posted on February 4, 2007 03:10:31 PM new
If you remember AIDS started during the term of Ronald Reagan. In the early stages of the disease, what did Reagan do - NOTHING.
Perhaps if he took a more active approach more people could have learned about the dangers of this disease.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 4, 2007 03:12:05 PM newBottom line, each person is responsible for his/her own sex life. Teaching awareness is the key to prevention for all kinds of problems and solely teaching abstinence or trying to force everyone into it just because you may choose that path in life does not work for everyone else.
I couldn't have said it any better Kiara. each person is responsible for their own actions. If people want to engage in unsafe sex practices whether it be with one partner or multiple partners they have to be responsible for their actions.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 4, 2007 03:21:21 PM new
linduh, ""All topics remind you of other things - as that's why you bring up anything but the topic being discussed. ""
As YOU have done many times
"""And that our society ALL pays one way or another for THEIR actions."""
Yup, you're finally right about something...now apply it to the rest of the issues facing this country !!!!!
"""Those like you who hide their heads in the sand and PRETEND what others do doesn't affect our society aren't living in REALITY.""""
posted on February 4, 2007 03:56:54 PM new
LOL logansdad....I'll repeat the FACTS AGAIN....
In the early 1980's when we didn't know what this new disease was called......it WAS the gays, in the GAY community that were spreading it like WILDFIRE.
I hope that put it in a manner you can grasp. Because AT THAT TIME it was ONLY gay men who were being diagnosed with this strange new disease, we knew nothing about....EXCEPT that it was being passed around IN the GAY communities and AMONG GAYS.
Now....IF you think you can prove that NOT to be a FACT then go for it. I lived near SF during those years....I KNOW what was going on there. And I've read the exact same thing, AT THAT TIME, was also going on in NY were ONLY gay men were being diagnosed with this 'new disease'.
I KNOW some were calling for the SF gays who WERE infected to be quarantined.....but the liberals/civil rights groups throught that was the WORST thing we could do.
So...we didn't. And look where America is NOW....thanks to NOTHING being done to control it BEFORE they could even find out WHAT was causing it.
The ONLY common denominator was it WAS affecting GAYS.
posted on February 4, 2007 04:05:41 PM new
And I'll bet that all of you who support this....all that's needed is education....LOL....would ALSO support what the doctors who treat gay patients are now saying???
That they're NOT using protection....they're NOT having safe sex.
Just like with everything....25 years of educating them on how one contacts hiv/aids STILL isn't working....still isn't keeping them from having unlimited sexual partners, ANONYMOUS at that, and spreading the disease even MORE.
What part can't you grasp that they DON'T CARE if they 'get it' nor if they 'pass it to others'.
Now...because of not quarantining them when hiv/aids FIRST was discovered....women/children/ALL of society has been FORCED to restrict and change THEIR LIVES - have been put at risk of getting their diseases - all because some jerks didn't want to take personal responsibility for their own behaviors.
But the liberals think taxpayers should be forced to pay for THEIR CHOICES????
I don't.
And now...we have another deadly strain....and the liberals don't mind IF these same irresponsible gays pass it along in our society either.
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU.
Let's continue forcing the taxpayers to PAY for their immoral behaviors/lifestyle choice.
posted on February 4, 2007 04:36:55 PM newWe're talking here about ..........
Lindak, who is the WE you refer to all the time? I prefer to remain an individual who expresses her own opinions without joining the 'WE group'.
More tax dollars should be spent on teaching awareness and I agree with Logansdad that quarantine is not a solution.
You're preaching to the wrong choir here or could it be that you live in fear because you are unable to take responsibility for your own sex life and actions ...... perhaps you've never received intelligent information about safe sex? There is lots of information online and it's never to late to learn.
All topics remind you of other things
Of course they do.
Did you know that a healthy sex life with a loving partner contributes to an active mind? And that's just one good reason for not choosing abstinence, do you wish to hear more?
posted on February 4, 2007 04:38:10 PM new
"""Let's continue forcing the taxpayers to PAY for their immoral behaviors/lifestyle choice""
Yup, they do. Taxpayers get AIDS. And we have taxpayers pay for taxpaying smokers and taxpaying people who don't wear helmets or use their seatbelts ...there are taxpaying drunk drivers who taxpayers pay for,
and there are anti-American tax cheats who honest taxpayers pay for such as off-shore companies who pay no taxes...
it's an AMERICAN thing...taking care of each other.
Ignoring those less smart or less fortunate and leaving them fend for themselves weakens any country.
posted on February 4, 2007 05:11:38 PM newLet's continue forcing the taxpayers to PAY for their immoral behaviors/lifestyle choice
Let's see, we have people that smoke and get lung cancer. Should we start start isolating these people because they are a threat non-smokers.
We have people that spread other non-curable STD's. Should we lock up all these people?
Where do we stop?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 4, 2007 05:14:57 PM newIn the early 1980's when we didn't know what this new disease was called......it WAS the gays, in the GAY community that were spreading it like WILDFIRE.
I hope that put it in a manner you can grasp. Because AT THAT TIME it was ONLY gay men who were being diagnosed with this strange new disease, we knew nothing about....EXCEPT that it was being passed around IN the GAY communities and AMONG GAYS.
Do you even read what is written, Linda? I do not believe you do because if you would have read and understood what is written you would have seen this part of my post:
It is nice that you have cleared up your so called FACTS.
You originally said: And since 1981 GAYS have been the largest group of people spreading this terrible disease that has NOW been the biggest cause of spreading this life threatening disease to everyone in America, canada, and around the world.
There is a difference between what you first said and then your restatement.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
[ edited by logansdad on Feb 4, 2007 05:20 PM ]
posted on February 4, 2007 05:16:02 PM new
Then you might try that yourself, kiara. Your mind could certainly use a TON of help.
Heaven only knows what your 'rock star' brings back home to you.
=============
And to sybil....I'm talking about doing something NOW BEFORE this new stain takes off in the GAY community just like the one in the '80's did.
NOT what happened because of their irresponsibly lifestyle choices.
And I can tell that pointing out that the gays sexual behaviors was the cause of the first cases of hiv/aids in the US.....still doesn't make you aware that what others DO, does't just affect THEM....but in this case ALL of our society.
Too bad that's such a strain on your brains you won't EVER 'get it'.
posted on February 4, 2007 05:19:25 PM new
LOL logansdad....
I didn't have to 'clear up' anything. I stand by everything I've posted.
I believe you have some problem....but it's YOURS ...not mine.
I know the facts. I know why they demanded that the gay bathhouses be SHUT DOWN. And it wasn't because heterosexuals were passing this deadly virus around either.
posted on February 4, 2007 05:23:46 PM newAnd it wasn't because heterosexuals were passing this deadly virus around either.
But they are now and you can't deny those FACTS Linda. AS MUCH AS YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS THE GAY DISEASE. IT IS NO LONGER THAT.
I hope one day the government decides to isolate you in quarantine. You'd be the first one complaining how your rights are being violated and you deserve better treatment.
You think you are entitled to a lot more than you get. This country does not revolve around you and your opinions
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 4, 2007 05:30:43 PM new
Here are some more facts for you to swallow:
Women account for a growing proportion of new AIDS diagnoses,rising from 8% in 1985 to 27% in 2004.2,13 Based on the CDC’s
prevalence estimate from 2003,3 close to 300,000 women were living with HIV/AIDS at that time.
• Women of color are particularly affected. African American women account for 67% of estimated new AIDS diagnoses among women in 2004; Latinas account for 15%.2
• Young adults and teens, under the age of 25, continue to be at risk. Most young people are infected through sex.
* Despite declines in HIV infection rates among men who have sex with men (MSM) since the early years of the epidemic, they continue to be at high risk for infection
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 4, 2007 05:37:58 PM new
I worked in an HIV practice in New York City for 20 years and Linda, most of what you say is malarky. We saw HIV patients before anyone knew what this disease was. My boss became a world-famous HIV expert. New cases came in by the dozens and these patients did not last more than a year and suffered horribly during that year. I shed many tears and held many hands during that time. I comforted people who had families who thought like you do and broke their hearts. Slowly we learned how HIV was transmitted--through blood exchange-- sexually, IV drugs via sharing needles and transfusions mainly. With this knowledge, along with new tests and drugs, we finally saw an ebb in new cases. The majority of the gay community became activist in educating everyone (not just gays) about safe sex. HIV became a chronic disease, like diabetes. Unfortunately, the next generation became somewhat complacent since they did not live through the initial epidemic and they are not putting importance on having safe sex. This has caused somewhat of a resurgence in new cases. I am talking about the US only. In Africa, certain countries are decimated by this disease, mainly due to lack of education and inability to procure HIV meds.
If you had the remotist idea of what HIV is, you would not be recommending anything as foolish as quarantine. First, it is only transmitted through the blood--not through the air, not via a sneeze or cough or touching. Secondly, this would be impossible as you can be exposed to HIV and not seroconvert to positive for months. There is no way to know for sure who has the virus before they convert.
How would you suggest this quarantine work? Who would need to be quarantined? All gays? What about people infected in other ways? All IV drug users? All doctors and nurses who had a needle stick? Should they be quarantined for the rest of their lives, just in case? Where would you put all these people? Utterly ridiculous!
[ edited by coincoach on Feb 4, 2007 05:39 PM ]
posted on February 4, 2007 05:39:35 PM new
LOL logansdad.
I know the facts. You continue to DEFLECT the issue...and continue going off on all other related issues.
I'll go real slow just for you.
There is a NEW strain of hiv that GAY MEN have been diagnosed with. The medicines we have now AREN'T going to do much good.
IF these gay men aren't quarantined or kept from spreading this virus....then exactly what happened in the '80's is going to happen again.
MORE illness...spreading rapidly thoughout our nation....more INCURABLE disease, people suffering, dying.
It appears that doesn't matter to you.
There is a chance, RIGHT now to do something about it. TAKE ACTION. LEARN from our past MISTAKES. Don't just let these gay men continue on with their anonymous sexual partners....who will do the same with other gay men....and soon we'll be in the SAME position we now find our SOCIETY. People lives have been ALTERED because of the selfish actions of a few.
And now, you're trying to replay the entire history of hiv/aids???? LOL LOL LOL
Admit....gays spread the virus like WILDFIRE...and THEN it spread to others. Now EVERYONE is at risk.
posted on February 4, 2007 05:58:25 PM new
I can see you are having your usual selective reading problem. How do you propose a quarantine? You first have to identify a person as HIV+ and they can be infectious for a long time before converting.
I never denied where this disease started. You act as though gays ravaged American by wildly and intentionally infecting anyone with whom they came in contact. Once the gay community learned how this diseae was spread they responsibly educated themselves and society. If you don't know how it starts, you cannot stop it.
posted on February 4, 2007 06:07:04 PM new
coincoach. So are you saying that quarantining 4-5 gay men is going to create some sort of hardship to carry out?
IF so, I don't agree. We used to quarantine TB patients...those with this new strain could easily be dealt with in the same fashion.
And on selective reading....and sounding like....
yep, in 1983 71% of the people coming down with hiv/aids was men who had sex with men.
posted on February 4, 2007 06:18:23 PM new
logansdad -
"i]Let's see, we have people that smoke and get lung cancer. Should we start start isolating these people because they are a threat non-smokers[/i]."
Are you blind? What do you see going on in our society...are you MISSING all these LAWS being passed?
"We have people that spread other non-curable STD's. Should we lock up all these people?"
No need to ...their diseases are CURABLE.....a lot of hiv/aids people DIED...and even now they're ONLY alive at great cost to the American taxpayers. And you wonder why our ins. premiums have gone up???? They're a HUGE part of that expense.
"Where do we stop?"
By making those who want to 'do whatever they want' take responsibility for THEMSELVES...their own actions/behavior. You want to play....then YOU pay the consequences....not the taxpayers.
I for one resent paying for anyone who is not using the protection...sleeping with multiple sex partners...and then expecting us to pay the tab.
And that goes for our gov. using our tax dollars to pay for hiv/aids patients all over the world.
They've had 25 YEARS of education...and they're STILL not using protection.....still not being responsible.
===============
And coincoach....since you have stated something YOU feel the gay community, as a whole, has done....CHANGED...then why are doctors see more and more gays NOT using protection...STILL practicing VERY risky behavior.
ANd why are THEY still at the top of the list, after 25 years, for those CONTACTING hiv/aids????
posted on February 4, 2007 06:38:53 PM new
Drooling, drooling,drooling down the homophobe river......
"""No need to ...their diseases are CURABLE"""
YA NEVER HEARD OF HERPES YA DUMB CLUCK ????
""".....a lot of hiv/aids people DIED...and even now they're ONLY alive at great cost to the American taxpayers. And you wonder why our ins. premiums have gone up???? They're a HUGE part of that expense."""
PROVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!
YUP SICK people RAISE our premiums ???? Well sheesh , pardon all the sick people who use doctors!!! BUT that's NOT true so .....let's look at the wages and benefits of insurance executives ......
posted on February 4, 2007 06:54:08 PM new
sybil is correct....I forgot about herpes.
But I don't think most rational people would put herpes on the same 'scale' as contacting hiv/aids.
That I'm aware of no one diagnosed with herpes has died. And certainly not in the HUGE numbers of people who have from contacting hiv/aids.
And God only knows how many these 4-5 gay men with this new strain of hiv/aids have ALREADY been infected and are out there just passing this strain along to all they have sex with.
posted on February 4, 2007 06:56:25 PM new
Coincoach, thanks for your contributions on the AIDS topic. Not only are you well informed, you also sound very caring.
posted on February 4, 2007 06:57:04 PM new
Linda, I addressed that in my first post (an increase in new HIV cases)but perhaps you missed it. For the most part, the gay community has made a tremendous effort to educate and promote safe sex. That's why we have so many cases of STD's, unwanted pregnancies, hepatitis C, food contamination; however,there will always be irresponsible people. Education is the most effective way to reduce these dangers.
Regarding quarantine, TB is spread through coughing, sneezing and touching--airborne. It is not terribly contagioius, except in those who's immunity is compromised. Even at that, it is more easily spread than HIV. TB patients were quarantined in the very distant past, but have not been for a very long time. They are started on meds immediately which soon renders them non-contagious.
I will repeat that it is ridiculous and impossible to quarantine people who have HIV, the majority of whom live very responsible lives. Are you saying that these 4 patients in Seattle should be locked up til.....?? What about all the partners they had? What about all those infected who have not yet converted?
posted on February 4, 2007 07:02:06 PM new
Oh right. We ALL know how monogamous 'rock stars' are. LOL LOL LOL
I said what I did because once again you continue to refer to my life when you know nothing about it.
You're in a relationship where your partner won't even commit to you. lol And you accept that, your choice.
But I had a committed long term marriage a committment that was VERY important to both of us. So play you're sick little games....that's what you do best.
posted on February 4, 2007 07:07:38 PM new
Thanks, Kiara. In my 20 years working with HIV patients, I saw so much. In the beginning, it was absolute hell watching young, vibrant people waste away and die in their prime. I must say, there were wonderful times too--watching my patients improve day by day on the new meds (which are now routine.) I loved giving the news that their T-cells went way up and their viral load went way down (a good sign!) A lot of my patients have survived over 20 years, including my boss, and are able to enjoy life.
Don't mean to get on a soapbox, but it sure burns my azz when people who don't know what they are talking about pontificate as though they do--especially on this subject.
posted on February 4, 2007 07:20:36 PM new
coincoach. You reject quarantine...but I disagree. It is NOT impossible to do. And as their sexual partners also show positive..then they too would be sent to a quarantine facility.
We also disagree on TB being contagious. lol In our infectious disease clinic our doctors took it VERY seriously...and most who had a positive reading were put on medication that we didn't have back in those days.
Just as we don't have NOW for this new strain.
And yes, it's extremely sad that so many STILL are so irresponsible. Not like it used to be when someone came down with an STD...by contacting their sexual partners they could be warned/offered treatment.
Can't do that in this now 'accepted' line of behavior....because THEY don't even know WHO they had sex with. Pretty pathetic AND negative change in our societial values, imo.
posted on February 4, 2007 07:28:28 PM newYou're in a relationship where your partner won't even commit to you. lol And you accept that, your choice.
Linda_K, since I've never discussed my relationship here and you know nothing about my personal life it's amusing how much you've wrongly assumed about me while you rapidly try to explain what a committed relationship you supposedly had.
If my comments hit such a raw nerve just remember that you brought it up and started the sick little game. Two can play but once again you play the victim with the sad blue face.
posted on February 4, 2007 07:36:28 PM new
Linda, I did not say TB was not contagious. However, it is not contagious as, say the flu or a cold. I did not say it should not be taken seriously, just that it is transmitted in a different way from HIV. By the way, there are resistant strains of TB too, mostly due to improperly taking the medications. There are also routine infections such as strep and staph, which are resistant due to overuse of antibiotics. This is nothing new.
You say that as their sexual partners become positive they can be quarantined too? It can take many months to show positive (seroconvert.) What then? Throw everyone into quarantine, until they convert or not? Not viable either medically or morally. Your homophobia is showing.
