the new Post of the day list too:
LD writes:
"Furthermore, I also believe it was the religious right that persecuted Christ. Why because Christ was different. He did not hold their beliefs or fit into their moral behavior.
It doesn't surprise me that the states with the most hate groups can be found in the south/south eastern part of this country. The same place where the Bible belt is located. "
The religious right persecuted Christ? How in Gods name did you come up with that?
You say everyone else promotes hatred and you’re doing just that in this post, against the fine people of the South and Southeast.
If you check you will find that most of the Aryan nation and White Supremacy groups are in the mid west and west coast.
Christ was different. In one post you don't believe in Christ and say he's a phony (paraphrasing) in the next you use him as a shield.
But above all remember“He wasn’t gay and didn't like gay cowboy movies.”
posted on January 1, 2006 10:14:24 AMHowever those on the right use fear and religion to try to spread their views because they feel religion is the answer to society's problems.
How so, logans? They are not allowed to mention God in schools, they want to take down the 10 commandments on public property, etc. etc. What I see, is they are pushing back - against, what they see as being taken away from them.
The total gay population is about 15%, yet, if a gay guy wanted to dress up and queen or flame a classroom he is teaching, there is no law against it. Thats his gay right, right? Regardless to whether the parents want their kids to think that is acceptable behavior or not. Then at the same time, the 70% of people who want an open expression about a belief in God are being told in essence to hush up about it.
There is really something wrong with this picture.
I have often said I like the show Will and Grace. You know why I like that show? Because they are honest about the gay lifestyle. Its like this is who we are, yeah, were freaks, so what? The humor at the sterotypes is so over the top if you cant laugh at it you really are a stick in the mud. They make fun of themselves, every ethicnicity and behavior going, and they do it for laughs. They dont try to make it acceptable it or not. But I think when you try to invoke deeper emotions about gays,like this movie does, people begin to question the motives of why.
posted on January 1, 2006 10:40:41 AMWhy should anyone have to accept or like it? Just like religious subcultures. You balk at one, somebody else balks at the other. I dont see any difference.
There is NO difference....just what THEY approve of is allowed...not what others believe.
-----------------
logansdad made another UNTRUTHFUL statement....he said we never see anyone here saying 'God loves the sinner, but hates the sin'. It has been stated here many, many times....and I believe I've even posted it a time or two.
Logansdad lives in denial of what really has been said....changes the statements of others into what HE see's as 'hatred'. It's not hatred coming from me, it's total disapproval of his gay agenda. And he choses to not accept that, as do many others here. But it's my/our choice to feel/believe how WE want to about it. Screaming, name calling, making up sexual perverions about others only intensifies those feelings against their agenda.
LOL
