posted on November 21, 2000 02:28:07 AM
I have been dealing with alot of deadbeats on ebay lately. To save myself time and headaches I list in all of my auctions "14 days to pay from auction end". I send out NPBA to all buyers who have not made payment within the first week (as ebay makes you wait 7 days from auction end to file NPBA). So as most sellers know you have to wait an additional 10 days after NPBA to file a FVF (that is a total of 17 days from auction end). My method allows me to receive FVF 3 days after the final due date of payment (allowing for payment made on 14th day to be postmarked by the 14th day) this allows a full 14 days (I do not leave negs on the 14th day as that would be unreasonable).
Just recently for the first time since I started this method (about 5 months now) a buyer emailed me and was very upset about receiving a Non Paying Bidder Alert.
She wrote "Before you send the big guys maybe you could have emailed me directly!!!Your proganda says I have 14 days for you to receive payment. Has that changed?? I too can leave negative feedback!!! "
And guess what this user did today, you guessed it ! She left me a negative feedback which stated "Item arrived broken". I specifically state in my notification emails and my auctions that I am not responsible for any damaged items if they are not insured. I offer all of my buyers the option to get insurance on their items and this user did not pay for insurance.
How would you suggest dealing with this ? Does anyone here know of a way I can get ebay to remove this feedback ? Is their any rule this user broke, and can I use the email she sent me as proof of what her real reason for leaving me a neg was ?
posted on November 21, 2000 02:39:59 AM
Why do you allow insurance to be optional on breakables?
Just setting yourself up for problems.
If they are too cheap to cover insurance don't sell to them.
Build it into the price if you don't want to argue about it.
posted on November 21, 2000 02:44:14 AM
Two thoughts. One, I don't think Ebay removes negative feedback, but if you added a comment of your own in moderate language saying that buyer didn't take out insurance, I think most people would not be worried about the negative. OTOH, if you flame her, it might look bad on you.
Second, I often have customers who blow off responding to my email. The check IS in the mail, but I have no way of knowing that for several days after auction close. So I send an email reminder before filing the NPBA. It's a pain to keep track of all that, and in some cases I end up with a deadbeat anyway. But it does resolve some problems fairly quickly [of the "oh no, the envelope is still in my car!" variety]
posted on November 21, 2000 02:45:09 AM
That is exactly what I do on glass items. This was not a glass item, and frankly, I do not believe the item even broke. I have sold on ebay for around a year now and I package my items perfectly. I have about 2-3 items break due to USPS, but they were all glass and all insured. This user bought a wooden ashtray which was very thick.
posted on November 21, 2000 03:19:51 AM
I'm not sure I understand your terms of service. In your auctions, you say that high bidders have 14 days from end of auction in which you must receive payment.
However, you say that if you do not receive payment within one week (7 days) you then file a Non-paying Bidder Alert. Seems to me that you're deceiving your customers, you aren't really giving them fourteen days to pay, your policy is that you must receive the payment within 7 days or you will file a non-paying bidder alert.
This is a fact that should definitely be disclosed in your auctions, people who are told the payment must be received in 14 days, not 7, actually believe they have 14 days to get payment to you, and don't deserve to have NPBA filed on them just so that you can get a much faster turnaround on your final value fees.
I'm surprised that you haven't gotten more negatives for filing NPBA alerts within seven days when your customers had no idea this would happen. Perhaps a lot of them just decided not to pay you after you filed those NPBA - whereas if you had actually waited the fourteen days, the customer might not have been a deadbeat.
posted on November 21, 2000 03:53:55 AM
Your TOS is confusing to me. If I am going to be out of town when an auction ends, I email the seller and explain it to them. " I would like to bid on your auction but I won't be able to contact you until 5 days after the auction ends. Here is my zip code if you need it to figure shipping. If this is agreeable to you, just send me the address and final cost if I win, and I will send payment as soon as I return." If I read your TOS I would think I had 14 days and not worry about contacting you since it would seem I had plenty of time. I would be steamed if I got a NPBA in less than 14 days.
posted on November 21, 2000 05:37:46 AM
Yep - 14 days = 14 days. If you arrange to meet somebody for dinner, and ten minutes before the appointed time they don't show up, do you start calling their house trying to find out where the heck they are?
I do honestly understand your position, but I think you handled it badly. If you need to get payment within 14 days, I'd set a 10 day time limit and THEN NPB 'em on, say day 11 or 12 or thereabouts. Personally, I'd email 'em first. I just NPB'd (without emailing first) a couple people way back when, and duh, the check came the same day I NPB'd, which made me feel kind of overbearing in hindsight.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:04:17 AM
I agree with Jada.
I ran into a similar situation from a seller with the same type TOS and same method of filing NPB notices and the 7th day was the 3rd day of a Holiday weekend with no mail delivery. (!!) So really I had been given 5 days to pay before the NPB was issued on me, not 14 days or 10 days (can't remember which one the seller had in his TOS). And this was from one end of the country to the other, mail often doesn't make it from my town to the other end of the country in 5 days for first class mail. The seller had my address and knew it might not get there in 5 days. And my check was already in the mail. I was very angry and let the seller know I would never buy from them again. Not even an answer via email from them but they did give me a glowing positive when my payment arrived, as I knew it would.
BTW I never bid in the first place on auctions that ask for payment within 7 days or less, because I can't guarantee the mail delivery from my town in 7 days or less, unless I pay for priority mail and the item cost in this case did not justify paying for both a money order (which the seller required in his TOS) plus priority mail too! These items go for $5 to $10 range on Ebay. If I had known his real methods and when the NPB would be filed I wouldn't have bothered to bid on his auctions.
they lost a potentially good repeat customer that way, I collect what they sell and I am only too happy to give other people my business. What they sell is not that unique that they're the only people on Ebay selling that kind of thing.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:28:41 AM
No sympathy here. If I were a buyer on one of your auctions, I'd be made as @#$@. I sure as heck wouldn't bid on your auctions again.
Hope that rapid refund of your FVFs is worth all the customers who most likely won't bid on your auctions again.
posted on November 21, 2000 07:32:01 AM
"To save myself time and headaches I list in all of my auctions "14 days to pay from auction end". I send out NPBA to all buyers who have not made payment within the first week (as ebay makes you wait 7 days from auction end to file NPBA)."
To be truthful, your auctions should be saying "I will file a NPB notice if the payment is not here in SEVEN DAYS, and will file for FVF return and leave a blot on your eBay record on the 17th day after the auction is ended." And with terms like that, who would bid?
I'd be royally pissed off if I mailed a check a few days after the auction end,. figuring it had 10+ days to get there, only to get a NPB warning from eBay because the check missed your UNMENTIONED DEADLINE OF SEVEN DAYS. You would get a negative for having secret TOS terms and a bad disposition and it would be a real sizzler.
posted on November 21, 2000 08:00:07 AM
I too would be mad if I received the NPB notice before 14 days were up. In fact, I would probably gripe(to put it mildly) to eBay and ask for an explanation of their action - your terms said 14 days and those 14 days hadn't passed.Why was I receiving an NPB?
I file NPBs, FVFs, and post negatives but never before the time stated in my auction has passed (plus an extra couple days to allow for slow mail). I always pay within 1 day of an auction's end or my receipt of the seller's EOA. To get an NPB would tick me off and I'd probably leave a negative(particularly if the item was broken) or strongly worded neutral stating the facts.
posted on November 21, 2000 08:16:06 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I have had negatives posted against me for simply filing a NPB and FVF. HOWEVER... I did not file for those until the time was up that was stated in my TOS. I state payment is required within 10 business days. I would be out of my mind to request a NPB on the 7th day. I, too, understand why your customer is upset. You can't say you will give them 14 days to pay and then report them as being a "non paying bidder" after only 7 days.
When you file for the NPBA after the allowed time stated in your TOS, if your customer has not paid you, then you are no longer obligated to sell to them. You still may have to wait the extra 10 days - but you can certainly relist the item or sell to the 2nd highest bidder as soon as you file for the NPBA.
I would definitely re-think your wording in your TOS or just change how & when you file for NPBA. I, too would be very upset (to say the least) if I received a NPBA on the 7th day when I had 7 more days to pay according to your terms.
posted on November 21, 2000 10:06:50 AM
cix,
To send a NPBA after only seven days when your TOS states 14 days makes no sense. It also seems really rude. If you want payment in seven days, you should state this is you TOS. The NPBA will most likely be construed in an offensive manner and make your customers feel that you are treating them like "deadbeats," when they have followed your TOS to the letter. I, for one, would be plenty #&*($# and would never want to do business with you again. I would probably leave a neg also, saying that you didn't follow your own TOS. Just my opinion....
posted on November 21, 2000 01:19:19 PM
You can always pay $15 for a SquareTrade.com mediation with buyer to have negative feedback removed. I don't like the fee, but it helps facilitate a clean record.
posted on November 21, 2000 01:38:46 PM
TOS need to be re-written...They are confusing...Most bidders do not care about E-bay's terms on FVF credit....All they see is that 14 day margin...and rightly so. JMHO
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 21, 2000 02:15:19 PMI specifically state in my notification emails and my auctions that I am not responsible for any damaged items if they are not insured.
I state specifically on my check that I am not responsible for my power bill if the power was interrupted at any time during the previous year.
The power company just ignores me.
When the power was interrupted, I decided to pay anyway, because I thought they'd just cut me off if I followed through on my threat.
Point: one cannot dump undesired responsibility via such statements.
posted on November 21, 2000 02:24:35 PM
As a buyer, I would be totally frosted if I received a NPB alert notice only 7 days after an auction closed, especially if the sellers terms said "Payment must be received in 14 days". Say what you mean, and mean what you say. You are breaking your own terms by doing that, to say nothing of the fact that in some cases, 7 days is barely enough time to get a payment to someone. With weekends, holidays, and mail delays, that can really be pushing it.
I generally state "business days" in any time limits, and even then I don't use a limit in my terms, but only mention a time limit if I have to remind someone. Most of my payments arrive in the 6-10 day window without threats.
posted on November 21, 2000 02:44:41 PM
I see many TOS demanding that funds be received within XXX amount of days. Yes, that can be unrealistic. Personally, I suggest that funds be mailed within XXX amount of days after closing of auction...and hopefully, post will arrive not more than a week after that; and it always does.
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 21, 2000 02:48:27 PM
My auctions state payment is required within 10 days after auction ends. On the 11th day I file NPB alert. BUT - I still give them 10 more days to make good on it. By the 20th day if I haven't received payment I file FVF and leave them a NEG for non-payment. Works very well for me.
posted on November 21, 2000 08:47:26 PM
Neg them back.
Your TOS (no matter how unusual) are clearly stated in your auction description. If the bidder thinks they are too strict or chooses not to abide by them for any reason, they shouldn't bid on the item. Bidding on the item with clearly stated TOS (no matter what they are) constitutes acceptance of those terms. Failing to abide by those terms, agreed to by placing a valid bid,is a breach of TOS and subject to a NEG and ebay complaint.
From a buyer's standpoint, like it or not, the seller dictates the terms of sale. If you don't like it or won't abide by it, either don't bid or suffer the consequenses.
The buyer did nothing wrong here. The seller stated in their TOS "Payment must be received within 14 days". On the 7th day the SELLER filed for a NPB alert! She went against her own TOS!
How is that the buyer's fault? The buyer still had 7 days left to pay!
posted on November 21, 2000 09:11:10 PM
I usually wait 14 days before filing NPB, but tonight I sent out 6 reminder emails.
I am going to give the bidders until Monday evening to respond due to the holiday, but after that I file NPB. I also plan to give negative feedback to anyone who does not pay after receiving NPB.
posted on November 22, 2000 03:20:20 AM
WELL I SEE NOW THAT EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EYEGUN) IS FLAT OUT AS IGNORANT AS MY BUYER, OR MORE SO !!!
You people need to read the ebay user agreement which addresses this issue.
A NON-PAYING BIDDER ALERT IS A SIMPLE REMINDER. It has no effect on a user what so ever if they recieve a NPBA. This is merely a service ebay provides to remind a buyer who has not made their payment within 7 days. THAT IS WHY EBAY OFFERS TO DO THIS FOR SELLERS !!!
What all of you fail to understand is that I give my buyers 14 days to pay, I simply remind them after 7 days by sending them the NPBA. This process does not damage the buyers standings on ebay in any way, shape, or form !!!! I DID NOT LEAVE A NEG COMMENT AFTER 7 DAYS !!!!!!!
When you file a FVF it does count against the buyer. Now understand this, after the 17 days of waiting to file a FVF on a buyer is expired then the 14 days I offer have also expired by that time to. In all actuallity my buyers have 17 days to pay !!! If the payment is not recieved by then I file the FVF and relist my auction. THIS IS EXTREMELY FAIR AND I SEE BY THE RESPONSES ON THIS THREAD THAT YOU PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE EBAY RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!
posted on November 22, 2000 03:37:07 AM
CIX,
I am glad you found the information provided by us ignorant people to be helpfull. Please feel free to come to us again whenever you have a problem and we will be glad to lend you more support.
posted on November 22, 2000 03:41:03 AMEVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF EYEGUN) IS FLAT OUT AS IGNORANT AS MY BUYER, OR MORE SO !!!
cix
You comments are very close to crossing the boundaries of basic etiquette - a requirement of the CGs for posting within the Message Center. Please remember to discuss the topic at hand, not the individual/s.
posted on November 22, 2000 03:42:10 AM
Well come on !!
Everyone is saying the buyer was right in doing what she did and it is not right !!!
Why would anyone leave a negative for a simple reminder to pay ???
Whether the reminder comes from me personally or ebay, it should not matter as it is only a reminder.
NPBA are nothing unless they are followed by a FVF.
Everyone really needs to understand this.
And ExecutiveGirl, as for your statement, "The seller stated in their TOS "Payment must be received within 14 days". On the 7th day the SELLER filed for a NPB alert! She went against her own TOS!"
NO, I did not go against my own TOS. I did not leave a Neg after 7 days !!!!
[ edited by cix on Nov 22, 2000 03:58 AM ]
posted on November 22, 2000 04:41:45 AMcix, an NPB is not a "simple reminder to pay." It can have negative consequences for a bidder. From ebay's info on the subject:
"Non-Paying bidders face the following consequences through this program:
First offense: warning
Second offense: warning
Third offense: warning and 30 day suspension
Fourth offense: indefinite suspension. "
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/npb.html
All a perfectly reasonable bidder needs is two more overeager sellers like you, and he's out the door....for following the seller's "rules" rather than the seller's "intent", to use a now-hackneyed term.
Moreover, ebay provides the bidder an opportunity to have the NPB removed from his file:
Why would ebay have such a form if the NPB were merely a "reminder"?
BTW, your shouting and remarks in your last posts - when you didn't get the approbation you seem to think you richly deserve - speaks eloquently to your attitude. I pity your hapless bidders.
posted on November 22, 2000 05:15:10 AMWhat all of you fail to understand is that I give my buyers 14 days to pay, I simply remind them after 7 days by sending them the NPBA. This process does not damage the buyers standings on ebay in any way, shape, or form !!!! I DID NOT LEAVE A NEG COMMENT AFTER 7 DAYS !!!!!!!
If you chose to continue doing this, in order to avoid more negs in the future you might want to consider adding something like this to your auction:
"Payment must be made within 14 days of auction close. A Non-Paying Bidder Alert (NPBA) will be filed with eBay after 7 days as a reminder. This is only a reminder. You still have a full 14 days to get the payment to me."
This will allow you to continue using this policy and still remain within the terms of your TOS. You probably won't have to worry about negs then as you will have no bidders.
Edited for speeeling...
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Nov 22, 2000 05:16 AM ]
posted on November 22, 2000 05:58:12 AM
First I want to say I always pay promptly.
"14 days to pay from auction end". I send out NPBA to all buyers who have not made payment within the first we>>
If you give 14 days and file a Npba in 7 I would neg you to. All kinds of things can happen and instead of giving your bidders the positive benefit of the doubt you give them the shaft. If you state payment 14 days to pay auction then you should give them that time before you file a NPBA and if not they have every right to neg you. I certainly would at the very least. She shouldn't have waited for the item to arrive. Your terms are insane and very unbusiness like. A you deserved to be negged.
and it would be a real sizzler.
