WARNING!
Neocons may LEARN something! Be forewarned!!! It may be scary for you
John M. Schwarz: A glossary of health-care reform
To understand the proposals, know the terms. Bear in mind that it's easy to be misled.
John M. Schwarz
Published: July 02, 2007
Michael Moore's film "Sicko" has spurred debate about the U.S. health system and about publicly funded, universal health insurance. Some clarification is in order to better serve this debate.
The most-abused label in health-reform dialogue is "socialism." It's commonly used as an accusation regarding universal coverage and single-payer or other systems that involve publicly funded patient care. Most uses of the label misrepresent the system components being addressed.
The biggest problem stems from
ignorance
about what socialism is. Socialism is an economic model in which the means of production -- land, labor and capital -- are in the hands of the government, publicly owned and run with workers employed by the state. It includes public financing and the provision of goods and services to all.
"Universal coverage" is a concept that holds merely that all people should have health insurance. As a concept and practice, it does not address an economic model; it can be used with different arrangements of private and public funding and production.
It can be used in a socialist system, but is not itself socialist. It can also be used in a market-based patient funding system, but isn't itself a market-based mechanism.
"Single-payer" is an economic model for financing patient expenses. England's system includes single-payer -- with the exception of some private financing -- along with government-run service delivery. That's socialism. Single-payer can also be part of a system in which medical services are delivered mainly by private providers and entities. That describes the Canadian system, which does not involve government-run medicine, merely publicly financed patient care. The production of services rests as much in private hands as it does in the United States.
Yet, single-payer proposals are repeatedly called "socialist" even when that label is not appropriate. The major single-payer proposals, both nationally and on the state level, are based on the Canadian model. Public funding of patient care? Yes. Government-run medicine? No. The plans do not include government production of medical services, the necessary element of a socialist model, beyond what currently occurs.
Claims that American single-payer proposals are socialist often refer to the public financing of patient care. Public financing does not necessitate government production of the goods and services delivered. If that were the case, all publicly financed goods and services would be labeled socialist, including the police, firefighters, the military, schools, higher education, parks, libraries and, in some places, even trash collection and snowplowing.
The misuse of the label stems not merely from ignorance, but also from ideological commitments and from the desire to serve private interests -- namely, those of health insurers. Politicians are notorious for misusing the socialism label, and recent Republican presidential debates provide numerous examples, notably from Rudy Giuliani. He either doesn't know what socialism is and what single-payer and universal coverage are, or he's deliberately distorting. Probably it's some combination thereof.
It's time for health-reform dialogue to move beyond ideological rhetoric -- something that also occurs on the left. Commentators from all walks, including the media, are guilty of misrepresenting what single-payer and universal coverage are. Ideology and commitments to particular kinds of economic models in a belief in the superiority of one system across space and time get us nowhere. The question isn't capitalism or socialism, public sector or private sector. It is: What elements of a health system best serve the needs, interests and preferences of the public? Dismissing universal coverage and single-payer with a demonizing label merely stifles debate on an issue of fundamental importance.
John M. Schwarz is director of United Health System, a health policy nonprofit think tank in St. Paul.
posted on July 4, 2007 11:46:23 AM new
Helenjw
posted on January 7, 2007 11:04:18 AM
I've always considered Mingo is a weak poster who relied too much on personal insult
Her opinions are of no concern to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jul 4, 2007 11:46 AM ]
posted on July 4, 2007 12:35:14 PM new
Currenly,most medical service and goods providers design their system around the insurance companies,medicaid and medicare.
They have listed price for each procedure and these carriers get a discount,if you dont belong to any of these carriers,you pay the full price.
Which is ironic,as these are the ones who can ill afford to pay the full price!
With unniversal healthcare,every one will belong to some organisation,would service be improved?I dont know but I can tell you there will be more abuses from both sides.
A friend of mine who was a lawyer used to take these hospitals and doctros to court for milking Medicaid.
As for the patients,human nature is such,when some one is paying for it and it is free to you,you dont ask how much it cost.I have more people who have been on medication for eons,they never ask how much their prescription cost,when they walk out of a pharmacy store,they just throw the receipt away,never bother to find out how much!
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
posted on July 4, 2007 02:29:44 PM new
John M. Schwarz is director of United Health System, a health policy nonprofit think tank in St. Paul.
United Health System
UHS provides
* Life
* Universal coverage
* Equal opportunity to access medical care
* Liberty: We the
people freely choose our providers.
* Doctor-patient unity in
a sacrosanct bond.
* Comprehensive care.
* Democratic policymaking and financing
* Lower costs through streamlined financing
UHS's John Schwarz was a Lourey Campaign volunteer health policy advisor
Becky Lourey
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Minnesota DFL State Senator Becky Lourey.
Becky Lourey (born September 24, 1943) is an American politician, currently a Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party (DFL) state senator in Minnesota.
Hardly a unbiased source of information or NON profit organization, since they SELL INSURANCE
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on July 4, 2007 02:53:53 PM new
Doctor-patient unity in
a sacrosanct bond.
???
When I was in NYC,my colleague 's mother frequented a chiro who is married to another colleague.
The mother is on Medicaid.
The chiro made her signed 2 copies submitted to Medicaid.
She will always comply,but turned around and blackmail him,she then get something from him everytime he submitted duplicate forms to Medicaid.
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
posted on July 4, 2007 09:05:01 PM new
And what words would that be dingo. The ones you c & p'ed because you couldnt spell them?
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
[ edited by Bear1949 on Jul 4, 2007 09:09 PM ]
posted on July 5, 2007 05:38:52 AM new
Bear, can you point me to the links on UHS's website where they SELL insurance? I can't seem to find them. You seem to have left out a teeny word in your copy paste above. It should read A UHS PROVIDES.
posted on July 5, 2007 09:52:49 AM newBear's cut and paste should read, "A UHS PROVIDES", which is what the website says. But leaving that little word out makes it much easier to give the false impression that that website sells insurance. His cut and paste does NOT say that. IT says "UHS PROVIDES". I've saved a screen shot in case that little A manages to sneak back in there.
I have 20/20 vision. Don't wear glasses. Take a reading class Linda. Now piss off.
[ edited by profe51 on Jul 5, 2007 09:53 AM ]
posted on July 5, 2007 10:10:19 AM newANYTHING the liberals/progressives/socialists propose IS socialistic. Period.
Always taking from others.....income redistribution...nothing more.
Most of their 'health care plans'....LOL LOL...different though they may be....ARE just MORE socialism. They LOVE socialism....and their votes PROVE that time and time again.
posted on July 5, 2007 11:26:38 AM new United Health System is a non-profit, progressive health system research, education, and citizen advocacy organization. "A united health system" is the type of health system we advocate.
Our efforts include producing explanations and analyses of health systems and the elements of the present-day US private and public health systems, including the many “middlemen” involved in the process. We share information, data, and summaries of research reports and reform proposals. We present original UHS research, our proposal for A United Health System, and reviews of legislation and candidates’ position statements regarding health care issues. Resource links are provided, along with original articles, articles from others, working papers, literature to share, and information about UHS legislative work.
To this point, what we’ve done with this site and writing is to focus on influencing single-payer/publicly-financed universal advocates’ thinking and efforts. We haven’t written for a general audience—yet, but will eventually shift our focus in that direction
We also are strongly committed to education efforts by conducting seminars, holding a monthly health forum, appearing at events, public presentations and talks involving groups with one to many participants. We also intend to participate, when possible, in any health system commissions, committees, and focus groups
posted on July 5, 2007 01:09:36 PM new
I have never heard any politician saying we have to take better care of ourselves,like Nancy Reagon once said -DONT GET SICK!.
We are always blaming someone else-the cigarette maker,the insurance company,the food processor,the drug company.
But what about us who smoke,drink,eat too much,not exercise,take too much med?
Just think if we stay healthy,none of this high cost will affect us !
Some of the high cost will actually come down,such as health insurance premium.
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
[ edited by hwahwa on Jul 5, 2007 01:10 PM ]
posted on July 5, 2007 01:53:15 PM new
"But what about us who smoke,drink,eat too much,not exercise,take too much med?"
Any type of health care system the liberals/progressives/socialists recommend WILL be sure you stop doing all those things....first chance they get.
Just review the post I made about how the UK, also under socialized medicine is handling their patients who need care, but will go to the back of their waiting lines....if they smoke.
They'll punish you right out of ANY healthcare except emergencies. tsk tsk tsk
This is only the beginnning of what they have in store for us. Hopefully there will be enough intelligent voters who won't let them lead us down this very slippery slope into more socialized garbage.
posted on July 5, 2007 06:09:33 PM new
I see for myself.They are a think tank Bear. They don't sell insurance. Your argument that they are biased because they sell insurance is specious. They don't. If they did, I'm sure you'd be able to find me a link from their site where insurance is offered for sale, by THEM, which is your contention.
posted on July 6, 2007 01:52:18 PM new
They don't sell insurance
So they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts and dont stand to profit from their "findings & recommendations".
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
[ edited by Bear1949 on Jul 6, 2007 01:55 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2007 04:52:56 PM newUnited Health System is a Minnesota non-profit(317a), progressive health system research, education, and citizen advocacy organization.
Seems pretty clear to me. They don't sell insurance.
posted on July 6, 2007 05:20:04 PM new
Quote mingotree: "I guess this thread just had too many big words in it....
For SOME the truth consists of words that are too "big"."
______________________
"Hahaha! poobear, I KNEW the words would be too big for you"
_________________________
"Hahah ANOTHER neocon avoiding the OP, the ISSUE !"
________________________
This is the full extent of 3 of mingotree's posts on this thread. Talk about avoiding the issue. How insulting can you get?
Yep, I'm on your case. The majority of your posts have no value at all.
posted on July 6, 2007 05:37:14 PM new
Must be two United Health Care of Minnesota. The one headquarted in Minnetonka, Minn. is a large seller of insurance to the tune of 71 billion.
posted on July 6, 2007 07:36:14 PM newMedical Tourism Takes Flight
By Kathleen Doheny
HealthDay Reporter Fri Jul 6, 7:02 PM ET
FRIDAY, July 6 (HealthDay News) -- Soaring U.S. medical costs are causing many Americans to take to the skies on "medical tourism" junkets, looking for high-quality yet low-priced health care at foreign clinics.
In many cases, patients get exactly what they are looking for, but experts also warn that the booming industry does have some risks.
"My own advice would be to look carefully at the accreditation of the hospital and consider the nature of the procedure. Are you sure it is the procedure you need? And is it done well at the place you are going?" said Dr. Ann Marie Kimball, a professor of epidemiology and health services at the University of Washington School of Public Health, in Seattle.
The surge in medical tourism over the past decade is being driven by rising U.S. health-care costs and growing numbers of uninsured or under-insured Americans, said Josef Woodman, the author of a guidebook on the topic called Patients Beyond Borders.
Almost 45 million Americans, or slightly more than 15 percent of the population, are currently uninsured, according to U.S. Census Bureau statistics from 2005, the latest available.
Woodman estimated that more than 150,000 Americans traveled abroad for health care in 2006. The number is projected to double in 2007, he said.
"That 150,000 number is conservative," he said. "Some experts say 400,000." Among the top destinations: Southeast Asia and Mexico, with many other countries, such as Costa Rica, expected to be the next popular destinations for medical care.
Medical tourism companies, in collaboration with special "health travel agents," have sprung up across the country, and some insurance plans are participating in these endeavors, as well.
In California, for instance, Salud con Health Net, a program of Health Net of California, provides access to health care for their insured Latino participants for services conducted across the border in Mexico. And BlueCross/BlueShield of South Carolina and BlueChoice HealthPlan of South Carolina now offer medical care at Bumrungrad International Hospital in Bangkok, Thailand, among treatment options. Bumrungrad treats more than 400,000 international patients every year.
The price savings on cross-border medical care can be dramatic. For example, one commercial medical tourism Web site (www.medicaltourism.com) estimates that a heart bypass in the United States costs $130,000, but just $10,000 in India and $11,000 in Thailand. A hip replacement in the United States would cost $43,000 but just $12,000 in Thailand or Singapore. Hysterectomy costs are about $20,000 here but $3,000 in India.
The medical tourism companies that have sprung up can help travelers find the hospital that provides the procedure or care they need. A growing number of overseas hospitals are accredited under the Joint Commission International, the international arm of the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organization (JCAHO), which accredits U.S. hospitals and other facilities.
As the practice has become more common, medical tourism has evolved, Woodman said. While the practice used to be associated with vacations -- get your facelift, sit on the beach -- and sometimes still is, for most procedures, he recommended separating the surgery from the vacation.
"Even after a minor surgery, there can be swelling," Woodman said. "Most doctors will advise you to stay out of the sun after surgery."
"It's not a 'fun in the sun' gimmick," he added. "People are going overseas and getting serious surgeries."
Medical tourism isn't without some concerns, of course. Experts in the United States worry that consumers might end up getting substandard care i f they don't choose their hospital and physician carefully.
The American Society of Plastic Surgeons has issued a briefing paper on the subject, cautioning potential patients that "it may be difficult to assess the training and credentials of surgeons outside of the United States." The ASPS also stressed that typical vacation activities -- which are sometimes marketed as part of a surgery trip -- should be avoided to allow for proper healing and reduce the risk of complications.
Even when patients select and book medical care abroad through a health travel agent, they must remain critical, informed health-care consumers, Woodman said.
The main thing a patient needs to do, he said, is check out the accreditation of the hospital and the credentials of the surgeon.
Spread of disease is another potential concern, said Kimball, who is also director of the APEC Asia Pacific Emerging Infectious Disease Network and author of Risky Trade: Infectious Disease in the Era of Global Trade.
"Medical tourism is obviously a route for pathogen spread," Kimball said, noting that different hospitals in different regions may have different types of flora. "The extent to which it's a problem versus a theoretical concern is as yet not known," she said. "I can't issue a blank 'go' or 'don't go,'" she added.
Kimball's advice: Look carefully at the accreditation of the hospital concerned and do your homework before you board the plane. "Check out the number of surgeries done, the success rates," Woodman added. It's also key to ask the surgeon you talk to if he or she will perform the operation, not an assistant.
Kimball said she urges potential medical tourists to talk it over with their own physician. As the concept and the practice of medical tourism has evolved, she said, a physician is not likely to automatically rule out the idea.
posted on July 7, 2007 07:33:45 AM new
"Care", "System"....don't see a bit of similarity in those two words orthographically speaking. There are some real reading deficiencies on this board, and it may be too late in life to correct them. So sad really.
posted on July 7, 2007 08:36:57 AM new
Mingo doesn't need my competition or my help, I'm merely pointing out the tragedy of someone thinking that UHC and UHS contain the same letters.
