I am a seller and bidder who's been wronged by Ebay.
If you want to learn a bit more please read EBAY SUCKS on the Ebay Outlook. There are a lot of goofy replies but the basics are all there.
I want to proove a point.
Although I live in Canada I am willing to launch suit, even if only in Small claims against Ebay and travel to Seattle or wherever Ebay is based. I want to launch suit against Ebay/A member of Safe Harbor/ and possibley Meg and or Pierre.
I need either a lawyer or someone with knowledge of a lawyer in Ebay's district.
Also, if you've been wrongly treated and want to join in please email me at [email protected] for more info and if you want to make a donation to this mission it would be most graciously accepted.
I think this is an opportunity to show this greedy, arrogant multi-billion dollar company that it can't always trod over people's reputations and businesses. I think this is an opportunity to truly let these folks now why the way they do business isn't reasonable at times and quite unfair. But it's going to take more than one disgruntled person to make this happen!
Thanks,
Jamie
canvid13
514-270-7478
[email protected]
[ edited by canvid13 on Dec 2, 2000 04:29 PM ]
posted on December 2, 2000 06:21:46 PM
MACANDJAN: lol, at least you have a sense of humor!!
It's a shame you don't want to discuss the issue one way or another. I mean, this is a discussion board as opposed to a flame board, no?
Twelvepeople: Oops, Ebay is based in San Jose, California!
And finally kistch: You're right. This is all about accountability. Mine, and Ebay's. Ebay has trashed my good name and I want to clear it. It's quite simple.
posted on December 2, 2000 06:25:33 PM
This is a joke - right?
Some no body with no money is going to sue eBay, and doesn't even know where their headquarters are? This has got to be a joke!
Don't get me wrong - I think someone should take their derrière's to court, but someone more like Bill Gates (or someone with equal status, intelligence and income) - but no "little" person is going to even get a blink out of a law suit against eBay.
AND no attorney who is worth anything, or has anything else in the world to do will take the case - without major money, and a real cause.
A major class action suit, with tons of money behind it might get eBay's attention, but nothing less.
But since this is obviously a joke, - LOL - and I love your grounds for the suit - "eBay sucks! " HA HA HA.....tell us some more!
posted on December 2, 2000 07:08:13 PM
What exactly are you going to sue them for? Not letting you ingnore their guidlines? I don't see what your complaint is....
posted on December 2, 2000 07:36:53 PMIf they make you whole again which is the usual standard of recovering damages they award will be something like your fees for 20 auctions and the possible profit you lost on the 20 transactions.
canvid13 what are your losses?
When they closed your auctions, they refunded your listing fees.
Possible profit? You still have the items and can sell them at any time.
Reputation? Not a single bidder, on any of those auctions, were told WHY you were NARUed. For all they know, you could have unregistered yourself because of an emergency .. even though you had auctions running. Your reputation is "sound" to the people who bid upon your auction, unless YOU contacted them and told them something. Ebay certainly didn't say that they canceled your auctions and NARUed you because you were a NPB. The only way you'll be able to prove that they damaged your reputation, is if you can provide something which they said in writing (either email or physical, to someone else, which was damaging.
posted on December 2, 2000 10:06:35 PM
You should be aware that you are not allowed to have an attorney represent you in a small claims action in California unless you are a corporation, which Ebay is and you are not. Are you willing to play David and take on the Ebay Goliath? You can always up the ante and file a regular civil action. That way you can have an attorney represent you when you appear. Be sure you get a good lawyer that has been repeatedly successful in obtaining sizeable judgements against Ebay. Oops! scratch that advice. There is no such lawyer. Anyway, if you can make a good case, and the judge doesn't decide the suit is frivilous and stick you with all of Ebay's legal costs, you may have a chance at getting a monetary judgement in your favor. I would expect to receive less than $1.00 in damages and a bill from your attorney that will make you forever remember your trip to California.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on December 2, 2000 10:54:51 PMIF ANYONE is going to successfully sue Ebay, it's NOT THIS GUY!!!
If you read his previous thread, you'd know that he not only disregarded Ebay guidelines, but he also was quite reckless in the way he left feedback for other users.
Most users manage to keep the pos feedback to neg feedback ratio around 400 pos to 1 neg. This guy has 498 pos and 30 negs. That's right... 30! Not to mention 21 neutrals! (only 3 from NARU's!) God only knows how many users didn't neg him for fear of usual retaliation.
Read his feedback, especially what he wrote to users in retaliation, then see how much sympathy you have. For many users, the neg he left is their only one! What a shame.
Most users make a solid effort to maintain a good relationship with fellow users. We all have problems pop up, but how you deal with people says a lot about you.
Canvid13 insists that the feedback is irrelevant, but to the contrary, it often tells the story. As another poster wrote, it's "all about attitude". And whenever anyone downplays the significance of feedback, you can bet that they have crummy feedback.
Anyone who defends this antisocial and anti-good business recklessness doesn't get the real point.
[ edited by mindreader747 on Dec 3, 2000 12:28 AM ]
posted on December 3, 2000 06:55:28 AM
NARU - being NARU-D by eBay isn't a biggie - like another poster said, "Ebay is like a private club, and you agree to abide by their rules when you join." Even if the rules and their interpretation constantly changes.
After 5+ years, thousands of sales, top feedback, and being a Power Seller, eBay just NARU-D me - no biggie - I knew what I was doing was walking a fine line - and I got away with it for 3 months - it was a matter of interpretation as to the item. eBay said it was one thing, the encyclopedia and history state it is another.
I don't know if they do this for/to everyone but they personally called me about this issue. I wasn't in but my secretary took the call. Apparently, eBay is a bit touchy about NARUing their Power Sellers - and wanted to discuss it with me. I don't intend to discuss an issue which I know I won't win.
So I am suspended for 14 days - I knew it was a possibility when I posted and sold the items - so no biggie - my fees were refunded and I made so much while selling them I can afford the 14 days off - anyway I have been doing most of my selling in the last year on Yahoo - so I'm out nothing - and have no desire to fight with eBay.
posted on December 3, 2000 07:04:57 AM
WOw, these are some really good discussion points. I'm impressed.
Yes, I am willing to go to California for small claims. I used to live there.
I agree with just about everyone's point.
The fact is that until someone, anyone, stands up to any monolithic corporation things probably won't change.
I have followed Ebay's rules. No, I don't have the best customer service record as a buyer or seller but that's not pertinent to what Ebay has done.
And what they have done to me they have done to others and will continue to until someone stands up to them.
If I were to win, even in small claims, do you think that Ebay could still keep some of their practices without risking a larger or even class action suit?
Some of you may not like the way I do business or how I treat customers and you are entitled to think what you want but we have something very much real here.
To encapsulate:
Ebay suspended my main account after 4 alleged NPD's. I recieved one warning to which I replied that the goods were recieved by me so that there was no way I couldn't have paid for them. The seller concurred.
After no reply I figured that it would be easier to go through the 30 day suspension than fight and research. I am a busy seller on other sites and was using Ebay predominantly to buy on.
While initially trying to fight the suspension they kept telling me my account wasn't suspended? I explained them that it was and finally after I explained to them my second account was active they suspeneded that one too! Even though there were no infractions.
After I appealed to Safe Harbor they reinstated the second account. I continued to use it.
Recently I listed over 20 auctions. I also was bidding on numerous items. Ebay suspended that account with no new infractions, emails or warning.
Emails were sent out to all bidders and sellers I was involved in.
After many emails and phone calls with Ebay they have now reinstated both accounts as it turned out that 3 of the 4 alleged NPD's were not accurate or following Ebay's own guidelines.
No apologies for my lost auctions, time, or money. Nothing about the time that my main account was suspended. Nada.
I issued them an email explaining that this wasn't satisfactory. I would write a press release and issue suit.
Ebay replied with an email with their legal department's mailing address ( I guess they get sued alot!).
At that point I have started this email thread.
And thanks for those that have discussed this.
The point isn't whether I'm Mr. Customer Service. What's happened to me can happen (and has) to anyone on Ebay.
Please continue this feed. I need all the help and advice I can get before I go fully public and take the first step.
posted on December 3, 2000 07:12:32 AM
canvid ...
It's been a while since I read the eBay TOS, but I believe that you agreed to use "binding arbitration" in any disputes.
If you have several THOUSAND dollars to spare, call a lawyer and go for it. But you have apparently failed to complete several transactions, and were NARUd mainly because of that.
posted on December 3, 2000 07:16:05 AM
I AM SORRY BUT I highly question the fact that eBay would knowingly NARU you on one account and ALLOW you to continue to sell on another.
They have a prewritten format they send when they do a NARU on you and it plainly states that you can not SELL AT ALL - and not under any other account or name.
As I said, I KNOW what it says since I just experienced it.
ALSO - your feedback IS important when one wishes to evaluate the truthfulness of your statements - and it makes what you say quite dubious.
Regarding your question:"If I were to win, even in small claims, do you think that Ebay could still keep some of their practices without risking a larger or even class action suit?"
My answer is YES - eBay wouldn't give a flip about such a trite win, in a small claims court.
It sounds to me like you brought the problem on yourself - AND you "say" you are really active on other sites - then it should be no biggie to you about the eBay NARU- get a life - move on and wait out the suspension.
posted on December 3, 2000 07:59:53 AM
80+ posts later & we finally get some of the facts.
First off, as I've previously mentioned, as have others, when 1 ID gets suspended, so do ALL the others. ie your account gets suspended.
Secondly, if in fact "3 of the 4 alleged NPD's were not accurate or following Ebay's own guidelines", then yes, you have every right to be PO'd at eBay. Of course at this point, we've only heard your side of the story thus far.
In the other thread you admitted not sending funds to more than one seller due to the fact they had already negged you, correct? Perhaps you could explain why now you are stating that ""3 of the 4 alleged NPD's were not accurate or following Ebay's own guidelines"?
You stated:
"Also, a few of those who NPD me left me NF which is also their perogitive but surely we all could understand why I wouldn't send these folks money afterwards??"
Sounds to me like more than 1 NPB warning was justified? The fact that you never received a warning from eBay doesn't amount to much, for all anyone knows it could be due to your ISP having email problems?
BTW - You state you used to live in CA, does these mean you're an American living in Canada?
posted on December 3, 2000 09:54:43 AM
REDDEER: I am a Canadian that lived in Los Angeles.
Again you're straying from the points I'm arguing and focusing on my record. Why did Ebay reinstate my second account? If it was the error of someone in safe harbor then it's still Ebay's fault.
And yes, you're right. If I followed every single rule to the exact T maybe, perhaps, some of this wouldn't have happened. But life doesn't always go by the book.
The fact is that Ebay has mishandled these circumstances in a manner that has been harmful to myself.
And they've done this to others and probably one day will do it to you. Believe me, there's always a goofball seller or bidder out there who will botch you up somehow.
It's about accountability. If I mess up, Ebay, or any other company will suspend or cancel my account. What about when they screw up??
That's all I'm after here. They screwed up and simply reinstated both of my accounts without so much as an apology.
If I'd truly been wrong why would they reinstate my accounts?
Also, if this was you would you use the account knowing at anytime some goofball clerk could shut it down and trash your name again??
I think Ebay has to take responsibility for what it's done. If they'd done that instead of sending me a stream of emails from people within Safeharbor who don't know what the next person in Safeharbor had sent me this wouldn't have come to this.
So I don't mind spending 10 or 15 minutes a day to try and solve this and I won't mind leaving the turgid wintry North to come down to California to take this claim to court if I have to.
I'd really like to hear from people who've had similiar types of run ins with Ebay.
posted on December 3, 2000 10:01:30 AM
Canvid - Take it from someone who has been down the road of litigation with ebay.
Let it go
First off they got that Arbritration Clause it will take approximately four court hearings and 40 hours of legal fees to overcome that one. Next you are Canadian so why not sue them in Canada? Finally you got reinstated and can relist your items and life goes on.
Should you decide to try and pursue the litigation. First off sue them in a United States Court. They are already on record in three Federal Districts for ignoring the Arbritration Clause. Next sue them in the Seventh Federal District in Chicago. Where they are already on record for breaking the Arbritration Clause and on record with filing Frivilous actions themselves before the court.
Now before marching to Federal Court in America. Remember these important facts that ebay themselves obviously were not aware of. First off you have to show $50,000.00 in monetary damages. Next off before filing the actual suit. Seek a temporary restraining order against ebay barring any suspensions using an arbritary rules system that strips the Constitutional Right of Due Process.
Well think about it first and review your options and you will discover that with your accounts reinstated you have already won.
[ edited by networker67 on Dec 3, 2000 10:03 AM ]
