posted on February 9, 2007 10:34:40 PM new
Lindak, just because you omit things all the time when you post articles don't assume that everyone else is just as low and sneaky as you are.
Here is the link to the story I read and posted earlier.
By MICHAEL R. BLOOD, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES - Even on Skid Row, it was shocking: a paraplegic man in a soiled gown sliding along the sidewalk with his hands, clutching a plastic bag with his belongings between his teeth.
Police said the man, who was dragging a broken colostomy bag behind him, was dumped on the sidewalk Thursday in one of the worst parts of the city by the driver of a hospital van. The area is the same location where city officials say hospitals have dumped the homeless before.
Witnesses, all homeless people, began shouting, "Where is his wheelchair? Where is his walker?" Detective Russ Long said Friday. They told officers the driver responded that the man defecated in the van and had to be removed.
"If there is an explanation it just eludes me at this point," Long said.
"He was sliding along on his bottom using his hands. He had a hospital property bag in his mouth, in his teeth, and he was trailing a colostomy bag, which was malfunctioning."
Witnesses told police a van from Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center pulled up to a tiny park in the grimy area near downtown at 10:45 a.m. Thursday, a side door opened and a man, dressed in a green hospital gown and pants, began struggling to get out. The driver looked on.
"His pants fell around his ankles. He fell onto the curb with his legs dangling onto the street," Long said. "He reached down and grabbed his pants, pulled his legs onto the sidewalk. Witnesses said the van would have run over his legs if he hadn't have done that."
Homeless people in the area helped the disoriented man into the park. A police bicycle patrol arrived by chance within a minute and called an ambulance.
The 41-year-old man's name was not released, but he was wearing a bracelet from the hospital, Long said.
Dan Springer, a spokesman for the medical center, said an internal investigation was under way and pledged cooperation with any outside investigation.
"These are very serious allegations. Our goal is to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. If we determine a mistake of this magnitude was made, we will respond swiftly and appropriately," Springer said.
Springer said the man was released on Wednesday night. He asked to be taken to a Skid Row mission and was transported by a company contracted by Hollywood Presbyterian, Springer said. The mission had no vacancies and the man was taken back to the hospital, where he spent the night in the lobby of the emergency room.
The next day, he asked to return to Skid Row and "instructed the driver to open the door and let him out at a local park in the vicinity of Midnight Mission," Springer said.
"He assured the driver the mission was his home and could propel himself home from the park," Springer said. "The driver opened the door, he propelled and waved the driver away, and the driver left the area."
The man was ultimately taken to another hospital. Police did not disclose his condition.
The case comes three months after the city attorney's office filed its first indictment alleging homeless dumping, against Kaiser Permanente Hospital. In that case, a 63-year-old patient from the hospital's Bellflower medical center was videotaped wandering the streets of Skid Row in a hospital gown and socks.
Kaiser has said it has taken steps to see that no more of its patients are left on Skid Row.
City officials have accused more than a dozen hospitals of dumping patients and criminals on Skid Row. Hospital officials have denied the allegations, but some said they had taken homeless patients to Skid Row service providers.
In 2005, Hollywood Presbyterian was accused of homeless dumping. At the time, a top executive denied the charge, but said Skid Row service providers offered treatment and care for some patients who had nowhere else to go.
A recent crackdown on crime around Skid Row has resulted in a migration of homeless people out of downtown, significantly reducing the area's transient population but also putting a strain on homeless service providers elsewhere.
Last month, 875 people were living on the streets surrounding Skid Row, according to a Police Department count. That compares to 1,345 people at about the same time last year.
The homeless issue in Canada is on the nightly news. I am aware of it as most others are. Most are treated and cared for in hospitals when they need help. So far I haven't heard of them being 'dumped' on the street in hospital gowns and I hope it never happens in Canada or anywhere else for that matter.
He wasn't DUMPED....he said he WANTED to be taken there...and he was.
And again, you obviously aren't aware that on skid row the reason most homeless stay in that area is because THEY CAN GET HELP from those there to help them. They certainly AREN'T going to set up places to help them in Beverly Hills.
==============
And while all you BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS think this is just so terrible....you don't have a CLUE as to this mans background - his capabilities - you're ASSUMING much about him.
In the link above...there's a paraplegic whose been arrested THREE times for ROBBERY.
So....they're not all so helpless.
And the homeless are the BIGGEST problem the areas around skid row are having so much crime. Poor babies....stealing, robbing, won't accept help that's out there for them.
posted on February 9, 2007 11:16:02 PM new
You're just so great at LYING.
"Lindak, just because you omit things all the time when you post articles don't assume that everyone else is just as low and sneaky as you are."
I have NEVER omitted things from articles I post without showing a <snip> notice. And I always reference where I got my post from....or provide a link. Like was the EXPECTED thing to do around here not that long ago.
And I have caught mingo/crow posting only parts of articles.....without any link...without any references....and when I pull up the article myself....YEP...much has been left out.
Just as in your case...we didn't HAVE the info. that the patient CHOSE to be taken there.
And that changes the picture QUITE A BIT.
Also....before you continue with your paranoia....check out ALL that I said about you not providing a link....I didn't ONLY mention that.
But, of course, being the SNEAK and LIAR that you are....you only read what you want to read...and ignore the rest of what I said.
"And kiara either didn't post ALL of the article....or her article didn't mention this:
[i]De la Cruz [police officer who arrived at the scene] later asked the victim if he had wanted to be dropped off at the location[/b].
Wouldn't be the first time I've proven what a liar you are.
posted on February 9, 2007 11:39:20 PM new
No matter what you think I did paste the articles exactly as they were posted on the website and my links prove it because the stories match so I did not lie. Sorry it gets you so angry when proof is shown.
I don't care what the man did in his life, it's still cruel to treat him like that. Or do you think because he had criminal problems he deserves this kind of treatment? If so, that's kinda sick.
Some places in Canada are cold in the winter months but some places in the US can be even colder and have more snow. Most years I'd rather be in the Vancouver or Victoria area of B.C. during the winter months than in many colder regions of the US because it's usually quite mild on the west coast with very little snow to worry about. That's why so many homeless people in Canada are in Vancouver and Victoria and also why the homeless in the U.S. choose California.
posted on February 10, 2007 05:21:25 AM new
Linda, The post quoted a detective who said the fellow was dropped off in the worst part of skid row nowhere near a mission. This was posted twice now, but you chose to ignore that. The only relevant fact is that dumping helpless, sick/mentally ill people by a hospital is despicable. The Hippocratic Oath that all doctors take states "first, do no harm." There is something called a discharge plan that all hospitals have to have before discharging a patient. It requires that there be a plan for post-hospital care in place for the patient before he is discharged. Don't think dumping them in the middle of skid row is a discharge plan. What to do about it? Anything you have to do to prevent this from happening again.
posted on February 10, 2007 06:23:22 AM new
Why wasn't social services called? I'm certain all of these hospitals have caseworkers, especially on the mental health wards.
It is my understanding that their job is to help people that cannot help themselves.
posted on February 10, 2007 07:36:46 AM new
Lie after lie after lie after hate filled rants and spinster vomit !
""He wasn't DUMPED....he said he WANTED to be taken there...and he was.""
No, dolt, he didn't say he WANTED to be taken there HE SAID he had nowhere else to go...there IS a difference!
linduh dribbles down her chin, """And I have caught mingo/crow posting only parts of articles.....without any link...without any references....and when I pull up the article myself....YEP...much has been left out. """
"caught" ??? What do you mean "caught"...who are you the "Spinster Who Controls All and Makes the Laws" ???
Where is the LAW that says I have to post a link?
I show WHO wrote the article and/or the news agency...and I don't owe you even that.
So what if "much has been left out"...YOU seem quite capable of FINDING the article to SEE if I left anything out so WHAT"S the problem ?
AND, poor lonely shriveled up old WIDOW.,,,
when I ask YOU for proof you NEED me to NOT provide a link so that YOU can weasel out of an answer You do it ALL the time !
LOL!
C'mon. linduh, let's hear some more oh so interesting "Canada is An Evil Place" rants !!
Or how about a big rant on
""Evil Homeles Living on the Street PARAPLEGIC in the US Steals!""
Ya, I kinda think YOUR miserable standards would drop under those circumstances.....let's talk about healthy rich people stealing...LOL!
I see you ignored my story of the AMERICAN VETERAN WHO KILLED HIMSELF AFTER BEING TURNED AWAY FROM A VETS HOSPITAL...
posted on February 10, 2007 08:39:19 AM newWhat to do about it? Anything you have to do to prevent this from happening again.
Media attention should be paid to problems like this so there are investigations to identify where the system failed. It would be worse if it became so common place that no one paid attention anymore.
The fact that there are those that seem to defend these actions and casually blame the patient for his predicament should never become the norm in any society.
If Canadian news picks up this story it may show the risk of what can happen if health care drastically changes to become more privatized and how it may affect the homeless in their society.
posted on February 10, 2007 09:41:56 AM new
twig said: "Why wasn't social services called? I'm certain all of these hospitals have caseworkers, especially on the mental health wards. It is my understanding that their job is to help people that cannot help themselves."
They do twig. And those socialworkers offer them choices....try and find them the help they need.
But just as with MANY homeless...they don't WANT that help. They don't want to be 'confined'. They choose to live like they do. Just like a lot of our VN vets. They don't want to live in some 'facility' where they have to abide by ANY rules.
The drunks/drug addicted don't care about anything except their drugs. Many are offered help, given medications and won't TAKE THEM.
We don't know all the circumstances about this one case.
============
edited to add for those who OBVIOUSLY miss this part of the OP:
"[i]In 2005, Hollywood Presbyterian was accused of homeless dumping. At the time, a top executive denied the charge, but said Skid Row service providers offered treatment and care for some patients who had nowhere else to go[i].
posted on February 10, 2007 09:58:44 AM new
coincoach FALSELY states:
"The post quoted a detective who said the fellow was dropped off in the worst part of skid row nowhere near a mission. This was posted twice now, but you chose to ignore that."
I didn't ignore it. I responded HE WAS ASKED WHERE HE WANTED TO GO....HE REQUESTED IT HIMSELF.
Try and grasp ALL that I say....not just the parts you wish to DISTORT.
posted on February 10, 2007 10:02:46 AM new
"""Lie after lie after lie after hate filled rants and spinster vomit !
""He wasn't DUMPED....he said he WANTED to be taken there...and he was.""
No, dolt, he didn't say he WANTED to be taken there HE SAID he had nowhere else to go...there IS a difference!""""
And in the "neoCONNED" theme , linduh quotes an EXEC from the hospital....oh, we all know how honest THEY are
"""In 2005, Hollywood Presbyterian was accused of homeless dumping. At the time, a top executive denied the charge, but said Skid Row service providers offered treatment and care for some patients who had nowhere else to go[i].""
posted on February 10, 2007 10:05:33 AM new
It also appears that skorpiogal
uses SELECTIVE READING, like MOST liberals here do
Her FALSE statement:
...."over the fact that a human being (wearing only a hospital gown) is left on the streets.
What the article ACTUALLY SAID WAS:
"Witnesses told police a van from Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center pulled up to a tiny park in the grimy area near downtown at 10:45 a.m. Thursday, a side door opened and a man, dressed in a green hospital gown and pants, began struggling to get out."
"His pants fell around his ankles. He fell onto the curb with his legs dangling onto the street," Long said. "He reached down and grabbed his pants, pulled his legs onto the sidewalk".
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 10, 2007 10:10 AM ]
posted on February 10, 2007 10:25:38 AM new
Who cares if he had pants on or not or if the gown was soiled before or after? Does it really matter? Do you think any human on earth would want to be treated like this or seen like this?
The fact that it happened the way it did is enough to disturb most people and for those who don't see a problem with it or hastily make excuses for it and then blame the victim it only shows the downward direction that society can take.
posted on February 10, 2007 10:52:11 AM new
It's quite clear that the bleeding heart liberals here don't want to acknowledge that some people don't want the help that IS out there for them.
We have a case here where we don't have ALL the facts.
There was a time when hospitals didn't offer to take patients ANYWHERE. Because of public outcry it became law that they had to pay for taxi's to take them home. When one doesn't have a home, they are asked where they'd like to be taken.
The fact that he had no place to go....isn't ANY hospitals responsibility. And that's who is being blamed in this case.
It's been mentioned that other hospitals have done the same thing.
Do I believe for one minute that all these places of healing/helping are THROWING patients to the curb? NO I DON'T.
Since this was investigated before, back in 2005, I'm surprised the article DOESN'T MENTION any charges that were filed. Now it appears there will be and we will see the results of that 'investigation' down the road.
So while some of you here rant and rave.....I ask 'what are YOU doing about the problem of the homeless?'
Are you willing to open your home to this homeless people? Do you give your money to fund Missions? What are YOU doing about the problem besides saying how terrible it is?
posted on February 10, 2007 12:20:11 PM new
If the homeless stay in the hospital after they are treated and the hospital is not a hostel to accomodate treated patients,then there will be no vacancy for the newly arrived ones who need to be treated?
There are some articles on homeless in Honolulu where the whole family just camp out on the beach.
posted on February 10, 2007 01:23:10 PM newI'd sure like to hear your solution as to what to do with the homeless after a hospital has treated them and now is discharging them.
I am surprise Linda just does not want to quarantine them.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on February 10, 2007 02:05:45 PM new
I'd sure like to hear your solution as to what to do with the homeless after a hospital has treated them and now is discharging them.
////////////////////////////////
They would be further treated at another station.
posted on February 10, 2007 02:20:29 PM new
I did not falsly state what the detective said. Witnesses said the man was disoriented so how could he make a decision for himself. How about if he had asked the driver to wheel him in front of an oncoming bus? Should he do that because the patient requested it? In New York and, I am assuming, all other states, (although I don't know that for a fact,) a patient cannot legally be discharged without a discharge plan for aftercare---whatever it takes to do that. They could lose their accreditation for ignoring this rule.
posted on February 10, 2007 02:47:03 PM new
"If the homeless stay in the hospital after they are treated and the hospital is not a hostel to accomodate treated patients,then there will be no vacancy for the newly arrived ones who need to be treated?"
No patient stays in the hospital after they have been treated. Even cancer patients diagnosed with terminal cancer are SENT HOME...or to another facility when the hospital has done all they can do for that patient.
"There are some articles on homeless in Honolulu where the whole family just camp out on the beach."
Yes, many facilities offer accommodations for family members to stay while their relative is IN the hospital....admitted on an inpatient basis. Some have really special facilities for the families...like The Ronald McDonald house for example.
============
Yes, you did coincoach. And you were WRONG.
Please provide us with anything that states THIS patient wasn't DISCHARGED just as all patients are.
You are speculating again.....ASSUMING again.
NO where is it stated they DIDN'T follow proper procedures to discharge him.
posted on February 10, 2007 02:53:05 PM newSo while some of you here rant and rave.....
I don't see anyone ranting and raving except you as most other replies seem very calm and matter of fact.
I ask 'what are YOU doing about the problem of the homeless?' Are you willing to open your home to this homeless people? Do you give your money to fund Missions? What are YOU doing about the problem besides saying how terrible it is?
Did you write that with a straight face before or after you flipped a quarter their way or was that even too much for you?
Believe me, if any of us state what we do or what we have done it wouldn't be good enough to satisfy you and we would immediately be accused of lying or having ulterior motives for posting about it just as you've done when this very topic was posted and as you've done so often before so why even bother.
posted on February 10, 2007 06:21:51 PM new
Hawaiian families camping out on the beach are not relatives of patients in hsopital.
They are not sick,they are just homeless.
They dont make enough to afford renting an apt.
posted on February 10, 2007 07:47:43 PM new
Linda, The article Kiara posted quoted a detective stating that "I can't think of anything colder than that," said Detective Russ Long. "There was no mission around, no services. It's the worst area of Skid Row."
I can assure you that dumping a patient on skid row would not be part of any reputable hospital's discharge plan. I don't know how you have the gall to even make that ridiculous statement.
posted on February 10, 2007 07:56:04 PM new
By the way, Linda, you said "No patient stays in the hospital after they have been treated. Even cancer patients diagnosed with terminal cancer are SENT HOME...or to another facility when the hospital has done all they can do for that patient."
Your statement is wrong. My own mother was placed in HOSPICE CARE at the hospital in which she was treated for terminal cancer. She remained in the hospital with just palliative care until she died--several months later. This was not a Hospice facility, it was a hospital.
posted on February 10, 2007 10:37:11 PM new
"[i]Hawaiian families camping out on the beach are not relatives of patients in hsopital. They are not sick,they are just homeless.
They dont make enough to afford renting an apt.
[/i].
Sorry I did misunderstand what you'd originally said.
IF one has to be homeless there couldn't be a better place in the world to be homeless than in the beautiful islands of Hawaii.
posted on February 10, 2007 10:46:31 PM new
LOL coincoach....
"Linda, The article Kiara posted quoted a detective stating that "I can't think of anything colder than that," said Detective Russ Long. "There was no mission around, no services. It's the worst area of Skid Row."
I can assure you that dumping a patient on skid row would not be part of any reputable hospital's discharge plan. I don't know how you have the gall to even make that ridiculous statement.
I'll put it to you ANOTHER way, coincoach. Each and EVERY time someone is discharged from the emergency room they are given a set of instructions as to what THEY need to do for follow up care.
You STILL haven't proven he didn't receive these required instructions.
Also, ALL emergency room doctors make the call on whether a patient is so bad they need to be ADMITTED or not. HE was DISCHARGED......in other words found NOT TO NEED additional care at the time of discharge.
Again, imo, you are ASSUMING at lot of things that aren't known about this case.
Many a patient is discharge/released and given instructions to see a doctor the next day...within a couple of days...withing the week.
So maybe YOU can tell us what HIS discharge papers instructed HIM to do?
Maybe you can explain why HE chose to be taken where he was? Why didn't HE ask to be taken somewhere else.
And WHY can't YOU accept he was taken where HE told the van drive HE wanted to be dropped off?
By the way, Linda, you said "No patient stays in the hospital after they have been treated. Even cancer patients diagnosed with terminal cancer are SENT HOME...or to another facility when the hospital has done all they can do for that patient."
Your statement is wrong. My own mother was placed in HOSPICE CARE at the hospital in which she was treated for terminal cancer. She remained in the hospital with just palliative care until she died--several months later.
This was not a Hospice
facility, it was a hospital.
VERY unusual. VERY. Most hospitals IF they have an attached Hospice facility STILL aren't kept in regular hospital beds in with the general patients. I don't know your mothers circumstances but MOST hospice facilities are NOT considered part of the regular hospital....nor are their beds used for both.
posted on February 10, 2007 10:53:13 PM new
Also coincoach - In the OP post it also said:
"City officials have accused more than a dozen hospitals of dumping patients and criminals on Skid Row. Hospital officials have denied the allegations, but some said they had taken homeless patients to Skid Row service providers."
See it doesn't just say 'taken to skid row' it says taken to "skid row SERVICE PROVIDERS".
In his mans case it appears the Mission was not available....so HE ASKED to be taken to the park....
posted on February 10, 2007 11:19:08 PM new
Instead of continuing to judge this man and making assumptions about what he wanted how about showing some compassion for him. I hope in my heart that he is safe and that someone in this world is caring for him at this very moment. No matter the circumstances that brought him to this, he has feelings too.
