posted on November 5, 2000 09:25:23 PM
This is a troll thread. The whole story was fabricated to put heat on the wannabe detectives. My opinion.
Now maybe the detectives deserve to take a little heat, at least shinning a little light on them seems justified but I'm sure not going to make judgements or draw solid conclusions based on the "evidence" posted here.
IMO this is a blatently obvious attempt to discredit the detectives. I have lurked and read over there (eBay Detective Agency) and for the most part people seem genuinely interested in trying to help eBay get rid of the bads guys. I don't like the idea of volunteer amateur detectives policing eBay and I wish eBay would take over and police its own site. However, eBay hasn't as yet done it so this group and others will continue to exist. Until eBay decides to do it's own police work somehow, there will be helpers of one sort or another to "lend a hand". Like it or not.
I don't have the answer as far as this group of detectives goes but I give this thread a credibility rating of a minus 3 on a scale of one to ten. JMO
posted on November 5, 2000 09:31:48 PM
glenda: oh, its all the rage with the net-literati, what in old fashioned times was referred to as propaganda, influence, etc.
posted on November 5, 2000 09:42:10 PM
Hi RM--thanks for the pumpkin jigsaw. Give Maddie girl girl pats from Aunt Sandy!
Radh, seriously, be careful, okay? Sometimes outspoken people take it right in the teeth. Don't want that to happen to you, okay?
Helen, you wanted to know what else was going on with the EDA. I am telling you. We are in charge of ALL those small packages. And we figure that if we win the Bakeoff, we can buy our own server and then NOBODY can tell us what to do. BWAHAHAHAHA!
posted on November 5, 2000 11:50:47 PM
Memes, shills, vigilanteism!
We have it all!
LOL!!
Nic or Shendra or Jerry12 or whoever you are
LMAO!
I have emailed bidders telling them they have been shilled and told them how. I have emailed sellers telling them they were bid shielded.
And I have emailed safeharbor. Sometimes Safeharbor is bad enough to make you weep. The canned response and lack of effort.
Radh, there is a lot of goopy sticky stuff out there and people are getting ripped off.
A lot of people I talk to about ebay seem to treat it like a department store, without really understanding that until you get to know the seller, you are up against some issues greater than trust.
Ebay should be minding the store - hear that kevin pursglove? This is the natural evolution until some real law and order get onboard.
And now that there is a slump at ebay and the economy isn't such a rock-n-roll party some of the sleazoids start coming out in force.
Denial has caused this vacuum.
Oh and I love how ebay says they haven't found much shilling...or other fraud.
Good gravy.
There is a difference between a group of collectors - I can count on several of the same bidders in several auctions I bid on - and low feedback anonymous emails on items that just aren't selling.
DENIAL! And until ebay takes action, the freakshow will continue.
trolls 1 capriole 0
Not capriole on ebay or anyplace else because I am not going to give anyone the right to mess my auctions etc. Blah!
posted on November 5, 2000 11:59:25 PM
"And I have emailed safeharbor. Sometimes Safeharbor is bad enough to make you weep. The canned response and lack of effort."
Man, do you have THAT right!
I nailed a shill dead to rights, spent close to an hour researching the fine details (including InterNIC Whois registration data), gave them bidding patterns, last names, etc. etc. etc.
They gave me the standard dose of canned air.
I replied with *more* corroborating evidence.
They finally shot back a handwritten letter. It was a FOAD message:
=======================================
[deleted to avoid invoking their wrath
any futher than I already have by reporting
shill bidding]
=======================================
Well, that's it for me, folks.
When I find a shiller, I'll just look the other way, and keep on walking.
It ain't worth the grief, it ain't worth the work, it ain't worth the time, and it sure as hell ain't worth being insulted and told to shut up when I try to help.
No good deed shall go unpunished.
The corrolary is "no more good deeds".
That slap in my face was it.
Does ebay *want* shillers?
They say they don't. But all I can say about their actions is that I'm dumbfounded.
People wonder why no one did anything about Kitty Genovese. Well, I think I'm starting to get a good idea of why.
--
Not sourpuss on eBay.
[ edited by sourpuss on Nov 6, 2000 12:06 AM ]
posted on November 6, 2000 12:21:26 AM
oh good Lord, an ebay detective agency, and not thru ebay.
And like I believe I read above, people let safeharbor know about shilling and get canned responses, so what does this ebay detective agency get? Or rather what do they do? Is the ebay detective agency have more pull with ebay? Or do they do thier own 'work' here? And if they do their own work, what is it they do????????
The EDA God! almost like the FDA or the FBI, and on an ezboard? Are the members disgruntled buyers or sellers? Can anyone 'join' .... secret handshake or what?
I have repeat bidders (LOTS) and bidders bidding on more than one item, does this mean I am shilling? No, and I never have.
posted on November 6, 2000 12:52:39 AMShellyHerr:... people let safeharbor know about shilling and get canned responses, so what does this ebay detective agency get? Or rather what do they do? Is the ebay detective agency have more pull with ebay? Or do they do thier own 'work' here? And if they do their own work, what is it they do????????
I seriously doubt that anybody in the group - or on any board - gets anything other than the standard kind of responses (they're not all canned, of course) from SafeHarbor. In the past, I gather that they "reported" them on the Trust and Safety Board, and then more people went and looked and talked about it and investigated ... and talked about it. And some, maybe all, of the findings were also reported to SafeHarbor (and then any answer was posted on the board so people talked about it some more). They're probably still doing the same thing, just not in public. Group dynamics at work.
Mind, I think education is a good idea, and discussing general "what if" and even general "is this" are okay. What I don't think is a good idea is when people don't realize that there are potentially thousands of people reading what they've written, and that these people don't always read all the way to the end where the conclusion is posted that there wasn't a problem.
"Apparently, you are unable to compose a straightforward message and can only hide behind cryptic nonsense.
"Take your "cake" and your "Jimmy Hoffa body parts" and your veiled threats and stuff it all."
is insulting and a violation of the AuctionWatch Community Guidelines. I'm issuing you an informal warning. I urge you to read the CGs carefully before posting again.
posted on November 6, 2000 06:44:59 AM
isworeidneverdothis said: Radh, seriously, be careful, okay? Sometimes outspoken people take it right in the teeth. Don't want that to happen to you, okay?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I didn't realize until I re-read that -- that maybe it's a PUBLIC Announcement - to keep all but your ANTI-eBay opinions and thoughts to yourself, or something bad will happen requiring your dentist.
posted on November 6, 2000 07:02:23 AM
Well, The goal of this individual was to
insult me and issue threats, But she has managed to evade
the moderators admonitions. Why is that?
[ edited by HJW on Nov 6, 2000 07:04 AM ]
Capriole: I am quite aware that there are crooks out there, both near & far.
AND, even like isworeidneverdothis *HINTS*, vocal people can have their teeth bashed in.
Capriole --- the pages upon pages upon pages upon WEEKS AND WEEDS of messages I read -- a substantial proportion were the g0 *bonkers* and BASH eBay variety - there were repetitive outcries that ebay did NOTHING.
eBay does NOTHING.
People are hurt by shills.
eBay does NOTHING.
People are HURT BY SHILLS.
When I asked, "SO WHAT IF EBAY DOES NOTHING?WHY HAVEN'T YOU REPORTED THEM TO THE FBI, YOURSELF?"
They have tried to run me off the board ever since, and now I guess they are outright ordering me to SHUTUP or someone will come to my 3-D door and bash my teeth in.
posted on November 6, 2000 07:30:20 AM
Guess I'll have to don my asbestos suit and be "nice" to the online
militia or I may loose my teeth also. Wow! This is awesome.
None of the little weasly types that inhabit the ranks of the crusaders have the fortitude to do other than hide behind their screens. It does make them feel good. There will be a noticable lack of postings from them during 'normal' working hours as they realize that their some of their names are known and they are in danger of being outed on the job. Many employers look upon using the on the job resources for such things as theft, and the Federal Gov't has particularly strict guidleines that proscribe such practises.
I do feel and am of the opinion that cyber/iswore/ginger/sandy made a veiled threat in that last round.
posted on November 6, 2000 08:20:16 AMDrTrooth: She made a threat? To whom?
raygomez: If one was in the middle of an illness, they wouldn't be engaging in any of the activities you queried about, nor would eBay accept any later proof that the seller made the buyers "whole." The scenario that fits is not completing a transaction.
That was not a threat and you know me better than that. There are some crazy people out there and they target vocal ones. I know. I have been targeted myself. I would not want you to go through what I went through. And you KNOW what I went through.
Just be careful. Never take your safety for granted.
I am not threatening you. I do not do that. But I am smart enough to recognize when people put themselves in danger, and I do not want that to happen to you. I happen to like you, Radh, though when you act like this it gets a bit difficult.
posted on November 6, 2000 08:48:57 AM
FWIW- I didn't take "iswore..'s" comment as a threat, either.
Re: the NARU in question- my understanding from postings elsewhere is this: Seller with a good feedback record became unable to complete a number of transactions due to serious illness, resulting in a number of negs for non-shipment and subsequent NARU by eBay. Seller claims to have subsequently contacted buyers and made good on the transactions. In the meantime, seller registered with a second eBay ID for posting purposes (but was non longer selling). Seller became involved in a board dispute with another individual, who launched a campaign to further discredit seller. This thread is likely part of that campaign. Second individual complained to eBay about the NARU seller's second ID, and that ID was NARU because it violated eBay's rule against re-registering while NARU.
posted on November 6, 2000 08:55:34 AM
No, I had no intentions of threatening Radh--or anyone else, for that matter. I thought Radh and I were friends. It is simply too easy to assume you are safe, sitting in your own living room posting to the Internet. That is not necessarily so, and I have some battle scars to prove it.
I believe the second id--the one last naru'd--was taken out long before the initial suspension.
I believe the user in question is in the processing of providing proof that any disputes were cleared up and taken care of.
I have seen this sort of thing happen to sellers who were struck with a sudden and devastating illness.
posted on November 6, 2000 09:17:41 AM
Glenda, thank you.
I still would like to see secretagentwomen come back and explain more about the agenda of this group.
I don't particulary believe the first post and poster, if true, don't think it is right to hold auctions for relatives on ebay, thats wrong.
But when this EDA is brought up, I went to the link, and tried to read the 'Mission Statement' but didn't quite get it. I didn't see anyones credentials in this area etc.
Sure I can see them reporting to Trust and Safety, there is nothing wrong with that, but when you get people in their own 'homemade', if you will groups, I believe the members may get a little overzealous in their crusade or whatever it is they are trying to do.
I believe the leader: secretagentwoman, said? not positive, that she had a lot of time online. I think some people have too much time to spend online, and maybe they think this is for the good of all. I don't.
posted on November 6, 2000 09:26:04 AMraygomez, do you really think eBay only suspends people for serious offenses? Have you ever heard of the "tuna caught in the net" in connection with the DNF Board? I firmly believe that a very vocal anti-eBay poster can be targeted for suspension by eBay as a slap on the wrist solution or can be turned in to Safe Harbor by an opposing group. No one can convince me otherwise!! Safe Harbor HAS been known to make "mistakes" and suspend the innocent on occasion along with the guilty and I don't like to presume another's guilt without all of the facts.
Larissa has mentioned that her secretagentwoman ID was suspended due to the suspension of her original seller ID. The reason for the original suspension has been posted on her board but is personal in nature and I'm not going to repeat it here. The secretagentwoman ID was NOT used for selling and she hasn't had any selling activity since the 1st ID's suspension. I don't know if this explanation is accurate and I have no way to determine if it's true but I believe it's possible that we have a case of someone being too vocal on one of eBay's public boards (the T&S Board) Somehow, I think you already know these answers.
Hello radh. I don't think Sandy was threatening you in any way but was WARNING you to be careful because it's very easy to become a target if you are in a position to be noticed - not by her but by other Bay users or entities.
BTW, I think eBay is running a business that strongly relies on trust to be successful and therefore, they should be pro-active in ensuring that trust. Instead of relying on the user base to police their site, they should be doing it themselves so the sellers don't have to keep spending yet more money on escrow insurance or verification programs. I'm personally tired of being put in the defensive position of needing these ridiculous assurances in order for the buyer to trade safely due to the fraudulent element on eBay. This is definitely a case of the few controlling the many since we're ALL considered to be crooks and in order to entice the buyer we ALL need to pay for these extra insurance measures.
Why shouldn't eBay take an active stance and try to permanently get rid of their dishonest user base so the rest of us can get on with our business?
posted on November 6, 2000 01:37:01 PM
Things were going well for the 'Detective Agency'. They had an article coming out on MSNBC and they were happily running along causing lots of folks to get NARU'd for various offenses, but mostly shilling.
Someone sent me an email about all of this and I went to take a look.
What I saw on the T&S board was a "Rah Rah Git 'em Git 'em" lynch mob mentality and nobody questioned it. Well, a few did. Radh and another poster on that board. Both were labeled as 'trolls' and 'shillers' and Radh was even called an 'Undercover Pinkliner' That one was just too funny, but it really did show a lot about their 'investigative' skills and their unwillingness to accept any degree of accountability.
So I posted a thread on the T&S called "Confused About 'Detective Agency'"
I was promptly attacked, labeled a troll, a criminal shiller, etc. etc.
I was personally attacked in that thread and several which followed, but I did not personally attack anyone, at any time.
Secret Agent Woman invited me on the board and sent the password. I was attacked on the board as well. I posted threads about it here and on other boards. I was given permission to share the password with anyone, and offered to do so in those threads.
And some, maybe all, of the findings were also reported to SafeHarbor (and then any answer was posted on the board so people talked about it some more). They're probably still doing the same thing, just not in public. Group dynamics at work.
That one was just too funny, but it really did show a lot about their 'investigative' skills and their unwillingness to accept any degree of accountability.