posted on November 23, 2000 08:08:49 AM new
600 FB Buyer (with no negatives!) purchased a new-in-the-box Panasonic SuperDisk Palmcam from me. Emailed me when he received it that it didn't have the right UPC bar code so he couldn't get some $100 rebate Panasonic was offering (I knew nothing about the rebate and no mention was made of a rebate in my ad). My cameras come new from the supplier, and all come with a full 12 month warranty, just as this buyer's did. Buyer contacted me requesting $100 to pay for this "Rebate" to which I politely declined, and referred him to Panasonic. Then he told me I was a fool to not pay him the "small" amount of $100 considering the blistering negative he would leave if I didn't. Of course I didn't pay, and sure enough he left completely false feedback saying that the camera "looked like it came from a pawn shop" (I have the wholesale invoice with serial # to prove I bought this camera new 10 days before the auction closed) and that I "refused a refund" (He never asked for refund, which we would have gladly given! He only asked for the $100!!!) I hope you can help me with this rather disturbing situation . This is seriously affecting my ability and willingness to continue selling on Ebay!
Best regards (And Happy Thanksgiving to All),
Big Shack
posted on November 23, 2000 08:12:51 AM new
Forward a copy of the email (with full headers!) to [email protected], with the subject line FEEDBACK EXTORTION. This clearly qualifies, as the buyer is attempting to us the threat of negative feedback to coerce you into an action which is not normally a seller's obligation in the transaction. I'd send the buyer a CC: of the email. Maybe it will shut him up. Feedback extortion is a suspendable offense.
always pickersangel everywhere
posted on November 23, 2000 08:30:00 AM new
Also, respond calmly and factually in your feedback profile to explain to other bidders what REALLY happened.
posted on November 23, 2000 08:30:30 AM new
Get all of you facts - his emails to you, your emails in reply, a copy of the auction listing, and anything else you have and email it all to safeharbor. it sounds like you have a very compelling case to show.
I had to do this once and had a neg taken off my feedback. Just show them the facts. it may take about three weeks, but if you email them a good case, your neg can be taken off and this buyer may even be suspended - let's hope so.
posted on November 23, 2000 08:31:47 AM new
Don't sweat the small stuff - feedback is meaningless ...
If you do want to play the feedback game, then post a response to that idiot's feedback asking any concerned bidders to contact you for the real story ...
posted on November 23, 2000 10:50:57 AM newReply to his negative comment with a link to a page that has your e-mail correspondents with this flake.
eBay will remove such comments summarily, putting such a link in the comment is specifically against eBay rules (along with profanity, ...)
I believe that "immediately offered full refund including all shipping" is a definitive response to any such negative feedback.
And in cases like this, I've found it to be an effective response to demander: "If you'd like a full refund including shipping, please return it immediately in the condition it was sent in. I'm sorry your expectations were not met, but I know nothing of any rebate offer, and I remain confident that my description was accurate and complete".
It's worked every time for me, never heard from them again. But I suppose the day is coming.
posted on November 23, 2000 10:58:14 AM new
Ok....try this!!!!! Make a web site up with one of those free weps site companies.....scan the copy you have from the dealer...plus put a small not about the whole problem you ran into with this person...you might want to include a photo of the item...if you have .....then when you reply to the feedback...put the www. in were the feedback goes...say the link expalines everything.....this way you can explain a lot more then the sell can.......this way
posted on November 23, 2000 11:16:16 AM new
Ignore this and move on. Respond to neg with something bland and factual on the line of "Item new in box. Demanded $100 "rebate" post-sale. I refused; he negged me." And post the same thing to his own FB. Any reasonable bidder and seller will understand. You did the right thing.
posted on November 23, 2000 01:57:55 PM newthe 'problem' with your suggestion ("offered a refund" etc.) is that it implies that there was some fault here with the item or the shipping.
I offer such a refund "no fault", if for no other reason than that making the offer greatly reduces the sress of any problem whatsoever. Buyer need not become accusative to get me to offer the refund. That seems to be at odds with any implication of fault.
I've had a couple of buyers take me up on it, and return the stuff, and I of course quickly sent the refund. I looked at what came back, wondered what went wrong, but just listed it again and moved on. No sense burning energy.
Relevant to this discussion, the buyers who took this option never made anything which came close to a "rebate" demand. For whatever reason, that wasn't quite what they had in mind when they wrote the check.
posted on November 23, 2000 02:20:29 PM new
Hello, I had several simular problems myself in the past few years. Just recently I had a newbie slam me for not being polite! I had another person try to hold me to an auction in which i bought a pair of dive fins from him (in Florida) and he wanted $42.78 for shipping them to PA...They only weighed 3 lbs. I've found that if you take the time to post feedback and a response to him. that states see the "About Me" site for information about the issue, People do read it. They'll even offer a few select words about the underhandedness of the person to you.
Take time to fill out the "About Me" leave the facts about this buyer. Other will be more than happy you did it. Not only that but if eBay reviews your case, it will be stricken from your record. but make sure that you send them all information and contacts with the buyer. Don't wait like I did, cause it does have a time limitation to it.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth....I hope that you take it from someone who's been there!
posted on November 24, 2000 10:37:41 AM new
Hi:
For anyone still following this thread, Safe Harbor won't do a thing about the siituation. Here is the email I received this morning:
Hello Mark,
Thank you for contacting us regarding the feedback that was left on your
file. We understand your concern in this situation and have reviewed the
feedback comment in question. Unfortunately, we found that the comment
that was left does not meet the requirements for removal as outlined in
our feedback removal policy found at:
I know this is very upsetting and if you feel that this comment has to
be removed, you will need to get a court order or go through a mediator
such as SquareTrade. For more information on that, please refer to the
URL below:
I hope this information has helped. While I know this was not the
response you were expecting, I hope it addresses your concern. Again,
we thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter.
Regards,
Vanessa C. D.
eBay Customer Support
Folks, does anybody have any experience with filing suit against Ebay? I have a small claims court right down the street from me who says I can sue Ebay for up to $5000 for a $60 filing fee (which would be returned if I won the case). Any thoughts?
posted on November 24, 2000 10:57:16 AM new
Sellers are going to have to learn that eBays most valuable asset is its buyers, not its sellers.
As we are seeing, if you have a herd of buyers, more sellers will appear than you need.
When eBay went to Disney to sell them on the idea of listing with eBay, do you think eBay went in with figures on the number of sellers at eBay ? Don't think so.
Sellers are an interchangable commodity now at eBay, and if eBay loses a few or a lot - so what - there are plenty to take their place. It is the buyer eBay wants to put their brand on and represents their principle market value.
[ edited by reamond on Nov 24, 2000 10:58 AM ]
posted on November 24, 2000 11:18:06 AM new
Sue them under the same laws that make ISPs and site administrators responsible for the content on their boards. AOL lost millions in defamation lawsuits back in the mid 1990's before they tightened everything up. (Just like our own beloved AW boards - look how closely they monitor them - because they don't want to be SUED!)
posted on November 24, 2000 11:27:33 AM new
One more thing to address the incorrect rantings of the "Buyers" above that think they walk on water- Do you also do faith healing in your spare-time?(with my apologies to all reasonable buyers):
Really it is the BUYERS who are interchangeable and replaceable, not the SELLERs. Plus, by definition ebay cannot exist without sellers. There were SELLERS on ebay before there were any BUYERS. Were does Ebay make 90% of its profit - from SELLER-paid listing, reserve, and Final Value fees. Ebay knows that SELLERS butter their bread - If you are only a BUYER, E-bay doesn't get a penny from you directly! Buyers come and go - Sellers tend to be constant if they have a good product. For every new Seller on Ebay there are approx. 25 new buyers - you do the math - now who is REALLY expendable???
posted on November 24, 2000 12:25:06 PM newhave a small claims court right down the street from me who says I can sue Ebay for up to $5000 for a $60 filing fee (which would be returned if I won the case). Any thoughts?
Small claims courts don't issue injunctions, which is what eBay means when they say "court order".
Secondly, you're not going to win any money from eBay over undeserved feedback, not in small claims courts because they don't handle that type of "damage", and not in a higher court because eBay has their ducks lined up properly to prevent it.
Wrong tree. eBay's position is well planned and hasn't changed much over time, and their advice is sound given their position.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:20:15 PM new
I'm sorry, but I take my professional reputation seriously and will utilize all weapons at my disposal. Though I'm sure specific state laws differ, my Court clerk says SEVERAl cases have been filed in small claims court here vs. Ebay. Whats very interesting is NOT ONE ever made it to trial - all settled out of court! Now I'm really eager to see what happens! No matter what, I can cost them some them time as they have to have someone represent them at the hearing, even if the case is eventually dismissed. Perhaps this is why all the cases get settled before they get to this point - I would think even a discount atty. would charge $300 or more to show up in court for an out-of-state defendant. It amazing what you can learn from the court clerk if you just ask!
posted on November 24, 2000 01:26:15 PM new
PS: I think first I'll pay the $15 for a Sqaure Trade dispute resolution before I spend $60 to file a suit. I've never used Sqaure Trade, maybe they can help. I'll keep you posted.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:35:23 PM new
bigshack- take it easy, I'm a seller too on eBay. However, buyers do walk on water in this market. There is similar controversy on Amazon auctions. Sellers claim Amazon is lax on NPB and neg FB. The bottom line at Amazon is that that buyer is in all likelyhood an Aamzon customer too, so Amazon has nothing to gain by siding with a seller in these circumstances.
But the fact is, a buyer is far more valuable for eBay than a seller. Sellers are now easy to get and the competition shows it.
Buyers are a far more limited commodity and represent far more value to the market.
Any gap in a sales niche will be filled almost immediately. Not so for a gap in buyers.
[ edited by reamond on Nov 24, 2000 09:18 PM ]
posted on November 26, 2000 07:14:53 AM new
Update:
Now this buyer from Hell has instigated an Ebay fraud investigation over the matter. Of course I gave Ebay all the relevant facts, including a copy of the wholesale invoice from Panasonic, but based on past experience, there is just no way to tell what they are going to do.
My atty. says the 1997 Communications act made it difficult to sue the message board operator (ie Ebay or AW). This was a response to the millions of $s AOL paid out on similar claims from 1993-1996.
Atty. suggests if I really want to get nasty, have him sue the guy! He will have to come to my state if he wants to defend himself! (Venue cannot be contested) And if he ignores the summons (as he likely will), a default judgement would be entered against him! This would then go to his credit history file!
I can't believe I'm even thinking about this, but this guy has redefined for me the "Buyer from Hell!"
posted on November 26, 2000 07:56:10 AM new
I think you would be spending more money than you would ever hope to collect. Besides, how would you serve the papers on the person, if they are out of state?
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on November 26, 2000 08:56:56 AM new
I think your attorney is wrong. If you look at the statutes on service and proper venue, in most states, service must take place in the state where the person lives, AND the plaintiff must sue the defendant in the county where the defendant lives. Otherwise, the court does not have jurisdiction over the defendant. In other words, if you live in NY and the defendant lives in CA the NY courts will NOT have jurisdiction over the defendant if he is served in CA, nor can he be sued in NY courts, since the venue is wrong. PLUS any verdict against him would likely be overturned due to improper service and lack of jurisdiction.
posted on November 26, 2000 09:39:18 AM new
These very issues have already been addressed. Private proccess servers run $40-100 to serve the guy. And under Texas law, a citizen of the state who has been wronged can sue any individual anywhere. And yes, he could file a motion for change of venue, but that would likely be denied. If it were granted, of course I would have the option to hire an atty. in the buyers home state. And under the "full faith and credit" clause of the US constition, judgements in one state are enforcable in the 49 others. This is the same law that forces a marriage in one state to be recognized in all others.
Sorry, but my attorney specializes in business law and I assure you he is not mistaken (unlike AlGore's attorney's and the FL supreme court!!)
posted on November 26, 2000 09:48:55 AM new
PS - This may be relevant. I recall one time when the company I was working for got sued over some magazine advertising bills. The publisher of the magazine was in NY, and the suit was filed in NY. I remember the day the process server showed up at our office - He delivered what looked like a thin blue booklet to the company - turns out these were the service papers from the court in NY. My company had to hire an attorney in NY to avoid having a default judgement filed against them. In the end it was settled out of court but the NY firm definitely had no problem suing the Texas firm I worked at in a NY court.
posted on November 26, 2000 11:56:37 AM new
bigshack--Don't waste your money on Square Trade. They will take your $15 and all they will do is send 1 email to buyer, close your case, and say "sorry". You can get that for free from safeharbor.
I do like the idea of suing ebay in small claims court....
