abacaxi
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posted on December 1, 2000 06:18:14 PM new
Stusi -
I have seen the group in action, and they are aggressive and confrontational in their handing out of their tracts. Refusing to take no for an answer, they can be seen following their hapless target down the street, haranguing them about the need to change religions. I think I described them accurately, if bluntly.
The stealth auction fundraising for/by one of their "missionaries" is an example of their ethics ...
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albreguet
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posted on December 1, 2000 06:19:29 PM new
Goodness, I wished I had your problems!
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stusi
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posted on December 1, 2000 06:34:53 PM new
abacaxi- you are totally missing the point! you may be 100% right in your assessment . this is not the place to discuss it. this is AUCTION WATCH!!!!!!! this is an ebay outlook board, not an AOL chat!!!!! there is no question that hiding the religious affiliation is unethical. the discussion could be kept generic in terms of any charity doing the same thing. there seems to be those who encourage such religious/political chats here and you are violating the AW guidelines.
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mzalez
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posted on December 1, 2000 06:55:05 PM new
montecristo, if there was no mention of the charity thing in the auction--and especially about the 'requirement' to post your name, I think this would be a violation of eBay's rules for auctions and you could void this sale.
No group like this has the right to bully you into posting your name where you don't want it. Go with the ANONYMOUS suggestion.
However you say you really would like this item you won. Why not discuss this situation with your priest and see what he says to do? That's what the Padre is there for. I think it is wonderful that you have such deep personal integrity. God bless you!
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pattaylor
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posted on December 1, 2000 07:05:04 PM new
Ahem!
A reminder: Please address the topic, not the individual.
Once again, thanks for your cooperation.
Pat
[email protected]
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brighid868
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posted on December 1, 2000 07:27:28 PM new
abacaxi said:
>>The stealth auction fundraising for/by one of their "missionaries" is an example of their ethics ...>>>
I will HEARTILY second this. This group was so unbelievably obnoxious and verging on the disruptive at my college that many people went long distances out of their way to avoid particular parts of the campus where their missionaries (NOT students, but just random groups of persons who would come to the college to proslytize vigorously among our large Jewish population) would follow one down the street trying to convert the "unfulfilled or incomplete Jews" as they *loudly* called Jews who did not believe in Jesus' saviorhood.
There are plenty of Christian/Catholic/Jewish/Muslim/Hindu/Pagan/Atheist/Buddhist/Non-Denominational/Secular Humanist organizations that I would gladly support and/or make a donation to, even if I were not a member of that faith, if an auction required it to get an item, but I personally would never support this particular sect. And before anyone continues to say it's not relevant, I think it's *very* relevant for the original poster to know that just because they are well-established does not necessarily mean anything positive about their organization. I'm sure they have a nice friendly website...they had nice friendly flyers too, but their tactics were anything but friendly.
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macandjan
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:12:58 PM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 4, 2000 11:37 AM ]
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macandjan
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:19:21 PM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 4, 2000 11:38 AM ]
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stusi
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:27:15 PM new
this is not a religious or political issue. it is strictly an issue of a seller stating after the fact that they were going to make the buyer's winning an auction public. it is a violation of ebay rules and ethics in general. how this evokes a discussion of the merits or lack thereof of this particular religious group on an auction chat is beyond me! the topic is one that deserves discussion but the specific religion involved is irrelevant.
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starrr222
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:41:04 PM new
Take the deduction and don't worry about it!!
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krs
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:48:26 PM new
Oh Mod, Let us prey.
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tuition44years
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posted on December 1, 2000 08:58:23 PM new
Ditto Stusi .. the problem is with them posting your personal info in a public forum. If it were ME? I would inform them that they are in violation of ebays rules pertaining to using personal information obtained through their site and that if they insist on posting your name, you will report them to safe harbor and ______ (fill in the blank with any other appropropriate 'powers that be'.) Then proceed with the auction like any other auction.
You did not intentionally make a donation to something you don't support. I don't see that you made a donation at all .. you placed a bid, won an item and are now purchsing it! The seller can donate the profits to whomever HE/SHE pleases! JMHO
Edited to add: Any donations I've made have clearly stated on the receipt/thank you that I did not receive anything in return for my donation!
_________________
I have a memory like a steel trap .. unfortunately it's rusted shut!
[ edited by tuition44years on Dec 1, 2000 09:00 PM ]
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pattaylor
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posted on December 1, 2000 09:05:56 PM new
Everyone,
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page: Please confine your discussion to the subject of this thread, which is the fact that a bidder has learned after the fact that his payment will go to benefit an organization, and that his name is to be included on a list of donors.
Please do not discuss specific organizations or religions.
Pat
[email protected]
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sparkz
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posted on December 1, 2000 09:22:16 PM new
Send them a money order. If they want a name to post on their web site, give 'em one. Just make sure it's not yours.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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abacaxi
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posted on December 2, 2000 03:52:59 AM new
stusi -
If the auction in question had been for PETA, "Homes for Unwed Chads", or the "Free Tibet" foundation (one of which I actually support with donations) it would be equally reprehensible for them to retroactively inform the buyer that they had suddenly become a supporter of the cause.
Although I am not Christian, I occasionally bid on auctions where the seller declares the money will go to support missionaries. If any seller were to inform me AFTER the auction ended that the money would be donated in MY name and MY name and address would be made available to the "Society for Badgering Buddhists", or the KKK, I would be distinctly unhappy. They have no right to make that decision for me.
[b]montecristo - The buyer's plan
VIOLATES EBAY PRIVACY POLICY!!! You can trn them in to safe harbor! Please do. [/b]
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-priv.html#5 has the details:
"In addition, under no circumstances, except as defined in this Section, can you disclose personally identifiable information about another user to any third party without our consent and the consent of such other user after adequate disclosure"
You had no "adequate disclosure" and you have not given your consent. Case closed.
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loosecannon
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posted on December 2, 2000 04:33:08 AM new
Jews for Jesus has quietly been around for decades, and they mean no harm. Just pay for the auction and get your thingie.
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rivercity1
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posted on December 2, 2000 06:19:23 AM new
I think that I would just pay for the item, because I bid on it and wanted the item and not worry about where the money goes. That is adding stress and needless worry. That is like going to a yard sale and deciding you wouldn't buy any of their mdse. because you didn't like the clutter of lawn ornaments in their front yard, and you were not going to contribute more money for those folks to go out and buy more ugly lawn ornaments. Pay your bill and move on. On the other hand, if a charitable contribution is handed your way, check with your tax expert, and you may want to use it anyway. As far as the Church objection, they also contribute to "Non-Catholic" charities throughout the world in countless missionary endeavors and absolutely do not even look at the religious affiliation of the intended receipiant. Give your gift without malice and your return rewards will be far greater than what you can possibly imagine. Peace.
If Fed Ex and UPS were to merge, would they call it FedUP?
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mark090
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posted on December 2, 2000 08:37:51 AM new
They have no right to post your name as a contributor with out your permission. Just make them aware of that.
Also, they said it was tax deductible which is incorrect. As one other said, only the portion that exceeds the actual value of the item is tax deductible. And taking the whole amount as a tax deduction, if I read your X's right, will send a red flag to the IRS for sure.
It is unethical for any "Christian" organization to use these methods and distribute the misinformation as this group has done and I would think that an organization of this size would know this. I suspect it is a individual who believes in this organization and is doing this on his own to "help" the cause he believes in. I wouldn't place the blame on the organization until I absolutely knew.
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stusi
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posted on December 2, 2000 08:40:21 AM new
a_____i- (not to a specific poster) i totally agree with you. your previous comments,however, calling a specific religion(of which i am not a member) obnoxious, were inflammatory and had no place on an auction site.
this thread should be closed as all possible points have been made by all. thanks, pat-it's about time you stated AW's position!
[ edited by stusi on Dec 2, 2000 08:41 AM ]
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snowyegret
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posted on December 2, 2000 09:21:17 AM new
montechristo: I hope you get this resolved to your sastifaction. 
stusi: http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=9&thread=13609
 http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=9&thread=13618
[ edited by snowyegret on Dec 2, 2000 09:26 AM ]
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Brooklynguy-07
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posted on December 2, 2000 10:03:14 AM new
<b>"I am concerned that because I am Catholic, my Parrish might be upset if they know that I made a large cash donation to another denomination".<b>
Don't worry they will forgive you as long as you double next weeks donation.
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loosecannon
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posted on December 5, 2000 05:48:38 AM new
pv327
Pathetic, racist post.
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Meya
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posted on December 5, 2000 05:50:02 AM new
And lifted totally out of context as far as the scripture that was quoted. Not that this is the place to be quoting scripture anyway...
Time for this thread to be ended.
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MichelleG
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posted on December 5, 2000 05:55:46 AM new
I completely agree, Meya.
There have been several requests made to confine comments to discussing the situation itself not the religious organisations involved, and yet some still persist. If anyone wishes to voice their opinion regarding this or any other religious organisation, please take it to the Round Table. I am locking this thread.
MichelleG
Moderator
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