posted on November 7, 2000 04:07:38 PM new
George~
You missed my point, which was that the leader of this group (basestealer) shows little concern for proof of guilt, but is very interested in the pursuit of those deemed to be 'guilty'. That can include PowerSellers (PowerShillers) or those that disagree with him, or just about anyone he decides to try and bully. I saw the same signs from the posts of your friends, the 'Posse' at Yahoo!. It is a common theme with many of the 'netcop' groups I've seen.
What I hope to accomplish is to show ebaY that they should take a LONG look at any 'evidence' supplied by him or members of his group. Having someone playing 'netcop' from the back of a horse called 'Vendetta' is a dangerous thing to have running loose without any extra oversight. I hope that SafeHarbor is getting the message from seeing his behavior and that of those who work with him.
On a higher level, I want to see ebaY put more process in place to help prevent wrongful NARU's and at the same time, to help rid the site of fraud. Better training for SafeHarbor employees is a start, and the new pattern-matching software release coming early next year may help too. But the idea of a community review board is a really good one.
OAUA has been a successful advocate for members, but everyone else needs some type of help as well. The situation gets more out of control as the site grows.
It's not all about Basestealer, but exposing the actions of these folks will hopefully inspire users who are afraid to speak out directly to email ebaY and petition for some change.
People on the T&S board complain that SafeHarbor turns a blind eye to the evidence they present of wrongdoing. That's true. SafeHarbor doesn't exercise a great deal of care quite often, but that goes BOTH ways. They wrongfully NARU users and shut down their auctions too. I know. I've helped untangle that mess before on behalf of others. People whose auction businsses are significantly harmed by careless action. This is all about people's lives. Their incomes. Their ability to pay the rent or pay medical bills or keep their kid in a safe school. Careless action can have devastating consequences. A lack of adequate help getting reinstated makes it worse.
And it DOES affect ebaY's bottom line. They are losing users left and right. They add people in the front door, but they move out the back just as fast. That's what happens when someone is treated badly and unfairly. They leave, and don't come back. Some of these netcops are pulling the User Info of all Sellers and Bidders they investigate. How would you like to have someone pulling up your name and phone number who you don't know, and for no apparent reason? It scares people away. Good honest people. And the site metrics show it, too. Revenue per auction is going DOWN for ebaY and the sellthrough rate is going DOWN and that's because they are losing people and it's partially due to fraud, and partially due to being treated badly.
ebaY is a customer service business. They need to realize that and start acting accordingly.
I certainly agree with the concept that the sites themselves should be doing A LOT more to prevent and squelch fraud on their sites.
The problem is that it seems like a no-man's-land out there. No one seems to have any true recourse if they are mistreated or ripped off--by eBay or by a con artist.
I want to say that people are still coming to the EDA with questions. We are trying to answer them--as thoroughly and conscientiously--as possible. Often, I can see nothing wrong, and I say so. That is of utmost importance. I am not in favor of public lynchings, despite what some people think of me.
Oh yeah. Be very careful of any transactions involving credit cards and the former Soviet Union or Indonesia:
posted on November 7, 2000 06:19:53 PM new
Hello Shendra,
Your initial post mentioned that...
"Anyway, I noted that someone had pulled my contact information last week, and the requestor’s e-contact info was complete gibberish. I did not think much about it until I received the following e-mail late last week:"
I wonder if you have forwarded the contact info request email to eBay along with the purported EDA email with a request that eBay look into any connection between the two?
A contact info email would originate from eBay and they must surely know how to interpret what you think is gibberish.
posted on November 7, 2000 08:19:59 PM new
Well, Toy Ranch, we can agree on one thing...and that is that eBay (or Yahoo!) should take a "long look" at evidence that is supplied BY ANYONE before acting on it!
I also think a "Review Board" of some sort is a great idea, so users who feel they have been wronged by the system have some recourse and an avenue to make their case heard. That only seems fair to me.
Toy Ranch, you once again entered into a fray, without all the facts in hand, and started "reporting" back to all the boards. The reaction of some inside the EDA is predictable given those circumstances, and, yes, ARE similar to some of the reactions you received in the SZ when you failed to avail yourself of the facts before rushing to judgment.
Perhaps a modified approach might meet with less resistance next time?
Toy Ranch, I sincerely hope that you don't revel in the outcome here. Because I see it as a case where everyone has lost...you, me, basestealer...sellers...the entire on-line auction industry. At least in the short-run! Time will reveal what the long-term effects are! I only know that if I was a new eBayer and happened onto the T&S Board, during this encounter, there is no way I'd EVER bid on an on-line auction.
George
It's easy to "knock" a program....a lot harder to come up with a BETTER solution.
[ edited by gawooley on Nov 7, 2000 08:30 PM ]
posted on November 7, 2000 09:44:31 PM newThis thread is starting to remind me of that Nazi thread.
Which is exactly what the original poster had in mind.
Y'all ought to read alt.religion.scientology. You'll see this game played every day. If you don't like what your detractors might accomplish, you figure out a way to make your detractors look like a bad guys. You make things up.
posted on November 8, 2000 04:58:12 AM new
TO CLARIFY:
I DID NOT CREAT A NEW ID AFTER BEING NARUD FROM THE OTHER ONE. That is against eBay rules, and I know that.
secret*agent*woman is a posting id I have had FOR QUITE SOME TIME, and was not NARUd originally, but was later when it was reported by you-know-who. You can look it up on eBay, yourself, as to when the id was created.
I was ill, I have taken care of my customers, end of story. Good night.
posted on November 8, 2000 05:31:21 AM new
>George~
>You missed my point, which
TOYRANCH is right. And after reading all the posts where self-appointed netcops attempt to justify themselves, all I can say is, "Get a life." Jeez. What a pathetic bunch.
posted on November 8, 2000 05:32:29 AM new
Larissa would someone please send me a password to the detective site. I have emailed several times to no effect.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:03:34 AM newisworeitouldneverdothis
In a message on page 6 in this thread, you stated;
"Radh, seriously, be careful, okay? Sometimes outspoken people take it right in the teeth. Don't want that to happen to you, okay?
"Helen, you wanted to know what else was going on with the EDA. I am telling you. We are in charge of ALL those small packages. And we figure that if we win the Bakeoff, we can buy our own server and then NOBODY can tell us what to do. BWAHAHAHAHA!"
.....
Apparently, I misinterpreted your remark to Radh as a threat and
when I responded, I was almost kicked off Auction Watch. But even
after you have stated that you did not intend this as a threat,
Radh has coninued to make references To this threat to her teeth.
I am still trying to understand the significance of your remark to
me about Jimmy Hoffa body parts and the Bakeoff. This whole
situation seems to me like a lot of juvenile nonsense but maybe
if you are right, it may not be.
So will you please clarify the significance of you remarks to me?
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Nov 8, 2000 08:05 AM ]
[ edited by HJW on Nov 8, 2000 08:06 AM ]
posted on November 8, 2000 08:33:53 AM new
Dear Helen,
When I made the joke about the bakeoff and the body parts (in small packages) I was responding to your speculation, "It appears to me that there is something undercover going on here and I wonder if it's only about shilling on Ebay?"
No significance, actually. As to why Radh keeps making reference to the "threat" when I have explained myself (and it is not like she does not know me and has not known me for the past two and a half years), I dunno. Maybe that is just the way the wind is blowing.
Edited to say,
I certainly did not intend for that warning to be taken as a threat. I simply said it because I know how mean things can get when one is targeted. I do not want that to happen to her. Because the harassment can last for a long time, and the ill effects can too.
Edited again to say,
Helen, I am sorry my response seemed, well, half-a$$ed. I did not set out to get you in trouble.
[ edited by isworeiwouldneverdothis on Nov 8, 2000 08:44 AM ]
[ edited by isworeiwouldneverdothis on Nov 8, 2000 08:48 AM ]
posted on November 8, 2000 08:57:54 AM new
Thanks, isworeiwouldneverdothis, for your
answer...looks like Radh is getting a lot
of milage out of your advice!
My problem is that I don't know most of the
posters on auction watch and I have a tendency to take everything at face value.
posted on November 8, 2000 09:42:01 AM new
Remember last year we had a similar dispute about a doll sale & it involve shillin too. Anyone remember that..come on...that battle lasted 17 pages long & everyone from that family who shilled got banned from AW.
posted on November 8, 2000 09:51:21 AM new
I watched a program last night where a person in Canada was wrongly accused of robbery & rape. 9 different women picked him out of a police line up, & there was enough circumstantial evidence to make a solid case.
9 yrs later an investigator began taking a closer look at this case & decided some things didn't quite add up. After months of digging & DNA samples being tested, he proved that this person was innocent & that another convict who looked very similar, was the guilty party.
Personally, I'd rather see a hundred shillers walk free, than one innocent non shiller get a life sentence by eBay, due to some overzeleous net cops who, oops, made a mistake.
This month I've had some (0) feedback bidders bidding up some high $$$ items of mine. Some of them were just registered on the day they ran the bids up and had not bid on any other items on eBay. On a few others the (0) feedback bidders had been regstered on eBay for over a year, and were only bidding on this particular item of mine.
Oh, did I mention I'm a Power Seller. I can only imagine what some of these net cops would think had they stumbled across those auctions.
I'm all for education, but not vigilante groups who wander the halls at eBay playing FBI wannabes.
posted on November 8, 2000 09:55:09 AM new
After reading what Toyranch has to say, I find myself (very difficult) on the same page with Toy. You know I've never been a big supporter of the millionauction march or the OAUA but if OAUA or Toy has helped other sellers, I might show my support to OAUA.
Its amazing what people do on the internet. To some it has been their real lives & Number47, you are absolutely right. Most of these so called netcops are not even active participants in eBay & Yahoo. I checked their records & most have not been buying or selling but all feel that they need to form a group or click. Its the same gang mentality.
I see the same approach to the internet in Battlenet & chat rooms. Everyone needs to have a motif to spend hours on the internet & to kill time. Its too bad for those sellers who make a living selling on the internet (who knows what those sale mean to them in terms of living) & its a shame we can't do anything about it to help those who have been victimized by these sad individuals. How bitter can you get?.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:02:11 AM newPersonally, I'd rather see a hundred shillers walk free, than one innocent non shiller get a life sentence by eBay
eBay doesn't give life sentences. They don't put anyone in jail at all.
Imagine applying such a standard to raising kids, and you'll see what's wrong with the analogue.
I'm out of here. I was simply trying to understand the topic and
that includes the posters that are involved. It appears that my
posts are under special observation by the moderator and I believe
that I have been unfairly targeted by
moderator Pattaylor.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:17:20 AM new
sg52 .... Yes, so easy to say from someone who's never been down the path of NARU & perhaps doesn't depend on their monthly sales on eBay.
As Toy mentioned earlier, some of these targeted sellers depend on eBay to feed their families. I've worked damn hard to get where I am on eBay & certainly wouldn't want to have start over from square one because, oops, someone at SH made a mistake.
I was around last year when the SH Tuna fishing crew was tossing their nets and came very close to being caught up in their little board purging expedition. I know several sellers who were suspended with nothing more than "Board Violation" given as a reason.
eBay would not discuss the situation with them via email, nor would they give a reason as to their suspension. They were told to phone someone at SH & they would discuss the situation with them. Even after some of them were reinstated & apologized to,they were told they could not post on an eBay chat board.
Some of these people were simply innocent bystanders that were taken down in the crossfire.
They were also people who depended on their monthly sales. Think the fine folks at SH gave a sheet? Not hardly.
I have pretty much zero faith in SH, and less than zero in the net cop wannabes.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:36:28 AM new
I do not have the time, nor the inclination to read this entire thread... , so excuse me if this was already mentioned...
I would like to make a comment about something I found odd, on the Ebay Detective Agency EZ Board:
I am quite suprised that the PASSWORD WAS CHANGED, and even more surprised to see that one has to surrender onE's Ebay ID in order to be Emailed the new password...Whatsupwitdat?
********************
Shosh
posted on November 8, 2000 12:03:32 PM new
RE: EDA and passwords/verification.
The membership has asked only eBay members be allowed in the private areas. We only verify you are indeed a member. That's all. No giving out of the information, either. It is confidential.
Password? Well, actually we have dumped the password in favor of adding members to our "allowed" list so only members can lurk, too. This is because a poster also to this thread has asked people to copy our threads and dig up dirt on it's members.
You must understand, we are under a full scale attack. I will be happy to email the proof to anyone who asks. This is no joke.
As for my NARU, it is being handled by eBay at this moment. They are fully understanding, and I will be re-instated. Just takes time to assemble everything. Being sick is not a crime, not by a long stretch of the imagination.
Larissa [email protected] Detective Agency
posted on November 8, 2000 12:45:00 PM newRay, thanks for your reply. As far as I am concerned, if I have to hand over my private info just so that I can post on a board, it ain't worth it...
not whom you think I am...not even whom I think I am...
posted on November 8, 2000 12:57:42 PM new
SHEEZZ...Dick Tracey, Agent 007, Dudley Doright, Snidely Whiplash and the Perils of Pauline all rolled into one outlandish story.
When is the movie coming out? Should be a blockbuster!
[ edited by amy on Nov 8, 2000 12:59 PM ]
This topic is 9 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new7new8new9new
, so excuse me if this was already mentioned...
