posted on January 13, 2001 09:00:58 PM new
Every time a 'Pop-up' box jumps out at me on any website, I flee like the wind...
IMO, people HATE those things...Even the ones you clik on and they jump out at ya..!!!
posted on January 13, 2001 09:28:45 PM new
This has come up a couple times in the past and someone usually posts a link to Ebay's policy. The bottom line is that they do not allow javascript in auctions on their site. They will shut the auction down if they become aware of it.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on January 13, 2001 11:09:51 PM new
If using JavaScript in auctions isn't against eBay's TOS, it should be. JavaScript can be used in a malicious way and enabling scripting in your browser is a security risk. Not too long ago someone had the Kak virus JavaScript code embedded in their auction and a few people were affected before eBay could close it down. Do you remember EBAYLA? http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=16&id=213&thread=213
I've noticed the use of JavaScript in quite a few auctions lately even though I distinctly remember that it used to be against the rules but I can't currently find any relevant rule AGAINST it on eBay's site. Since I've been wondering about this question myself I decided to email eBay for an answer and I'll post back to let you know what they say.
posted on January 13, 2001 11:24:33 PM new
I was told by an ebay rep that it would fall under site interference. So if someone reports your auction, eBay will most likely end it.
posted on January 14, 2001 03:55:37 AM new
morgantown -
Many people have "POP-UP KILLERS" that annihilate the boxes before they appear. To them, you have no TOS.
JavaScript can CRASH some browsers, and popup boxes annoy most people.
If the TOS is NOT on the same page as the auction, it's never clear exactly what it said at the time the bidder placed a bid. If it and the description are on the listing, it's frozen at the first bid.
posted on January 14, 2001 11:12:16 AM new
Hi reddeer. Didn't there used to be a specific rule against the use of JavaScript before eBay started using it themselves? The only thing I can find that may apply is in the User Agreement under ACCESS AND INTERFERENCE which states:
QUOTE
"You agree that you will not use any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the eBay site or any auction being conducted on our site."
END QUOTE
I don't think that provision is at all clear concerning the use of js in auctions and I would really like to know WHAT the rule is. I sent an email to eBay yesterday and am still waiting for a response. I'm not sure they know the rule either.
posted on January 14, 2001 11:39:09 AM new
It is possible that many viewers have Java and ActiveX disabled, because of various Viri being sent that way. Personally, I have it all disabled, and blocked by Norton Internet Security. Gosh Shosh!
posted on January 14, 2001 12:58:09 PM new
bhearsch
I'll be really interested to see your response from eBay. It is my understanding that the section you quote is the one they rely on, and it is not at all clear, IMHO.
posted on January 14, 2001 01:11:10 PM new
I doubt javascript interferes with ebay in any regard, and if it did, why wouldn't ebay specificaly address it because many sellers do use it!
I like the pop-up windows. I have used them as a test and didn't see a decrease in bidding. I stopped using it because there wasn't much need for it at the time, but I can see many good uses for drawing attention to an important fact.
If someone was annoyed by a pop-up window, and hit the "back" button," I guess that's a good way to keep the easily annoyed away from my auctions. The rule of thumb, if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. I target my listings towards people who get excited and bid more making up for lost bids of those easily annoyed persons. God America is great!
posted on January 14, 2001 01:11:52 PM new
Hi shosh. Yes, many folks have these functions disabled including me. I have so much stuff disabled that I'm beginning to wonder why I had to pay for it to begin with.
Bill, I'll post eBay's response as soon as I receive one, IF I receive one!!
posted on January 14, 2001 01:29:38 PM new
Hello quickdraw29. The pop-ups don't bother me because I use a web filter and don't see them. I do have a problem with HumanClick, CometCursor and any other program that's used to invade my privacy.
I don't think I'm "easily annoyed" but, instead think I'm aware and informed on the dangers regarding the misuses of JavaScript and their consequences. I prefer to be cautious since I don't think Java is necessary for me to purchase or sell anything on eBay.
But, I agree with you that everyone has the right to do their own thing as long as it's legal AND not harming others.
posted on January 14, 2001 01:46:57 PM newbhearsch..... I know what you mean: somehow, I managed to "disable" my "Search" on my IE Tool Bar...Duhhhh! ...need to check what I did with my Internet Security... Gosh Shosh!
posted on January 14, 2001 03:41:50 PM new
I think it's important to distinguish between those über-annoying pop-up ads that appear automatically when you enter a site, and pop-up windows that only appear when you click on a link. If the seller has a link that says "Click HERE to read my terms of service" and then the terms appear in a pop-up window whn the link is clicked, I don't think that would annoy many bidders.
Now, whether eBay would permit it, or whether it would exclude bidders who have java disabled in their browser, is another question entirely....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 14, 2001 03:58:21 PM new
If Ebay really wanted to prohibit Java Scripts they would disable them on thier site, just like Amazon and Yahoo do.
There is a BIG difference between a pop up window that somes up automatically, and one that the user has to click on to get.
I agree that the automatic ones should be banned. But for years I have had things like "click here for detailed info about such and such" This would give something like a close up image, or techical background info that may be of interest to only some bidders.
Including this info in the main auction listing would clutter the listing and confuse some.
When I did these as a regular link then people would be exiting Ebay, which some did not like. Now I make them a Java Script pop up window. This is better because now thier main browser windows stays on ebay and only the smaller pop up window is on another site.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:09:13 PM newunknown: I agree 100%. In fact, one of things I have done in my new job is design on-line users manuals, and I use a LOT of javascript pop-up windows for closeups and additional information. As you point out, it allows the veiwer to get extra information without leaving the page entirely. And, of course, all of the pop-up windows are triggered by clicking on links as opposed to being automatic.
So far, everybody seems to really like the design...
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 14, 2001 04:17:19 PM new
My reading of the TOS is that JavaScripts are not prohibited unless they interfere with site operation.
I've been using JavaScripts in listings for years with no problems. I use them for selected items that tend to favor 360-degree rotations. Also, I code my descriptions in straight HTML, and offer the Java version as an option accessible by clicking a hotlink.
I don't force users to load JavaScripts. If they have slow connections or prefer to disable ActiveX, they can just view the HTML version. My server logs show that almost everyone who looks at the HTML version also clicks on the Java version.
I tried using pop-ups, but they are slow to load, and unless they close automatically, they are annoying.
My pet peeve is the insidious Comet Cursor. I'm keeping a list of the ME pages that try to auto-install the Comet virus without my permission. Ebay should have a rule against brute-force installations of spyware programs on members' hard drives without asking them first.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:15:12 PM new
When you go to a page with Comet Cursor it tries to install a program called MCC on your system. It even tries to put the little bugger in your start menu and your system tray.
The application file is called MCC Install/Uninstall. (My Comet Cursor). This is the folder that has the exe file in it. Do a search under find files of your hard drive for comet cursor and you will see if it is on your system.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:20:19 PM newcascarlet, you can go to this site to learn about CometCursor. http://accs-net.com/smallfish/comet.htm. They tell you how to remove the tracking utility that CometCursor installs. You can't remove it by simply uninstalling the host program so you need to follow the removal instructions from this site. If your husband purposely put this program on your computer you may want him to read the article as well so he's aware of exactly what the dreaded thing is doing.
This is one of the reasons I deactivate all unsafe ActiveX controls, all scripting including Java and WSH, MicrosoftVM Machine and User Persistence. The safe ActiveX controls are set to prompt. I'm not going to spend my time reading source codes to determine if the scripting is safe - I'd rather turn it off and not have to worry about it. But it really PISSES me off that the advertising industry can get away with these privacy invading tactics and I'm going to keep screaming about it until they stop.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:22:56 PM new
I would like to thank everyone for posting. Lots of great information, both pro and con. Blanche, I look forward to eBay's response. Thank you for writing them.
I wanted to use pop-ups to streamline my auction page. I spent considerable time developing the pages and a corresponding web site; however, any changes that turn away bidders, even one, might not be for the best.
Last night I revised my current HTML template. Did considerable cleaning of wordiness and redundancy. Cut some graphics and made a few other changes. I love it! If Java becomes more acceptable and reliable, I'll consider it then, the work is already done!
posted on January 14, 2001 10:00:46 PM new
Part of this question actually harkens back to another discussion item applicable here, but which I don't believe has been mentioned here: whether TOS on a page other than the actual auction page on eBay is binding. While I'd generally trust eBayers with excellent FB, and am an honorable fellow myself, I feel uneasy about terms that are not listed on the actual auction page.
I don't necessarily mind following a link to another page showing lots more pictures, to break a large number of pictures across pages so as to make download and viewing more efficient, but if they're linked-to with JavaScript, I won't bother, because I run with all active content (Java, JS, ActiveX) turned off 99.9% of the time. I've found, that besides the risk of malicious active content, that JS is too often used to very annoying (e.g. pop-up ads, ads that move around the screen as one scrolls, etc) rather than useful purposes.
Even if you want TOS on a separate page, I'd question why this can't be done with basic HTML rather than JS. Even when I do turn on JS now and then, or View|Source, I find most of the JS use could just as easily, if not more easily, been done with HTML. There, are, of course, some truly useful cases of JS or other active content, and a couple people mentioned a few examples (e.g. 360-degree views is a good one). Of course, I don't know the specifics of what you want to do, so I'm speaking more generally.
Sure, the safest way of browsing the Internet is not to connect, as is jokingly mentioned now and then; but really, turning off active content (and sometimes even auto-loading of images for sites I know have excessive numbers of small images, like turning what could be simple text links into image buttons), I feel the benefit of not being subjected to bugs, viri, some forms of direct marketer tracking of user clicks, and sometimes very overcooked webpage design far outweighs what I lose in the way of webpage "prettiness" -- and speeds up my web browsing speed as well.
In many years of computer work, including plenty of downloads, these and other forms of caution mean I've suffered only one very brief and minor virus intrusion, little in the way of direct marketers tracking me, no freeware or retail apps "phoning home," or other such nonsense -- without taking lots of extraordinary steps.
There are some things that I won't bother with on eBay: auctions that auto-load music (unless I'm given the choice to turn some music ON, I consider it rude -- especially when I'm startled), auctions that have so many little pictures that they take forever to load, auctions with tons of animated GIFs, TOS not on the page, or that would force me to turn on active content such as JS just to view the TOS or even one image.
I'm not sure if this makes me "easily annoyed," but when I do bid, I am a good bidder, and (not to brag) I have an impeccable FB record that frequently notes how quickly I send payment (even w/o online payment), how communicative I am, etc.
Of course, there are bidders who are very flighty, where some weeding out would be desirable, and you are absolutely correct about not being able to satisfy everyone all the time.
I would still reconsider placement of TOS, and would still note that use of JS may impede many good bidders who happen to know of the dangers or annoyances of the active content features. You'll have to evaluate whether you believe the benefits of active content and non-on-page TOS outweigh the downsides I and others have noted.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on January 15, 2001 07:40:07 AM newPart of this question actually harkens back to another discussion item applicable here, but which I don't believe has been mentioned here: whether TOS on a page other than the actual auction page on eBay is binding.
From eBay's User Agreement:
Listing and Selling.
5.1 Listing Description. Listings may only include text descriptions, graphics and pictures you supply to our site (or that you link to from our site) that describe your item for sale (or as appropriate, for which are soliciting offers to buy).
posted on January 15, 2001 08:35:09 AM new
A point which it looks like even eBay may be confused about... Java and JavaScript have nothing to do with each other except maybe a connection to Sun. Java I tend to associate with slow moving applets that I've only "needed" when playing an online game. JS, on the hand, is everywhere, in both the useful and the useless. For instance, it can be used by a site to check the integrity of the data you're entering (i.e. your zip has 5 digis) and give you a warning before you actually submit the page. Or for the pop-up informational windows that don't take you away from the site. Turning off JavaScript is likely to hurt your browsing experience a lot more than it will help.
Editted to add: It's totally possible for them to prevent you from putting JS on auction pages, so I'd say that's good evidence that it's okay with them.
[ edited by toyamy on Jan 15, 2001 08:36 AM ]
...need to check what I did with my Internet Security...