posted on June 21, 2007 05:01:51 PM
Just today I was out having lunch and a local Army soldier was there. I offered to buy his lunch and he thanked me but declined.
He told me he just returned from Iraq and was proud to have served in our Army for 9 years now....hope to go back and really appreciated having folks like myself who let him know how much we support them and their mission.
How proud he was....and rightfully so.
Radical liberals/anti-war liberals/etc. have NO IDEA why these brave men and women CHOOSE to serve our Nation. But they are our true treasure....who are brave and have a different moral/constitutional make-up than do the cowards. Thank God for our soldiers.
posted on June 21, 2007 05:32:25 PMI understand most liberals disregard life in many different aspects.
To label most liberals incorrectly shows how little understanding you truly have, Linda_K.
I just experienced the death of two very close family members, one who had Parkinson's and one with ALS (which seemed to strike out of nowhere and she was gone within a few months and was much too young and vibrant to die that way).
Please try to understand when one is up close and personal to situations that involve the life of loved ones, we (and they) grasp to any hope at all when it involves research even if it is from an embryo that is going to be tossed in the garbage. If they are unable to benefit from the current research they died with hopes that others would be helped in the future and we carry those hopes for all who suffer as they did.
So when you quickly label most liberals as disregarding life or even when you choose to be critical of another country's health care system which you are so obviously unfamiliar with, please remember that some of us have experienced that very system first-hand in different locales, and found it to be a system that despite its faults, not only more than adequately met any needs required, it is a system that goes above and beyond what we ever imagined, a system where doctors quickly directed us to all available help offered.
And while you sit on your plastic high horse judging the morals of complete strangers because they don't follow your chosen path or the path of your leader, while you try to imagine any nasty thing you can conjure up about their morals, try to remember that any one of us may have just returned from a hospital or a care facility where our moral conscience was spent trying to ease the pain of a loved one and any other person that we could try to bring some momentary happiness to. Try to remember that some of us post comments from real life experience and not just from google offerings.
posted on June 21, 2007 06:01:53 PM
Went right over your head.
Hardly.
In my opinion anyone that advocates using human embryonic stem cells for research is no better than the Nazi scientists that experimented on captives during WWII.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
Here's the OLD OLD OLD OFT USED story of how linduh was out to lunch() and she saw a soldier (not if he saw her first )and offered to buy him lunch because she's a better patriot than liberals.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
posted on June 21, 2007 06:20:47 PM
Kiara, I am so sorry for your loss. Your post, while stemming from your own personal pain, sends the clearest message in this thread.
posted on June 21, 2007 06:23:32 PM
VERY well said, Kiara. And I too am sorry for your losses.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
posted on June 21, 2007 06:26:24 PM
"In my opinion anyone that advocates using human embryonic stem cells for research is no better than the Nazi scientists that experimented on captives during WWII."
What a dramatic statement and so untrue. Thank goodness it is only your opinion and those of relatively few others in this nation. Thank goodness Jonas Salk, Louis Pasteur, Ignace Semmelweiss,Fleming et al did not have your mind set. I'll stick with modern science and you can rely on leeches and eye of newt to cure your ills.
posted on June 21, 2007 10:37:04 PMIn my opinion anyone that advocates using human embryonic stem cells for research is no better than the Nazi scientists that experimented on captives during WWII.
I'm curious bear. Obviously stem cells are human cells, cells taken from frozen embryos that will never have a prayer of growing into human beings, and Nazis practiced experiments on living breathing human beings. Other than that similarity, in what way are the two so much alike?
posted on June 22, 2007 03:38:09 AM
linduh, ""CC - There are NO guarantees that embryo stem cells will give any more benefits than those other groups of stem cell research already being studied now.""""
UH, wipe the drool off your chin... that's why it's called
R E S E A R C H !!!!!
Look up the word in the dictionary...
linduh, ""As I said...creating life to destroy life is not supporting life itself. ""
The unused cells are thrown in the trash...what about that can't you understand ??????
linduh, """I understand most liberals disregard life in many different aspects."""
I understand repug neocons disregard the lives of the living continually in many ways.
linduh, """ Those who support life don't. This is but one area where the pro-lifers vs the anti-lifers are argued. """"
BAD grammar AND an idiotic statement.!!
"""Want embryonic stem cell research....then give to the groups who are working on it with PRIVATE funding."""
Typical neocon ...wants PRIVATE funding so a few individuals and a few corporations benefit and profit...money and health for the rich only....
==============
posted on June 22, 2007 05:34:57 AM
"In my opinion anyone that advocates using human embryonic stem cells for research is no better than the Nazi scientists that experimented on captives during WWII."
I agree, Bear. 100%.
After that they'll want cloning...so we each can have our own 'Dolly' to take body parts from as needed.
It's an ethic slide .....and no reason to go there via federal gov. funding.
posted on June 22, 2007 05:43:07 AM
"After that they'll want cloning...so we each can have our own 'Dolly' to take body parts from as needed.
It's an ethic slide .....and no reason to go there via federal gov. funding."
Linda, I did not realize that you have ESP and know exactly how every situation will turn out. Amazing!
What makes you think that just because it is labeled "science" there are no ethics involved. You have not cornered the market on ethics, you know. Most researches have more ethics than you, Bush and the whole administration put together.
posted on June 22, 2007 05:54:11 PM
From the Detroit Free Press:
"The legislation would have eased limits on federally funded human stem-cell research by allowing spending on studies using embryos that were created for fertility treatments and would otherwise be discarded. Under current rules, imposed by Bush in August 2001, federal money may only be spent on research using existing stem-cell lines, which some scientists say are inadequate."
The bill says nothing about creating life to destroy it. The bill would have allowed embryonic cells that were created for fertility treatments to be used in research instead of being discarded. Please keep the facts straight.
posted on June 22, 2007 08:35:24 PM
Why yes, Linda, I have read the bill. Maybe you should stop assuming you are the only one who reads around here. Here is an excerpt from the bill:
"2. PURPOSES.
It is the purpose of this Act to--
(1) intensify research that may result in improved
understanding of or treatments for diseases and other adverse
health conditions; and
(2) promote the derivation of pluripotent stem cell lines
without the creation of human embryos for research purposes or
discarding, destroying, or knowingly harming a human embryo.
Perhaps you can tell me where it says the intention is to create embryos to destroy them for research?
[ edited by coincoach on Jun 22, 2007 09:24 PM ]
posted on June 23, 2007 08:22:20 PM
Now you are backtracking. You have repeatedly said this bill would allow for creating life so that stem cell research can destroy it. These embryonic cells we are talking about have NOT been created for research. They were created at fertility clinics and, if not used, they are destroyed. That happens every day and is legal. Using them for research could help millions of suffering people, which is a lot better than dumping the cells in the garbage.
posted on June 24, 2007 05:58:13 PM
Nope...that is the ultimate goal of those who want/support embryonic stem cell research. Period. No denying that. They want to destroy THOSE embryos now....for research. I'm glad this bill was vetoed.
And you ASSUME those are automatically destroyed. They're NOT. Often they're adopted by couples who want to use them to have their own children. AS was the case when this bill was brought up last year.
President Bush was surrounded by those same embroynic cells that WERE brought to full term pregnancies. They stood right next to him. Wouldn't have happened had those who wanted to destroy them been allowed to do so.
posted on June 24, 2007 06:05:05 PM
"And you ASSUME those are automatically destroyed. They're NOT. Often they're adopted by couples who want to use them to have their own children. AS was the case when this bill was brought up last year."
How many?! How often?! What percentage?? What a joke.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
posted on June 24, 2007 06:25:04 PM
In part, from Fox News last year when President Bush also vetoed a similar bill.
====
"If this bill were to become law, American taxpayers for the first time in our history would be compelled to fund the deliberate destruction of human embryos. Crossing this line would be a grave mistake and would needlessly encourage a conflict between science and ethics that can only do damage to both and harm our nation as a whole," Bush wrote in a letter to the House explaining his decision to veto the measure.
Beginning debate on the issue, House Majority Leader John Boehner of Ohio asked his colleagues to uphold the president's veto.
"The bill signed by the president today is a positive step forward," Boehner said shortly after the chamber began debate.
"No just society should condone the destruction of human life, even in the name of medical research," Boehner said.
:snip:
Bush spoke in the East Room after vetoing the measure, saying he did so to uphold values on human life.
"In this new era, our challenge is to harness the power of science to ease human suffering without sanctioning the practices that violate the dignity of human life," Bush said in the East Room of the White House after vetoing the measure.
Bush announced his veto surrounded by 18 families who "adopted" frozen embryos not used by other couples to have children, otherwise known as "snowflake babies."
"Each of these children was still adopted while still an embryo and has been blessed with a chance to grow, to grow up in a loving family. These boys and girls are not spare parts," Bush said after several interruptions of applause from supporters. "They remind us of what is lost when embryos are destroyed in the name of research. The remind us that we all begin our lives as a small collection of cells. And they remind us that in our zeal for new treatments and cures, America must never abandon our fundamental morals."
Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., released a statement in support of the veto, saying it is possible to study "pluripotent" stem cells, believed to be equally useful but not derived by destroying embryos. He sponsored a bill proposing such a plan, but it failed a two-thirds vote in the House. The Senate unanimously passed an identical bill.
====
A good picture of some of those embroynic babies with President Bush in 2006. ALIVE, well, and making childless couples very happy.
ALIVE
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 24, 2007 06:29 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2007 07:14:39 PM
As Roadsmith said, how many of these will actually be "adopted?" There are hundreds of thousands of them and the vast majority will be destroyed. I AM for life---the life of a Parkinson's patient, the life of a child with diabetes, the life of a paraplegic--not the "life" of 150 embryonic cells.
posted on June 24, 2007 07:26:01 PM
"Nope...that is the ultimate goal of those who want/support embryonic stem cell research. Period. No denying that. They want to destroy THOSE embryos now....for research. I'm glad this bill was vetoed." There goes that ESP kicking in again. You are demonizing a group of people, the majority of Americans, using your own bias to form that opinion.
A question, Linda. Say there are 300,000 embryos that are not implanted in the biological mother. Say even 100,000 (and I doubt it is that many) are "adopted." That leaves 200,000. If they are not used for research, they will be destroyed--no benefit to anyone. What do you propose be done with these 200,000 embryos?
[ edited by coincoach on Jun 24, 2007 07:34 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2007 07:26:42 PM
"No just society should condone the destruction of human life, even in the name of medical research,"
Every time I read the above statement it reminds me of how furiously the left and the radical PETA group defends ANIMALS not being used in research for human benefit.
And yet all those like you, CC, who are willing to use HUMANS for the same benefit.
Hard to understand the reasoning behind that position.
posted on June 24, 2007 07:38:58 PM
I have read penty of research, and no other prospective treatment is as promising as embryonic stem cells. It is easy for you to tell patients suffering from these serious illnesses that they will have to make do with less successful treatment, because our president and a minority of his followers have a naive and unrealistic philosophy as to what constitutes a baby.
) and she saw a soldier (not if he saw her first 
)and offered to buy him lunch because she's a better patriot than liberals.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!