ebaynut
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posted on December 18, 2000 10:18:30 AM
I had enough of paypal about a month ago and closed my account. since then I have had about 10 people ask me to accept it. when I said no they all offered to pay the fees, sure I could have raised my auction prices or my shipping fees to cover the price of paypal, but only about 40% of my customers were using it. is it fair to pass the cost onto the bidders who don't use it. paypal is a big benefit for bidders and if they prefer to use it they should bear the cost for it and not expect someone else to pay to make their life easier. since I stopped using it I still have just as many bidders and I get my money faster from bidders sending money orders then when I waited for a check from paypal.whats next all sellers must ship fedex overnite for free because bidders like it.
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chris97
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posted on December 18, 2000 12:46:38 PM
I am one of these sellers that pass the Paypal fees onto people who want to use this service. I'm from Canada so they charge me 2.6% + $0.30 for every item for currency conversion. For many of the items I sell this (along with eBay fees) really bites into any profits I make. I clearly state this on each auction as well as my EOS e-mail so there are no suprises as long as the buyer actually reads this information.
I only charge the exact fee that Paypal charges me and so far no complaints - I don't use it to pad my profits. This is a generally lot cheaper than buying a money order/stamp/time to the post office so that's why I think most people don't have a problem with it. The fee is generally in the $0.50 to $1.25 range for the items I sell.
I have to wonder about the state of ignorant bliss some people must have in regards to them stating their local retailer does not charge them for CC use. Of course they do as it is hidden in the final price of the item.
Up in Canada about 10 years ago they removed the hidden sales tax that the government charged on many retail items and replaced it with a 7% goods and services tax charged on almost everything. This tax is not hidden and you see reference to in in every sales receipt you get. There was not a lot of grumbling about the hidden tax before but know everyone complains about the new one even though they are about equal.
I think if eBay decides to enfoce this there are ways around it like hiking your shipping fee to cover it or for the people who don't pay with PayPal having a reduction in shipping fee.
Then everyone can live in an ignorant bliss again!
Chris (not Chris97 on eBay)
[ edited by chris97 on Dec 18, 2000 01:27 PM ]
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bkmunroe
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posted on December 18, 2000 12:59:36 PM
I sell a lot of postcards and trading cards, so most of my sales are under $10. So, that 30c fee can add up.
I ask my customers to voluntarily add 30c to their PayPal payment. Reminding them that a postage stamp to mail their payment would cost more. I also let them know that whether or not they include the 30c fee, it won't affect how I handle the transaction or the feedback that they get. About 90% are paying the fee. Since it's voluntary, it's legal.
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theredcircle
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posted on December 18, 2000 12:59:40 PM
I'm trying to understand this fee thing...if you make someone pay more money to cover your fees in a transaction like this, then don't the fees go up because the transaction is for more money?
Isn't this a self-defeating proposal?
----
TRC
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on December 18, 2000 01:04:41 PM
chris97-
I have to wonder about the state of ignorant bliss some people must have in regards to them stating their local retailer does not charge them for CC use. Of course they do as it is hidden in the final price of the item.
Right on the money. The cc companies have done a terrific job of getting people to believe that there is no cost involved in using the cards. Retailers have very little incentive to enlighten buyers either, when they are able to charge their cash paying customers cc rates, and keep the difference for themselves.
What a lot of eBay buyers seem unable to comprehend is that it is not possible to include this added cost in an opening bid, unless the seller expects to get only one bid. Those working on slim margins need to work it in somewhere else. This only leaves the shipping/handling fee to work with, and there are a lot of buyers who are ready to go ballistic at any charge over and above the cost of the stamps on the package.
Based on the posts here regarding PayPal when they first opened for business, most sellers were joining up because their customers were requesting that payment option. Seems only fair, if buyers are requesting a particular service, that they pay for it.
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chris97
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posted on December 18, 2000 01:25:15 PM
I guess I would like to make one more point. Adding PP fees into your first minimum bid really doesn't make sense as you don't know how much the item will sell for in the end and you are charging people who pay with a check or money order the additional cost whic is unfair.
Not all people like submitting their CC information on the internet that and most people (according to my and several of my friends sales) prefer to use checks and money orders. Why should I penalize them with hidden fees?
I only offer PP as a service to my customers - I could care less about when I receive the money - either instantly or if I have to wait a few weeks. And then there is the problems of chargebacks which I won't even get into.
As I stated before I just charge the customer what I am charged by Paypal. No more no less. And this is clearly stated in my TOS and EOS.
Maybe some people would like to think they are not getting additional charges to items bought in retail or by some eBay purchases when using their credit card even though in the end they are with hidden shipping fees or likewise.
I like to think my customers are intelligent enough that they can make their own decision as long as everything is spelled out to them in a clear and consise manner. This is unlike the hidden fees that you are charged by Walmart or Safeway or whatever everytime you shop there. Get your head out of the sand!
Enough said.
Chris (not Chris 97 on eBay)
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ee88jade
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posted on December 18, 2000 01:28:07 PM
* * * How about "2% handling charge WAIVED if you do not use PayPal" -??
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packer
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posted on December 18, 2000 02:48:45 PM
I've been thinking about this alot.
We sellers, I feel offer this service for the convenience to the buyer. In the respect it allows them to use their CC and get their item faster. It also SAVES THEM money by not having to go out and purchase a MO and a stamp for sending.
It does benifit us to in the respect that we get our money right away with no waiting and wondering and reduces the chance of a dead beat.
So accually both buyer and seller do benifit.
So why can't PayPal set up a fair system to let us(buyers & sellers) share the fee equally.
Why should only one party of this deal have to brunt the expense?
As for me, I got along very well with checks & MO's, I don't mind having to wait a week or 2. Just before PayPal started up I did go and get me a merchant account because I felt by offering the CC option may increase my sales.
I still have it and I get a few that would rather use that then PayPal, but not really enough to justify the cost of renting their machine to use.
I say to be fair, let PayPal come up with something that the fee can be SHARED by both parties.
I feel we the seller are offing this service more for the benifit of the buyer then for us the seller
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edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ... 
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yisgood
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posted on December 18, 2000 05:25:00 PM
I was toying with putting this in my TOS:
"You can pay by credit card for free with Moneyzap. If you insist on paying with Paypal and using a credit card because it is convenient for you, then you should expect to pay the fees. But since someone is sure to whine to ebay, I wont charge the fees. Instead there is a 2.2% handling fee which I will not charge if you pay with something other than paypal. Are the whiners happy now?"
How long will fools believe there is a free lunch? Since stores cant charge for credit cards, they add this fee for EVERYONE. People, wake up and realize that ALL seller's costs have to be paid by the customers one way or the other. It is a lot fairer to charge folks for what they actually use than to make everyone pay for it. How many complaints have we seen about unfair shipping charges? But a lot of sellers, rather than charge exact cost, figure out the maximum cost across the US and charge all their customers an average. Those who live closer are subsidizing those who live farther. I dont think that's fair either.
So stop whining. If you don't like the terms, then don't bid. Of course this doesnt apply to a seller who hits you with this after the fact.
Incidentally, I have made it easier. I only accept non credit card payments through PP to my verified personal account.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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TammiAndy
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posted on December 18, 2000 05:31:04 PM
gosh....I have been told a lot of things, but NEVER that I am living in ignorant bliss.... that is a little harsh!
A gentle (maybe a little kinder wording) reminder would have kicked in the reality factor. I was looking for opinions on paypal fees and not opinions on my intelligence!
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paulswife
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posted on December 18, 2000 05:31:38 PM
this whole post has gotten off the mark. eBay says it is against their Safe Harbor Charter for sellers to charge the price back to the customer. it doesn't matter if OTHER retailers do it. it is against eBay's policy. clear and simple.
if a person is really interested in getting the fees back, then he or she can adjust up the opening bid by that amount. this was even suggested by eBay employees at one of the eBay university gatherings.
my .02 worth
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joice
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posted on December 18, 2000 05:44:27 PM
Hello Everyone,
Just a reminder to address the subject and not other posters as outlined in the CG's.
Joice
Moderator.
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TammiAndy
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posted on December 18, 2000 05:49:24 PM
Thank you Joice 
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chasd7
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posted on December 18, 2000 06:44:41 PM
Enough already, we have talked this thing to death.
PP fees are a realty.
The legalities are clear.
Feebay's rules are nebulous at best.
Protect yourself add 2.2% to each sale as a
handling fee. Then forget the whole thing.
Some of you folks seem to get in a swivet
just for the pure pleasure of it.
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vargas
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posted on December 18, 2000 06:59:06 PM
if a person is really interested in getting the fees back, then he or she can adjust up the opening bid by that amount. this was even suggested by eBay employees at one of the eBay university gatherings.
I see that eBay employees don't get it either. Perhaps we should highlight the relevant posts explaining why this doesn't work and enlighten the worker bees at eBay.
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