posted on December 11, 2000 10:16:19 AM new
I'm confused. Yesterday I had an auction ended under BIN. The auction had several more days to run. Within an hour I had an email from the buyer, wanting to know if she could wait 10 days to mail payment. Huh? Why couldn't she have placed an opening bidder (lower than BIN) and waited for the auction to end? People were not exactly knocking down doors to buy this book. Oh well. . .
rca001
posted on December 11, 2000 10:20:00 AM new
You gotta love those kind of buyers...the worst of it is, there is nothing you can really do but wait them out. Good luck!
posted on December 11, 2000 11:06:40 AM newthere is nothing you can really do but wait them out.
I beg to differ.
rca001 says bidder BIN with "several days to go" in the auction. Say seller listed item in 7-day auction on day 1, and BIN occurred on day 2. Bidder wants to SEND payment 10 days later - i.e., day 12, adn that it takes a minimum of 4 days to reach seller. Seller will therefore most likely not receive payment until at least day 16.
If seller relists this item now (on day 3) as a 5-day auction, auction will end on day 8 - FOUR DAYS before the BIN bidder even intends to send payment. Assume high bidder waits 2 days to send payment - day 10 - and that it again takes a minimum of 4 days to reach seller. Seller may therefore recieve payment by day 14 and possibly even as earily as day 12.
It is therefore MORE likely that seller will receive payment from high bidder in a NEW auction BEFORE seller would receive payment from the current BIN bidder. And this doesn't even consider the possibility that some other party might BIN on round 2, resulting in payment even earlier than if the 5-day auction ran its course.
Moreover, bidding could go higher than BIN on this second go-round.
Under the circumstances, I'd say it's worth the risk of having NO bidders and relist the item in a 5-day auction, and I'd void the BIN.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 11, 2000 11:07 AM ]
posted on December 11, 2000 11:34:38 AM new
Buyer "BIN'd" on day 4 of a 7 day auction, at a price 25% higher than opening bid. Its hit or miss whether this item will get another bid. I'm inclined to wait for this buyer. I found it ironic - I thought BIN bidders were eager to end the auction early and get the item in their hands as soon as possible. From what I've seen in other auctions this is the norm. Oh well, she must've bid and then looked at her checkbook.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:25:00 PM new
I would not have a problem with that. I give my buyers three weeks to pay, then a reminder, then another 10 days. Be patient.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:32:07 PM new
HCQ, wouldn't it be better to have some money than no money? Of course if you are a gambler, then I guess it could be worth it.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on December 11, 2000 12:42:36 PM new
Gee, I was under the impression that Buy it Now meant just that BUY IT NOW! not Buy it 10 days from Now. I really don't want to wait around 10 days for the person to pay - I wouldn't offer BIN if that was to be the case.
I've noticed that most sellers using Buy It Now offer Paypal, Billpoint or some other credit service. I've purchased 4 items this past week with BIN and have paid the seller right away - 3 of the times I noted their TOS shipping and just paid before they even contacted me. The 4th contacted me within 10 minutes of the item closing.
I think the general consensus with BIN is that you are actually going to have completed the buying part of the transaction within 24 hours if paying by credit card or mailing check/money order payment the next day.
posted on December 11, 2000 01:32:57 PM newwouldn't it be better to have some money than no money
Somebody who used BIN and then wants to send out her payment 10 days after that is not, IME, a reliable bird-in-hand. What this bidder did was to "hold it now" - and perhaps is looking for a better deal in the meantime. Nice way for a bidder to hedge her bets.
If you do decide to accept this bidder's post-auction change to your terms, rca001, I hope you'll let us know how long it does take you to receive her payment.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 11, 2000 01:34 PM ]
posted on December 11, 2000 01:44:44 PM new
BIN, means just that Buy It Now. I offer only electronic payment for the BIN auctions, when they sell (and close) I am immediately responsible for fees to eBay and Billpoint, etc. Not 10 days or whatever later. (Although we are billed once a month) It sounds like the buyer wants a lay-away program. I'm very happy, especially right now with the BIN feature, but would be bummed if the buyers start telling me when "BIN" means "BIS" instead.
posted on December 11, 2000 03:42:50 PM new
Someone mentioned above that the buyer had changed the seller's terms post sale. Where did the seller state in this thread that they specified a shorter payment term for BIN auctions? Where does eBay require that BIN auctions be paid for immediately? I mostly sell on eBay and have used BIN, all my BIN buyers have paid quickly but it was always my assumption that they had the same time to pay (10 days) that is specified for any other buyer in my TOS.
If you require a BIN buyer to pay within say 48 hours you MUST specify that in your TOS otherwise how do you justify voiding the transaction as someone suggested above. In fact the voided buyer would be justified in reporting the seller to safeharbor for refusing to sell them the item they had won.
Unfortunately there's really no instant gratification for auction sellers, if there were I'd have my PayPal debit card already and immediate access to incoming payments.
posted on December 11, 2000 03:58:46 PM newGee, I was under the impression that Buy it Now meant just that BUY IT NOW! not Buy it 10 days from Now.
Not at all. There are different ways to look at Buy It Now. Here's the way I see it:
Buy It Now divides the auction into two parts. The first half of the auction is basically a showcase. Bidders have the option to view the item and consider its worth and their bids. The second half of the auction is when typically (though not always) bids come in.
With Buy It Now, bidders have the option of pre-empting the auction process and securing the item. I would emphasize that since BIN is higher than the minimum bid, the pre-emptive bidder is gambling that bidding will actually go higher than the minimum.
Buy It Now is a perk for the buyer, not the seller. The buyer pays more for the privilege of securing the item.
Obviously there can be many interpretations of how BIN works, but I am not aware of any requirement for immediate payment, expecially when it is not stated in the TOS. To the poster above who complained about immediate billing by eBay, Paypal, etc., I would point out that the same applies to ANY auction, not just BIN.
I would suggest that sellers who expect immediate payment want to have their cake and eat it too.
posted on December 11, 2000 06:36:36 PM newit was always my assumption that they had the same time to pay (10 days) that is specified for any other buyer in my TOS.
Please note that the original poster noted that bidder wanted to "wait 10 days to mail payment". Unless bidder plans on overnighting payment at that point, this is NOT the same as making payment within 10 days.
posted on December 11, 2000 07:30:36 PM new
I've bought a few things using BIN. Paid for them with Billpoint and had the item in less than a week. I thought that was the whole point of BIN, fast. I used it because I wanted the item now. I thought the seller offered it for the same reason, fast turnover. I woulden't blame a seller for being upset if I used BIN to end the auction then asked them to wait for the money.
posted on December 11, 2000 08:55:18 PM newHartCottageQuilts
For all you or I know from the post the seller's normal TOS (if they have one) may state 14 days for payment, they never stated what it was. Not that its important though since their gripe is about not getting paid immediately.
The seller has no one to blame but themselves for not explicitly stating this requirement and instead depending on the customer to share their assumptions.
Adding stringent terms and conditions post sale that weren't listed in the auction itself seems like a recipe for failure as a seller.
If the seller desperately NEEDS every payment right away maybe they're operating too close to the margins for online sales. As for the assertion that this is some sort of layaway plan I would have to agree, in fact I think all auctions that offer REASONABLE payment periods are essentially layaway. Did you ever stop to think that this is one of the reasons people buy things online that they either don't really need or could get from a REAL merchant offline? People have pay days folks and they don't always coincide with the day your auction is ending. Try stating in your ads that you demand payment in 48-72 hours and watch those bids drop.
posted on December 11, 2000 09:36:35 PM new
I use BIN and have good success. I have received payments from PayPal, Personal check and money order. My take on the BIN is if the buyer wants to take a chance and pay the higher price for an item that might not go for the opening bid so be it. I don't require payment with in a time frame because I know that some can't pay. I am not dependent on ebay, I just enjoy selling so when the payment comes I send.
posted on December 12, 2000 05:32:18 AM new
No, bemused, I don't think seller's " gripe is about not getting paid immediately." I think it's about knowing that, at best, they're not going to get paid for AT LEAST 2 weeks.
Interesting question, however: If bidder thought sending out payment 10 days after EOA is acceptable, why did she go so far as to ask whether seller would mind? Clearly bidder knows he's beyond the pale, and is hoping seller will say "Oh for crying out loud, OKAY". After all, if bidder merely sent out payment on day 10 without getting seller's prior OK, seller might file NPB, relist the item and neg bidder.
Just one more reason, boys and girls, to have a published TOS...
posted on December 12, 2000 05:38:17 AM new
I wish people would just use email to ask questions before they bid. How hard would it have been to email and say I want your widget but I won't have the money for 2 weeks do you mind waiting?
posted on December 12, 2000 05:46:45 AM new
HCQ- You might very well be right and this buyer will flake on me, but I'm allowing the sale to stand. I'll let you know when/if I get payment.
Bemused- My TOS say payment postmarked within 7 days. If she waited for the auction to end and mailed it, she would have gotten her 10 days. Instead she chose BIN, starting the clock sooner. Its a small sale, I'm not sweating it, and I don't depend on the cash from these sales for mortgage payments or anything like that.
I started this topic to offer up just another example of slightly startling human behavior on the ever fascinating auction world.
posted on January 3, 2001 07:59:52 AM new
HCQ-
You were absolutely right. On day 10, I received an email from the buyer asking if I accepted Paypal or Billpoint. I responded I didn't with the reasons why. I accept personal check, cashier's check or money order. On day 20, the buyer was NARU'd, probably for NPB, although I can't confirm that. I emailed, giving the history of our emails, and asking if she planned on paying for the book. She responded that she had mailed payment on day 14, and I should have gotten it, she would send another payment. I am not holding my breath, and filed NPB.
HCQ-
Just a quick personal note. I alternate on these forums between admiring your investigative skills and your knowledge of your craft, and hating the way you address certain posters. I know some of my responses to you in the past have been rather snide, because I was responding to what I perceived as a "know-it-all" tone in your posts. Well, this time, you knew it, you can say "I told you so" and you'll be right. (I have a feeling we'd get along terrifically in RL - I can be a real know-it-all as well). Anyway, Happy New Year to you (but not to my BIN-bidder).
rca001
posted on January 3, 2001 08:25:41 AM new
I do not use BIN, but I believe I read somewhere that it's use was FREE now...implying that future fees might apply?
If this is indeed the case, then I see this whole BIN thingy as a devious way for Ebay to generate faster income, since they immediately charge our account for FV, but misleading Seller into believing that this will guarantee INSTANT PAYMENT.
If it does NOT, then Ebay needs to add something to that effect. Instead both Buyer and Seller are mislead: Seller thinks she/he will receive instant funds; Buyer thinks he/she can treat it as a REGULAR Auction.
Ideally, it should say BUY IT NOW/PAY FOR IT NOW...That is the implication, as far as I can see it..
My apology if my assumption is wrong. I better go read all about it
posted on January 3, 2001 10:48:37 AM new
Nothing personal, but it's good to see this absurd Buy it Now manure backfire a little. Maybe eBah should back off the flea market concept and get back to the basics of maintaining an auction site. Buy it Now should be Gone for Now.
posted on January 3, 2001 11:03:28 AM new
Payment is due at the end of an auction. The only reason we allow for 10 days or whatever is to complete the transaction; it's really just a grace period to compensate for delays in the mail system.
posted on January 3, 2001 11:43:31 AM new
It's BIN (Buy it Now) not PIN (Pay it Now).
For me, it's been a super sales tool. Probably 90% of my BIN buyers have paid for it immediately, the remainder preferring to send a payment. I start my 14 day clock for receipt of payment based on the BIN close date just like I would if the auction were actually closing that day.
Not everyone who uses BIN necessarily wants it TODAY. Some of my buyers just want the luxury of knowing they don't have to sit around & wait for a week for the auction to end or risk getting sniped. They like the BIN as a way of "setting aside" the item they've purchased.
I don't care if they pay me now or pay me in 2 weeks..so long as they pay me. So far, not a single BIN buyer had been a deadbeat, something I can't say for the regular auctions.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:03:07 PM new
I love the BIN feature, both as a bidder and a seller.
And I think it might get bidders to search more frequently to get it before someone places a bid. I know I do.
I don't have a problem with when I receive payments. I find payments either come right after the auction, (first week) 10 days after or 3 weeks.
If they aren't there by NPB Alert time I send a letter.
Just not a big thing to me. Either a bidder is going to pay or not, no matter how much you stamp your feet. Sometimes when you think you "won" by having that reluctant bidder pay you find that that bidder will be unhappy with item or something anyway.
Your bidder turned out to be a deadbeat, sorry about that.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:03:17 PM new
By definition, Buy-It-Now does mean Pay for it now.
BUY: to acquire by Payment-Webster's American Dictionary
IT: Pertains to the auctioned items
NOW: 1. at present time. 2. immediately - Webster's American Dictionary.
Who needs a TOS to understand that. Buy-It-Now means Buy-It-Now. No excuses
edited for speling misteaks
[ edited by mark090 on Jan 3, 2001 12:05 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2001 12:04:39 PM new
As to when payment for a BIN auction is due, if you state in your TOS that payment is due within X days of auction close, then that is the due date. As well, Ebay charges the FVF on the BIN close date. At the moment I have a NPB BIN buyer who is almost a week late, although she was advised by email when the payment was due. The unpaid invoice has been sitting at Billpoint since Dec. l5; all my other Billpoint customers paid within a day of getting their invoices. I too thought BIN would expedite payment, but no necessarily so.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:04:49 PM new
I have a really dumb question...Since I cannot get on Ebay to read about BIN, can someone please tell me: BIN does NOT demand payment by Credit Card, right? I had assumed (never, never assume!) that it did.
What if any, are the limitations?
Thanks a mil...
Gosh Shosh!
posted on January 3, 2001 12:08:17 PM new
I used Buy It Now to buy a DVD a while back. I had been bidding on it and was consistently outbid on it every single time it was auctioned. So the next time the DVD was up there was the option to Buy It Now so I used that, making sure that this time I got the DVD I had been after. All the Buy It Now meant to me was that I was able to assure myself that I was getting the item that I wanted without being outbid at the last minute.
Of course I paid within 24 hours but I didn't use the feature to get the item faster. I used it to make sure I got the item, period.
That may be your definition but it's not ebay's & that's the only one that counts.
If you want the BIN people to pay immediately, then write your TOS to state than any BIN sale must be paid for in 24 hours..otherwise, your regular TOS apply.
