fenix03
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posted on January 7, 2006 08:22:39 AM new
Let me ammend that Linda - there may be unions for drywallers, roofers and the the lot. I should not say that there are not. What I am saying is that union workers are not used in residential construction.
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
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hillbillymo
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posted on January 7, 2006 08:31:38 AM new
There are still areas that have union tradesmen working in residential construction.
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Linda_K
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posted on January 7, 2006 08:44:51 AM new
Of COURSE there are, hillbillymo. She just doesn't want to recognize she is WRONG about this.
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fenix03
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posted on January 7, 2006 10:58:31 AM new
OK Linda - prove it. Show me what US builders are using union labor in reidential building. All you have done is aid that there are, you have offered no evidence, cited no builder that does, etc. You are the one that keeps inisting on it. I've given you examples of a couple of the most prolific builders in the US that don't. What have you got?
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
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hillbillymo
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posted on January 7, 2006 11:45:42 AM new
PDF] Chapter 3: Labor
labor. Union officials claim in interviews that unions have a larger share of
the residential. construction industry in New York than in any other city. ...
http://www.law.nyu.edu / realestatecenter / CREUP_Papers / cost_study_2005 / chapter03.pdf - similar pages - add to favorites
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Helenjw
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posted on January 7, 2006 12:18:49 PM new
Hillbillymo, your link doesn't work (there may be unneeded spaces) but I was able to find the site with the following link.
http://www.law.nyu.edu/realestatecenter/CREUP_Papers/cost_study_2005/chapter03.pdf
Excerpt...
It is likewise difficult to determine the proportion of housing construction that is performed
by union labor in New York City, but developers and unions agree that this percentage has
recently decreased.29 There is a higher incidence of unionization for luxury developments,
large developments, and construction in Manhattan, in part because unions are likely to
target such high visibility sites and picket if these sites are built with non-union labor.
Affordable housing city-wide and market rate housing in the outer boroughs are less likely to
be built with union labor; developers report that the rents and sales prices of such
developments are simply unable to support the higher development costs arising from union
labor.
Union officials claim in interviews that unions have a larger share of the residential construction industry in New York than in any other city. They estimate that unions have 50
to 60 percent market share, down from 80 to 85 percent as recently as ten years ago. Union
officials attribute this decline to a recent influx of foreign investment, which is less inclined
to use union labor. Others point to a new wave of non-union contractors who gained
experience during the recent housing boom and are now competing for work with unionized
firms. Certain trades – particularly those associated with high-rise construction – appear to
remain predominantly unionized, and developers remark in interviews that union labor tends
to be superior to non-union labor in the mechanical and electrical trades. But non-union
firms have recently made inroads in trades such as carpentry/sheetrock and some developers
feel that such firms compete with their union counterparts on quality.
Developers generally agree in interviews that union labor is of higher quality than non-union
labor. Unions contend that higher quality translates into lower housing maintenance costs
over time.30 Developers also report that unionized subcontractors generally perform with
fewer delays, in part because they tend to be better capitalized and are therefore less sensitive
to funding delays. Union contractors also appear to have better safety records than nonunion
contractors.31 Union officials additionally claim that unionization benefits the public
coffers because unionized workers have medical benefits and therefore make fewer demands
on the public health system.
These benefits come at a cost. Developers estimate that union projects cost ten to 25
percent more than non-union projects. These higher costs are a function of wages, fringe
benefits, work rules and coordination among various trades. The work rules and
coordination are discussed in more detail below.
Union wages are higher than non-union wages in all industries, but more so in construction.
In 2003, union wages exceeded non-union wages by 52 percent in the construction industry,
in contrast to 21 percent across all industries.32
[ edited by Helenjw on Jan 7, 2006 12:35 PM ]
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hillbillymo
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posted on January 7, 2006 12:33:10 PM new
Thanks Helen!
I copied it directly from a search results on google.
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Helenjw
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posted on January 7, 2006 12:37:16 PM new
Thank you, Hillbillymo! It's a very interesting article.
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Linda_K
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posted on January 7, 2006 01:33:22 PM new
Yes, there are fenix.
And anyone can find them by doing a google search.
I'm sure you have the ability to do it yourself since YOU are the one denying they exist...not I. I KNOW they exist. 
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fenix03
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posted on January 7, 2006 03:01:49 PM new
Linda- you brought them up out of nowhere and since it is rather difficult to prove non usage - I leave it to you to prove uage of union labor in residential building (as in single family dwellings - not NYC Condo com plexes which are the same as commercial construction).
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
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Linda_K
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posted on January 7, 2006 03:36:01 PM new
LOL fenix....sure just like you didn't bring up welfare mom's either. Nope....you brought up cheap labor...rather than...
do a google search....try under AFL-CIO...you'll find some there. But I don't have to prove what I KNOW exist fenix. It's you that believes diffently....you're problem...not mine.
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fenix03
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posted on January 7, 2006 03:49:40 PM new
Linda - I did not bring up unions in construction and you know it. You brought up the unions when you mistakenly said that I support them.
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Jan 7, 2006 03:50 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on January 7, 2006 04:24:41 PM new
fenix - I brought up AGENTS AT THE BORDER BEING SHOT AT....you derailed this whole thread with talk of everything else. I was just conversing with you.
IF you need info. you should be adult enough to learn it yourself. Don't ask me to do all the footwork you don't want to do.
There are home builders who ONLY hire UNION tradespeople. I KNOW that...I don't have to prove it to anyone, including you.
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fenix03
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posted on January 7, 2006 05:07:17 PM new
Since you seen to be incapable of naming even a single builder and are working so hard to deflect the conversation away fron it I can only assume it is because you are unable to support your claim. So be it.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
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Linda_K
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posted on January 7, 2006 07:31:45 PM new
well....like most things you liberals here ASSUME....you'd be so wrong fenix.
You're being so childish....it's not like you. But lately, I don't know...you've gotten this way with a few of us now. tsk tsk tsk
I would NEVER assume you couldn't type in 'unionized home builders' in a google search either....but you don't seen to be able to do that either.
no more from me. You'll either learn for yourself...or you won't. I know there are.
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