posted on September 5, 2000 12:51:31 AM
Correction on the origins and real meaning of "Cracker" as a label, for those who'd embarrass themselves and offend others:
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Grady McWhiney, in "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South," (The University of Alabama Press, 1988) makes a distinction concerning the term CRACKER and tries to reclaim the term that is now used as a slur. He says that "cracker," in Scotch-Irish dialect meant "a person who talked boastingly." Later the term Crackers came to mean a Scotch-Irishmen, a particular group of people. McWhiney says Cracker eventually became a disparaging term and Crackers were equated with "poor whites."
He quotes historian Lewis C. Gray, in "History of Agriculture in the Southern United States to 1860," as associating the term Cracker with other slurs: "The
distinctive characteristics of poor whites were recognized in the various special appellations by which they were contemptuously known in different parts of the South, such as, 'piney-woods people,' 'dirt-eaters,' 'clay-eaters,' 'tallow-faced gentry,' 'sand-hillers,' and 'crackers.'"
McWhiney asserts that Crackers are a distinctive ethnic group - the Scotch-Irish - and is appalled that, "…in a nation in which slurs based upon race, ethnicity, or religion have become strictly taboo, it is still acceptable to lampoon Crackers as a group…
Source: http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/bulletin_board/5/messages/744.html
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Polly want a derogatory term for a Melanin-Challenged Euro-American?
Dear Word Detective: Can you tell me the origin of the word "cracker"? Someone told me that it dated back to the slave days, when slave owners were called "crackers" because they cracked a whip on slaves. Is this true? -- Cygerr, via the internet.
Probably not, although that is one oft-heard theory among many. But before we proceed any further, we'd better back up a bit and explain (especially for our overseas readers) that "cracker" is a derogatory slang term usually used to mean a poor white person resident in the Southern U.S., especially in the state of Georgia, which is sometimes referred to as "the Cracker State." More than simply a regional slur, "cracker" carries the implication that the person is a racist, and is sometimes applied to any white person perceived as harboring racist sentiments, regardless of class or geographic particulars.
There are theories tracing "cracker" to the crack of a slavemaster's whip, or to "corncracker" (slang for country folk, who presumably ate a lot of corn). But the actual source is almost certainly the much older slang sense of "to crack" meaning "to boast or brag," first seen around 1460, and its derivative "cracker," meaning "braggart," which appeared around 1509. The earliest use of "cracker" used in the "poor white" sense discovered so far bears out the connection. In a letter written to the Earl of Dartmouth in 1766, an observer named Gavin Cochrane, referring to bands of outlaws operating at that time in the Southern U.S., noted: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."
Evidently these outlaws were so successful that their exploits, along with their bragging habits, became legendary throughout the eastern United States. By the early 19th century, "cracker" had become a term applied to poor Southern whites in general.
posted on September 5, 2000 01:35:48 AM
I have never heard it. (Redneck would be the common term for that here.)
When I went to the health department once about 10 years ago they did ask me if I ate dirt (it was on the official form along with clothing starch, REALLY). I had never heard of that either. I was told it was a cultural thing common with pregnant women who require certian minerals not present in their diet. (Like a vitamin substitute?)
You mentioned whips. (No puns on this one please.) The Parchman Prision whip was named "Black Annie" and ceased to be used in the mid 1970's on prisoners working in the fields. Sad trivia.
T
posted on September 5, 2000 04:04:10 AM
bitsandbobs made this comment 2 days ago.
posted on September 2, 2000 06:16:22 AM
"Costa lota moola to packa de parcel.
Costa lota more moola ifa granpa do da work?
Happy Fishing!! "
on thread titled 'Shipping $10 Charge- Rip - Off Deceitful'
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=248362&id=248362
bitsandbobs-
Do You Hvae a fascination with "pedigree"?
Are You Of Clean Descent Living Christian White Stock?
Are You A White supremacist?
Without Prejudice, Not Costa on eBay
[ edited by Costa on Sep 5, 2000 04:20 AM ]
posted on September 5, 2000 06:25:43 AM
Hi Costa,
Glad I looked in before turning in for the night.
I don't care one iota what colour, race or creed a person is. Cut a human being and we all bleed the same colour blood.
It's the character of a person that's important, nothing else.
Sometimes ones attempt at humour may be misunderstood by another. So be it. I bear you no malice. I likewise lose no sleep over it. I could see a humourus side to your post.
posted on September 5, 2000 07:36:50 AM
Character may be "important" to you, bitsandbobs, but the focus of this thread is ethnic origins, plain and simple. "Character" has nothing to do with the topic, it's bloodlines.
You may never have stopped to think about what people who are adopted experience when they see things like "Where did you or your family originate from...?" and the ensuing discussion of being one-quarter this and one-eighth that. Unless you're adopted, or are close to an adoptee, you may never have realized how exclusionary it is. Some adoptees don't feel this way, but others do. Of course, most of the people who are confident of their antecedents are unaware of events in their family history that would lay waste to their assumptions, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
posted on September 5, 2000 08:49:50 AM
pareau-thats ridiculus. This whole country (and others) have become entirely too Politically Correct.
I know 2 people, who are close friends, who are adopted, and are not at all offended if the talk is of 'where your ansecestors came from', I even asked one of them, she laughed, no she wasn't.
If we have to become so rigid and PC there would be nothing at all to talk about. Think about it.
posted on September 5, 2000 08:54:59 AMjt when my daughter was very little, about 1 or 1 1/2 years old, she was eating dirt. Took her to the dr, (and this was in Southern Oklahoma) the dr said she was lacking in a certain vitamin, I cannot remember what, but they gave it to her in a pharmacutical form.
posted on September 5, 2000 09:30:42 AM
Shelly, what's ridiculous to you isn't riduculous to other people. It DOES bother some adoptees and their families, and trying to dismiss it with the PC label doesn't make the issue go away. Discussions like this deal with issues of race and ethnicity and are by their nature tricky; I am for more discussion, not less, and think the "rigidity" comes in not accepting that there can be a number of ways to view an issue. I'm not for suppression of conversation, but rather am against constriction of thought. Hope that's clear.
posted on September 5, 2000 10:11:13 AM
There is nothing "tricky" about discussing where our families originated. Nor is it an "issue", IMO. They are merely facts. I have spoken out about the pernicious grasp the cult of PC has on this country, and here is a prime example. We shouldn't discuss our roots since some people might be unhappy about it because they don't know theirs? Please.
BTW, my roots are English with a bit of Dutch thrown in. My last name is a "place name"--there used to be a village called Umpleby in the county of York in England, long ago. (Perhaps I should be traumitized because it no longer exists, and avoid all mention of it?). According to family lore, all Umplebys in the US are descended from 4 brothers who came here in the 19th C. Interesting note: in a college geology course, I discovered an "Umpleby Pass" on a map of the Sierras we were studying. Always wondered about the story behind *that*
posted on September 5, 2000 10:37:27 AM
pareau-yeah clear as mud. Now, with all this PC bs going on, been going on, what IS fit conversation.... seems someone is going to find something in ANYTHING.
posted on September 5, 2000 11:14:20 AM
Well, if both bunnicula and Shelly are taking what I'm saying this way, I know I'm not being clear.
Put aside the label of "PC," which was applied in a reactionary fashion to Costa's criticism of the possible intent of the thread's originator. The whole matter of discussing "roots" and "origins" in countries whose inhabitants are largely the descendants of the displaced, misplaced, unwanted, malcontented, restless, etc., can bring up lots of issues, and it does. Those are interesting issues, all of them; race, ethnicity, group and individual identity, affiliation and rejection thereof, assimilation, cultural assumptions, and more. Pretending they're NOT issues doesn't alter what they mean to us, and doesn't--and shouldn't--alter their importance.
I wonder about the very question of "roots" and "origins." Why ask at all? Why is there a need, or desire, to know? Do the answers make us think we "know" individuals any better? Do we feel differently about others based on these "facts"? Why? If we feel a sense of kinship with someone because they say their ancestors were from the same part of the world as ours, can we rule out having a sense of antipathy toward people who come from areas with longstanding conflicts?
Those are just a few questions that the topic raises in my mind, and I think that discussing race and identity issues has a great deal of value. Maybe I'm after a more thoughtful conversation here, instead of a nonreflective roundup of factoids. Either way, though, I'm not about NOT talking, just about being aware of what's being discussed. There's no PC "cult," and when enhanced consciousness starts being seen as "pernicious," it's time to reevaluate viewpoints. IMO.
posted on September 5, 2000 11:25:38 AM
Being PC and addressing the post, not the poster.
Yanno Posts,
At first I thought you were written as sarcasm or satire, but the more you expound on this thread the more I come to the conclusion that you have had a postpersonality transplant.
Lets's see, well, no more talk about children, pets, hobbies, trips,etc, those of us who don't have any or can't afford them may be bothered by any discussion about them. No more gifs please, it bothers me personally, because I'm incapable of reproducing them myself and it makes me feel soooo inadequate. And, of course ,since you are so concerned about the feelings of others,post, please, no more words of more than 2 syllables or that aren't defined in a 3rd grade reader, it might bother those of us who didn't have the opportunity or skill to achieve the highest levels of education.... And so on, and so forth.
posted on September 5, 2000 11:26:33 AMI wonder about the very question of "roots" and "origins." Why ask at all? Why is there a need, or desire, to know? Do the answers make us think we "know" individuals any better? Do we feel differently about others based on these "facts"? Why?
Parny ( ), why don't you ask "why" anytime someone starts a thread asking people to reveal an opinion or a thought -- "why are you asking?"
Well, why not?
It's a point of conversation. I doubt anyone here "needs" to know what my roots are or your roots are. It's just interesting for some people. As many have pointed out, Americans have more diverse roots than any other people populating any other countries. In all likelihood we all share this common thread; a strong branch in our family tree came to this country at some point in time to make a better life for themselves and their family. I'm proud of my ancestry and I find it interesting. I hope everyone else is proud of theirs and also finds theirs interesting.
Why is this controversial?
James.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Sep 5, 2000 11:44 AM ]
posted on September 5, 2000 11:50:37 AM
Geneology and heritage festivals are big business because they interest people. Just ask anyone in the book business or the tourism industry industry. Pick up a magazine and look at the models. I love to study cultural backgrounds of all kinds. Without them the world is all grey and I don't care for grey. It's dull.
Culturophobe in the crowd?
I am getting a new magazine dedicated to fashion and beauty and cultural diversity. I forget the name because it is brand new but next issue I will try to remember to post the link to it. It has some slightly risque fashion photos but they are highly artistic and not in poor taste at all.
T
posted on September 5, 2000 11:53:00 AM
Well, Shelly, I find the "why" more interesting than the original question. When I asked "Why this question," I meant it openly. What's the reason for wanting the information? What do the answers MATTER to the asker, to all of us? If there's any significance, any importance, to where one of our ancestors lived, what is it and why is it? The questions don't seem to interest you, but they interest me. I'm not suggesting for a second a nonresponse to the initial question, just asking others. Why is that a problem for some of you?
I'm for asking MORE questions, not less. You all still don't seem to get it.
Parenthetically, it's funny how diverse the world is, and how little real diversity is showing up in the ancestries people are reporting. Chiefly Northern European, with some Native American for good measure. Now, what does THAT mean?
- Pareau
posted on September 5, 2000 11:56:46 AM
"Why? If we feel a sense of kinship with someone because they say their ancestors were from the same part of the world as ours, can we rule out having a sense of antipathy toward people who come from areas with longstanding conflicts? "
since I was writing my post while this one was being written, I missed the possible alternative purpose of the post, Pareau. But I still don't get the connection..........Long time ago I used to understand and see your point, lately I don't.
Since the above quote uses my words,'ll take the liberty of responding to it. I make no apologies for my interest in my families history. Because of the past attitude towards Native Americans, my grandparent's generation denied and erased part of their own history; even though it was there for all to see in physical appearance. So our generation knows very little about our own roots and use every clue we can stumble on to help solve our own questions. And Southerners, at least the ones I know, do have this sense of a "kinship", for lack of a better word, with others from the same geographical region, especially when you are away from that area you call home. When you find closer geographical and nationality or ethnical ties than you expect , that sense is enhanced. To attempt to relate such simple feeling to antipathy towards others is so far beyond my process of logical thinking I, at least in my mind, question the purpose.
cariad
posted on September 5, 2000 12:05:08 PM
Cariad, you're overpersonalizing your reading re "kinship." I am using it in the broadest possible sense. Again, look at what I said:
If we feel a sense of kinship with someone because they say their ancestors were from the same part of the world as ours, can we rule out having a sense of antipathy toward people who come from areas with longstanding conflicts?
I was actually thinking about Ireland and the Middle East when I wrote that. And I do believe that bias cuts two ways. I can also understand wanting to defend against recognizing that, but it's true.
posted on September 5, 2000 01:54:00 PM
I care not who came from what or is or is not what. However, can we not just have conversation in the name of pleasure and find enjoyment in the individuality of each person's background and personal story? It would be lovely if we had a more diverse group here. Right now my daughter and I are studying Japan and I would like to talk more about that culture.We will be doing China and India soon...not to many with those backgrounds here it seems...so the English or the French or whatever will have to do.
Last year, we were studying Native Americans, or Indians as I like to call them, I went to "Racial Relations Chat" at Yahoo and found it to be a MOST unfriendly place. As soon as I stated that I was "white" I was put on ignore by a Native American woman that I was trying to speak with and was mocked by the African Americans as the "stupidist and most mindless of all human beings, the White American female". It seemed that SOME Native Americans and SOME Blacks use it as a metting room to bash white women. I was quite let down with my experience there. I haven't been back.
So...why can't we work with what we have here and try to enjoy and appreciate eachother for what we individually are? If you do not LIKE to talk about your own heritage and are not interested in that of others, you can always find a more enjoyable thread on a subject that you prefer, huh?
posted on September 5, 2000 01:57:09 PM
"Romanian Gypsy"
Now that sounds intresting.
I saw a movie once, some artsy film series at the theater, about some Irish Gypsy Kids and a white horse. I can't remember the name. Ring a bell with anyone?
T
posted on September 5, 2000 02:14:09 PM
My parents told me my biological mother was Irish, German, and Bohemian. I guess Bohemian would translate to Czech these days, though Bohemian sounds sooooo much more glamorous.
posted on September 5, 2000 02:16:47 PM
jt I almost thought I knew the movie your talking about, it wasn't about a blind girl that did horse diving was it, in the 40's or something?
pareau-interesting, curious, whatever, thats all it is. I am not my father, I am not my grandfather, I am me. But it is interesting to know where they did come from and what they did, thats all.
jt -and that really is a shame that those people did that in that chat you talked about, why would they? I've heard this kind of thing before, I don't know the answer.
My daughters are part Cherokee, their father is, I cannot teach them much about that part, they know it, but don't seem to interested for whatever reason they have, they are adults now, so dunno.
posted on September 5, 2000 02:23:37 PM
Hi Shelly -- I thought of you when I was at the 24-hour post office at the airport the other day. I'm still grateful that you posted about it here. In this case it enabled me to mail a birthday present for my mother-in-law on Saturday that I'm really hoping will get there tomorrow!
posted on September 5, 2000 02:28:59 PM
My mother's father came from Finland and her mother's parents from Germany. My father's side of the family is all from Ireland as far as I know - probably emigrated about the time Swift(?) suggested that the Irish eat their children to avoid starvation.
Being a fellow NT (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator), I can empathize with pareau. "Why" is our raison d'etre. Also, to be honest,questions of origin often get my dander up. As a New Yorker who grew up in the South in the 50s and 60s, I know what it's like to derisively be called a "Yankee". And as a person with an Irish surname, I've listened to enough slurs about the Irish from my in-laws with their English background. These issues exist. I don't think pareau is telling anyone to discuss this issue less, but perhaps to expand on it in other ways.
Terri, perhaps what you experienced in that chat room is an example of how some people react to knowing one's race or ethnicity. Those types of reactions are why the question of where we are from is not always so benign - no offense to bitsandbobs who was probably just making a friendly inquiry.
ed.for spelling
[ edited by SAABsister on Sep 5, 2000 07:27 PM ]
