posted on December 20, 2000 03:27:45 AM
I leave feedback when feedback is left for me. Never before.
I used to leave feedbacks for all transactions right away and noticed I was not getting it back. So now if you do not leave me a feedback, you do not get one from me neither.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:07:58 PM
As a seller, I post FB as soon as I receive payment. I expect that as a buyer, the seller leave FB when my timely payment is received. In fact, if a seller has not left FB by the time I receive an item or they insist that I leave positive feedback first then they are S.O.L. I will not leave any FB at all.
I detest those sellers who send emails reminding me to leave feedback for them.
bleeeehh!
peace
posted on December 20, 2000 02:26:06 PM
Cix, I really do admire your honesty.
I don't understand why it is perfectly acceptable for a buyer to say, "I got the item, I'm satisfied, please leave feedback for me" but for a seller, asking for feedback first is taboo. Is it because of the convention that sellers leave feedback when payment is received? Or am I overlooking something obvious?
I use Vrane's automatic feedback tool. I can leave 200 feedbacks at once. However, it only pulls up those auctions where the other party has already left positive feedback. Yes, it's a downside, but it saves hours of work each week. I really don't see why so many people get upset about it.
Is this a matter of trust? Do customers think they are giving up a trump card by leaving feedback first? Look, I accepted your personal check and shipped the item before it even cleared. You got the item fast, and can see it was just as I described it in the ad. Why at this late point in the game, why when you've got the goods as described, do you anticipate that I am withholding your feedback for some devious purpose?
I disagree with the idea that feedback should be left as an appeasement to the customer, or that the rating itself (the score) has much significance. Feedback is an overall indicator. My own rating is approaching 3500 and I have asked for feedback maybe twice. I think the real significance is in the ratio of positive to negative.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:56:55 PM
I have always left feeback as I post payments in ebud---it's more time efficient and it an offsite "backup" for me in terms of confirming when payment was made in case of posting errors. I have occasionally held off leaving feedback in transactions where there have been problems. Perhaps six times out of more than 1600 transactions. Of sixteen hundred transactions I have 1487 positive feedbacks and one neg from a guy who paid late kept the book for a month then decided it has some shipping damage so he wanted to return in. <p>As a buyer I"ve had fewer than a dozen transactions. I would not leave feedback for a seller who didn't leave feedback first. Three sellers actaully were a bit beligerant in requesting that I post feedback for them. I very politely explained to them that I had no need to "ransome" my feedback from them and that given my numbers as a seller one feedback from them would neither make nor break me. Two left feedback and it was reciprocated, the third sent another "request for feedback" and was duly ignored.<p>Each person must do what is best for their business, but you should also consider that tactics perceived by your customers as "feedback extortion" could potentially be costing you many repeat transactions. Not quite 12% of my ebay business comes from repeat customers. Customer service pays, making customers jump through too many hoops pays your competitors!
posted on December 20, 2000 02:58:59 PM
As a seller, I leave feedbacks when my buyer has fulfilled their obligation - by sending a timely payment. I usually inform my buyers that feedbacks will be left upon shipment.
As a buyer, I leave feedbacks when the item is received, and inspected to my expectation/satisfaction.
It doesn't matter who leaves feedbacks when on the norm. Recently, I have run across sellers who do not leave me a feedback for speedy payments regardless if I left them one. Sometimes I wonder if they just forget.
A feedback is to inform the Ebay community what kind of buyer or seller this person is. I don't see why feedbacks are so held back. Therefore, personally, I don't believe in feedback hostages either.
avmom
edited just because I forgot something
[ edited by avmom on Dec 20, 2000 03:00 PM ]
posted on December 20, 2000 03:00:11 PM
As a seller, I post feedback after it has been posted for me. Before transactional-only feedback, I would always post a nontransactional positive when payment was received. If there were problems later, I could then post a transactional negative. Since Ebay has now seen fit to give us only one bite at the apple, I have to protect myself. If you want to call this "holding feedback hostage", that's great. I would prefer that I hold a positive feedback comment hostage over an unreasonable customer holding ME hostage with the threat of a negative.
Also, I have found that it is relatively quick and easy to post feedback for those that have already posted to my account. I just sign in, put the comment in the clipboard, and go down my feedback profile posting feedback for each entry. If a buyer takes the time to post for each and every transaction, I also do the same.
posted on December 20, 2000 03:54:28 PM
As a seller I post feedback as soon as the payment clears. As a buyer I post feedback after I've determined that the item is satisfactory and meets the auction description. So far I have not had any problems with my buyers. I receive feedback from about 85 to 90 percent of my buyers and sellers.
About a month or two ago I bought two items for about $300. I paid promptly by money order and requested notification of the shipment date so I could arrange for someone to be there for delivery. The seller ignored my request. I let it slide and left positive feedback anyway. To this date she has not left any feedback for me. Several weeks ago I noticed she was selling a book that I really wanted. I would have paid up to $50 for it. But, since she neglected feedback I did not bid. I noticed that she sold the book for about $5.00.
posted on December 20, 2000 04:02:40 PM
DWest, do you really think feedback is worth $45 a pop? If this happened to me, the moral would be "swallow your pride." If I could pay $5 for a $50 item I wanted, return feedback would not be an issue.
posted on December 20, 2000 04:13:13 PM
twinsoft,
There is hardly anything on ebay or anywhere else that cannot be obtained from another source. All I have to do is wait and take my business to a courteous customer oriented seller. I don't need to pay top dollar for rudeness and abuse. As a seller I treat my customers very well. As a buyer I also expect to be treated well.
posted on December 20, 2000 04:26:10 PM
Hi, DWest. Sorry if my answer seemed flip. I do understand your position. I don't think a seller who declines to notify you when an item ships is being rude or abusive.
As both a buyer and seller, my expectations are simple. Product as described, timely paayment. I don't expect or demand feedback, or special treatment. I sell low cost, high volume items, and customer hand-holding just doesn't fit into the equation.
Once in the past year I had to email a seller about "where's the product?" His reply was, "I told you it would be coming by UPS ground, and that it would take 10 days." He was right, and I was bugging him for nothing.
Perhaps it's the time of year, but I'm noticing all those special requests right about now. In particular, a guy who won an auction on 12/20 and wants the item by Christmas. It would have to arrive by 12/23 for that to happen. This is the kind of customer who will pester me for feedback, and then not leave any.
posted on December 21, 2000 01:49:58 PM
twinsoft,
I would not consider it rude if the seller had declined my request. I do, however, consider it rude when the seller does not send me an email telling me that they have declined my request.
I understand your position because you are a high volume seller. This seller is not. She averages about 10 to 15 auctions every 10 days. As I see it there is no compelling reason to be a repeat customer because her product is OK, but her customer service is mediocre.
posted on December 21, 2000 02:07:17 PM"I expect that as a buyer, the seller leave FB when my timely payment is received. In fact, if a seller has not left FB by the time I receive an item or they insist that I leave positive feedback first then they are S.O.L. I will not leave any FB at all.
Isn't this the buyer's version of hostage feedback? "You're not getting any feedback, regardless of how good your customer service is, because you didn't leave feedback at the point in the transaction that I specified." cmbtboots, do you tell your sellers this up front? I, for one, would never get feedback from you because I don't leave feedback until the buyer notifies me of receipt, or until well after USPS shows delivery. I certainly wouldn't deviate from that policy just because a bidder told me that I wouldn't get feedback unless I left it before he received the item. However, it would make me wonder what he had planned after the item got there.
posted on December 21, 2000 02:13:13 PM
I leave feedback when I get it. Not before. Its not that important to get feedback anymore (to me, anyway). Once, I was all gung ho about it. Now, I dont really care if they leave it or not. This might seem crass, but its how I feel.
posted on December 21, 2000 02:34:53 PM
My buying and selling are about equal. Up until November, I managed to leave and get feedback for nearly every transaction. In November I did a bulk listing with 50+ items. Taking the cue of some sellers here on the boards, I started giving the buyers feedback when payment was received and cleared. Of those 50+ sales, I've only received about 20 feedbacks, hence my success at getting feedback was lowered significantly. This despite good e-mails, meeting clients payment and shipping needs, and shipping within two days of payment clearing.
I agree with Twinsoft--the deal's not done until the customer is satisfied and has indicated this, either by feedback or by e-mail. Either way I won't keep feedback from a buyer. But this attitude is certainly not a given among sellers.
posted on December 21, 2000 04:50:59 PM
Pickersangel,
Short answer - Maybe.
If the seller had already left feedback for me then I leave it for them as well and consider that their notification that the item was received and everything is fine.
If they had not left feedback then I do dash them off a quick note to let them know that it was received and all is well.
posted on December 21, 2000 05:16:15 PM
DWest, sorry to keep pestering you about this, but it seems your response begs a question.
If the seller sends you an email stating, "in response to your request, no I will not send you a notice when I ship the item" then wouldn't you claim, "if you have time to respond to my email, surely you have time to notify me of shipment."
If I'm shipping an expensive item, I'll nearly ALWAYS stay in touch with the customer. But if it's a $10 item, no way am I going to bother with special notices. When customers ask so they'll "know when to expect it" I don't see the point or need for that at all.
And I'm not going to take the time to explain to the customer why I don't have time to send the email in the first place.
This week I got a complaint from a customer. A total of eight emails back and forth for a $15 item. Lots of before the sale questions. Then she screwed up the Yahoo payment. Then she made payment but forgot to include her shipping address. It took her three weeks to get her payment to me online. After the item arrived she left a complaint that I sat on her package for two weeks. It was four days from receipt of her shipping address.
Some customers just won't be satisfied no matter how much you nurse the deal. And while I'm here, I'll add, if you want Macy's service, shop at Macy's. Don't complain because an online flea marketer doesn't treat you like Queen Elizabeth.
posted on December 21, 2000 06:43:30 PM
Twin..Twin
You are supposed to be a mind reader and KNOW her mailing address. No wonder she gave you a negative...you have lousy customer service. The seller is NOT supposed to ask for things like mailing addresses or item numbers or a description of the item..we are just supposed to KNOW! So why did you even ask her.
SHEEZ..and to think, I always looked up to you as an example of wonderful customer service
I love your comment about my seller being an online flea marketer. I had not thought of her that way, but the description fits!
I find it interesting that you seem irritated because I won't continue doing business with a seller that gives poor to mediocre customer service. You suggest that if I don't like the service, don't complain -- go elsewhere. Well, it seems to me that we agree. I did not complain to her about ignoring my email request, plus, I left her positive feedback concerning the quality of her product. The seller is the one that ignored my email request and neglected to leave feedback. As a consequence, I will never bid on another one of her auctions.
Also, there are better ways to decline a request for notification of shipment. For example, the seller could have responded as follows:
As much as I'd like to comply with your request, it's impossible for me to do so at this time. I assure you that I will ship the XXXX within 24 hours of receipt of payment (or the first Saturday after receipt of payment). I value your business and I hope that my inability to comply with your request does not cause you too much trouble.
Regards,
XXXXXXXX
A seller should know how to provide good customer service, but if certain things are impossible, then the seller should know how to "put on the velvet gloves". I have never been in an email war with a customer. OTOH I have never sent a customer an abrupt response either.
posted on December 21, 2000 08:02:03 PM
Because I don't feel the transaction is complete until the buyer is satisfied, I don't leave feedback until I hear from the buyer they've received the item. Then I promptly leave feedback.
If I don't hear from them, I wait a few days until after I think the item has arrived & send a "customer service follow up" message asking if it's there safely.
If they still don't respond, I wait a few more days & then leave feedback.
ALL my customers get feedback, even those that probably wish they hadn't gotten any.
If they leave feedback for me, great. If not, that's okay too.
Thank's to AA, I do keep my buyers informed all along the way, from an EM the day the item is shipped (which is usually w/in 0-24 hours of receipt of payment), right on through to customer service follow ups. Takes a few minutes to run through my customer lists each day & see what emails need to be sent.
I find keeping in touch w/the buyers is a key to making them feel like a valued customer. I run 100-200 auctions a week & w/the help of a good automated package (like AA) & an organized filing system, it doesn't take much time to keep the customer informed along the way.
It looks like I'm the type of seller that causes others nightmares.
1. I notify my buyers when I receive payment and the date I actually ship.
2. I post feedback when the payment clears.
3. I ship the day after receipt of payment.
4. I refund if the item does not meet their needs or expectations (so far one refund).
5. I file insurance claims with U-PIC for items damaged in shipment (so far, two separate claims).
6. For each transaction I ask my customers to notify me of any problems with the shipment. First by email, along with the shipment notification. The second time in a note that is included with the shipment.
7. I keep track of my customers' ebay IDs and their real names. My EOA notices include the customers real names if I've done business with them before.
I can afford to do all of these things because I am a low volume seller. I believe, however, that good customer service can only help me get repeat business. Also, as stated earlier, 85 to 90 percent of my sellers and customers have left positive feedback. So far I haven't had any negative feedbacks in spite of the fact that I've left a few negatives for non-paying bidders.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:31:56 PM
I don't think the seller is necessarily 'holding the FB hostage' if they don't post upon receipt of payment. I would think some sellers might feel the need to hold off until they know the buyer is satisfied and won't be doing anything unexpected like claiming the item wasn't received or posting a neg without giving the seller a chance to remedy the situation. I am mostly a seller and have the confidence in my product to leave feedback when payment is received. I have found though, if I hold off a little (sometimes I just get a little behind in these things), posting a positive comment after the buyer has surely received the product might 'remind' them to also post feedback. Anyways, I post when I can, never miss one, and don't worry at all whether or not I receive a feedback in return.
