posted on January 16, 2001 03:48:16 PMCrystalline_Silver That's the spirit. I'd rather give it to Amazon or Yahoo! and will send them my 7k also. ebay doesn't need the increase. They made it in volume. Although their stocks looked weak overall.
posted on January 16, 2001 03:51:19 PM
Heres some math for you!
Start Up Cost for ebay
One computer $1500.00 Use for ebay (eGotti) 30% = $540
One Scanner $500.00 Use for ebay 90% = $450
(now in the trash)
One Digital Camera $600 Use for ebay 90% = $540
One Printer $300 Use for ebay 50% = $150
Total = $1,680
Average investment for resale $15,000.00 (although I am a collector)
Monthly costs to run computer for ebay
ISDN $50.00 40% use for ebay $20.00
ISDN ISP $50.00 40% use for ebay $20.00
Phone line cost (average) $100 40% use for ebay $40.00
Electricity is roughly $2.00 per day for ebay = $60.00 (I will double check that)
Misc. ink, paper, keyboards, etc $15.00
Total Monthly costs to run computer for ebay = $155.00
My average items list at $200 to $2000 @ 300 a month
300 Xs listing fee = WAS($600) IS now $990.00 !!!!!
300 Xs Gallery fee = $75
100 Xs Bold listing = $200
25 Xs Highlight listings $125
25 Xs Reserve listings $25
10 Xs Gift icon = $10.00
2 featured plus = $40.00
1/2 Home Page feature (one every other month $50.00
Closing fees (very hard to calculate!) aprox.. $200.00
Total average items list at $200 to $2000 @ 300 a month = (was average
$500) Today $1,715 "give or take"
Let's not forget PayPal etc... I never did look at those fees, the
fast payments band aid the costs.
Shipping costs went up! No big deal, I charge actual shipping.
Handling fees (I eat 50% of that cost)
$60 a month for mailing supplies - I won't count gas, etc. cause I
stop at StarBucks or McDonalds etc..
Now we have the NPB who slips by and you eat that fee, and I have had
three damaged items return within two months! (refused by address)
The time it takes to get insurance cash back (and good luck! if you
do!) My gosh! that insurance form looks like a fricking job application for NASA!
So, conclusion.. for a cost (now I have had many businesses I built
and sold) of say (lets round this off to a low number, my case) $2000.00 a
month! I can have a store front in a mini mall! PLUS, I can cut
down on the Xanax I need because of these bidders - not paying -
retracting bids - asking the most ridicules questions, AFTER THE AUCTION ENDS! - etc. etc. etc.
I will still auction on most of the free sites and CUT my ebay in half.
YAHOO! is good for toys and games and cheap items, 50% of winning
bidders DO NOT PAY ME! Screw YAHOO!
YOUR own web site will cost
average $30 (depends) a month and would take six months to get traffic, but
that's an entire different thread.
IF \ WHEN you form a BOYCOTT please notify me - these monopoly tactics
should stop! CALL JANET RENO!
posted on January 16, 2001 04:03:25 PM
I'm not concerned about the nickel and I don't care about reserve fees. I do use ten day auctions a lot and the $.10 fee kind of sucks. I guess I will cut back on the extras like gallery and double categories. >>
Yes I am not all the concerned about the .05 fee raise that seems reasonable. I wish Bush would shut his mouth though. He isn't even president yet and he is telling everyone that we are going into a resession and everyone is running scared and not spending as much at least most.
I do think the .10 fee for 10 auctions suck and I do use gallery or double categories much so I can't cut back on that but I will just list mostly 7 days auctions unless they are going to lower the fee for 3 and 5 day actions.
I was also going to transfer some of my Yahoo auctions but I think I will keep them right there and start looking at Lycos and a few other places to sell stuff and I am going to expand my website, because these auctions houses and all the fees for the different things are going a little nutty.
posted on January 16, 2001 04:11:09 PM
I will continue to list at ebay. I rarely used the 10 day auctions anyway. They are making it really rough on someone who is just starting to sell stuff. I was eventually hoping to go full time with this and go very part time on my job.
posted on January 16, 2001 04:18:08 PM
I just checked out some of my competitors auctions. Shipping has clearly gone up.
Many of the books I sell can be shipped by a US based seller for $3.95 priority.
Looked at about 10 auctions. One seller (a top one) was to $3.95. Others ranged from $4.50 to $5.50 and one was at $10.00 (for a more expensive book but similar weight book.
posted on January 16, 2001 04:25:45 PM
looks like the gallery is going to start being a waste of money. Customers barely use it as it is, and if less sellers put their stuff in the gallery customers will stop using it all together. I think Yahoo has the right idea- the gallery should be free for everyone so it is actually useful. Would make ebay more sales & generate higher FVF's in the long run I would think.
Packer, I do a lot of $1 opening bid items at 10 days too. I sure think the fee for 10 day auctions is a horrible idea. WHY are they trying to kill true auctions????? Also, there are a lot of items that just plain sell slowly- books with specialized subject matter for example. Yes, there are lots of items that can be sold in 3-7 days but Ebay will lose a LOT of variety- and variety is one of the reasons Ebay is so popular with customers now.
posted on January 16, 2001 04:26:41 PM
Ah.. to dream the impossible dream..
a CO-OP site, run by sellers (and buyers! after all, they benefit by being able to bid on cheaper items that are becoming cost prohibitive to post.... A site where the board of directors are chosen by a community of sellers. Where the company is and always will remain privately owned. When a company goes public, its like the kiss of death. Suddenly the board of directors are the stock holders, the greedy, greedy stock holders! We'd have to form a Seller's union - have annual meetings... nominate a board.. establish a tech team to do the nitty gritty, and the tough thing... raise the funds to get the site up and running (could be helped along, or maybe even achieved by an annual union member's fee of around 50 bucks or so, and maybe even grant moneys...). I have a hunch that such a site could run solely on insertion fees, once established. NO FVF!! If there are no stock holders, capital venturists, or CEOs to make rich overnight - if the profits are plowed back into the site for the benefit of sellers..
Ah.. what a dream. I just don't believe that these fees (especially FVF) are necessary. They are making scads of money, guys! Its all about stock options. Keeping the stock holders at bay. So many of the startups that folded were great little businesses.. but thier greed.. to race to the top.. by going public, that was the beginning of the end for them! Ebay has survived this routing of internet companies because of us. WE are keeping the stock holders at bay.... hmmm.. at eBay!!
At any rate, I think that actually DOING it.. forming a Union of sorts, and setting up an actual functioning CO-OP, would be an uphill battle, because by nature, we sellers are independent and stubborn sorts! but, in our legion masses, there is talent aplenty to pull it off... and in so doing, leave eBay dwarfed, and in the dust.
Does anyone know if there have been any efforts to actually form a unified Seller's front, and to launch a PRIVATELY OWNED selling site for sellers run by sellers??
Sorry for the long post! Just having revolutionary illusions of grandeur, here! But.. its possible.. anything is...
posted on January 16, 2001 04:56:00 PM
I could say I am surprised but I'm not. I have watched the prices go up on: gas, electric, sewerage, postage, cable and now eBay.
I'll just roll with the flow like I am with everything else. Who needs to eat anyways, right?
posted on January 16, 2001 05:18:41 PM
I don't sell enough to worry about the increase, it's just a hobby to me. One thing I did notice, and I've seen it before in other threads, is the comment about not moving because buyers might not follow. I first started lurking around AW as a buyer. It was quite awhile before I actually sold anything. I do check out the sites I read about here and I bet I'm not the only one. I bought something on a site I had never been to before just a few days ago. I just went to it to see what it was and spotted something I liked.
posted on January 16, 2001 05:23:35 PM
I'm strictly a bidder but I sympathize with the sellers. Still, the tom's paycheck can be stretched only so far and ebay is a luxury, not a necessity. If/when sellers raise fees to cover their increased costs, I'll simply cut back on my bidding to offset the increase.
posted on January 16, 2001 05:51:19 PM
First let me say that I have not read all 4 pages of this post. I skimmed through it thats all. So if what I am about to say has already been said then I am sorry for repeating. That said....
Ebay sent me the email. I thought "Oh Good Grief". I mean it seems like everything is mushrooming on me. First the PO.increases the postage, then Yahoo starts charging listing fees, now this!! (I am glad I stopped using 10 day listing a while back!)
Anyway, off I went to school to get the kids feeling a tad bit miserable.
Well, then I got to thinking, (I will probably get slammed on this board for saying this) "If Ebay has not changed the listing fee since 1996. The cost of living does go up for everyone, even Ebay, then maybe it is due."
Whether we like it or not. The cost of operating has had to increase for them as well as any of us.
I don't agree with the 10 cents for listing a 10 day auction, but I don't suppose there is anything I can do to change it though.
I have been selling for about a year and a half on Ebay. So I haven't been around that long. I don't like the increase, but after 5 years I guess it due them even if we don't like it.
posted on January 16, 2001 06:01:14 PM
I have started selling only items that will fit into a bubble wrap envelope for 1st class. I do require insurance of which I pay part of. That is my way around the USPS fees. The 5 cents won't hurt me because in those bubble wrap envelopes are no high ticket items, but I am sorry for the sellers that it will make a big dent. Mauimounds (I hope I spelled that right) How long has it been since you had webtv? Draacs and quite a few other free HTML's and music had to give it up because of copyright fringing. I had webtv and loved to do the HTML. I had 3 web pages. I tried not to put HTML in my email because computer people hated it. Well, good luck to all of you and I hope the ebay fees don't hit the pocketbook to hard. Take care
posted on January 16, 2001 06:10:09 PM
jwoodcrafts, sure companies need to offset inflation, but in normal economic sense that is done by becoming better and more effiecent at what you do. Prices are supposed to go down, not up!
Since I've started on ebay, my time devoted to a total transaction time has decreased 45 minutes, which has allowed me to increase sales 400%. That's an example how a business normally operates. Companies buy new equipment which allows them to do more for less. My camera allows me to post a pic once instead of getting many emails answering questions about detail.
Don't be tricked to believe a company is due to an increase in prices. Like I've said before, ebay is hurting finacially otherwise they'd find ways to reduce costs.
posted on January 16, 2001 06:22:10 PM
Could there be a realtionship between the timing of the announcement of fee increases and the fact that ebay is due to release an earnings report on Thursday?
Or the fact that eBay has entered into an agreement to purchase an auction site in Korea for cash? The other deals for Butterfields, Keen, and Half were mostly stock.
posted on January 16, 2001 06:24:09 PM
I hope that the new rate kills the 10 day auctions. The raise on $200. items is way out of line. I might try eHammer ( antiques and collectables only ) for my few antique items of $250. They are giving free listings if an item starts at or has a reserve price of $250. or more. Will stick with eBay for all other auctions. I can live with the little increase.
posted on January 16, 2001 06:47:16 PM
"Prices are supposed to go down, not up!"
ROFLMAO!!!
In the 53 years I have walked and lived on this great green planet, prices have overall gone up!
My electric bill is much more than it was years ago.
The new car we bought for $2000 years ago now costs 10 times that much.
My first house cost $19,000....sixteen years later that same house cost $75,000. Today, it is probably more still.
My daughter spends much more for baby clothes than I did 25 years ago.
Food prices...up, up, up! When we were first married I could spend $15 a week on food and we got steaks several times a month...I'm lucky to get out of the grocery store for under $100 today, and I'm only feeding the two of us again.
Ebay has had the same basic fees for 5 years...seems they are due an increase.
posted on January 16, 2001 07:19:31 PM
Let's see. eBay listing fees up 20%. It's only a nickle, but that nickle is a 20% increase. USPS fees went up approximately 20% for priority mail. Paypal's fees. Yahoo's fees. All within the past few months.
Profits (if any) are getting tighter. Something's not right. eBay is a monopoly. They're the only game in town. Same with the post office. Paypal may not be a monopoly, after all there are other choices, but they do in fact have a strangle-hold on online payments. Yahoo isn't an alternative for me.
That "sitting duck" graphic in the other thread sums it up. At this point, I'm barely making ends meet. My sales are down, not up, due in part to the huge number of sellers doing the same as me. Gee, I'd love to add 20% on to my final values, but somehow I don't see that happening.
These fees, auction listings, postal services, online payment services, are going up because they can get away with it. Mostly because they are all monopolies. We're not getting better service. It's a price increase, plain and simple. Just like my heating bill went up 25%. And there's no other power company to choose.
I don't know what to suggest. There's still no viable alternative to eBay for me. And no alternative to USPS. But one inescapable conclusion is that we are getting plucked by eBay. There SHOULD BE and MUST BE an alternative, some sort of competition, or this is just another day in the life of a soon-to-be ex-auction seller.
Something's not right. And that something is that as sellers, we are powerless to resist these changes. We're no better than piggies on the way to market. eBay is makin' bacon.
posted on January 16, 2001 07:40:12 PM
twinsoft, I hear you. Getting nickeled and dimed to death (by eBay and others) while sales and final values are way down. Reminds me of a quote by that judge in Florida who had the joyous task of listening to Gore's and Bush's attorneys make their arguments. He said listening to all their objections, etc. was like "getting nibbled to death by ducks" (I love that quote!). That's how I feel today, like I'm getting nibbled to death by ducks, one nibble at a time. Maybe tomorrow will look brighter after a good night's sleep. I sure hope so.
posted on January 16, 2001 07:55:26 PM
The increase is going to good use.
"We recognize that price increases directly impact our sellers. The last time insertion fees or final value fees were increased was December 1996. We will continue to build a vibrant marketplace by investing heavily in technology, marketing and customer support to make it possible for millions of people to discover and use eBay."
There are millions of fish to catch. We can get their nickels too.
posted on January 16, 2001 08:58:51 PM
Feel like you're getting nickel-and-dimed-to-death?
Drop Paypal then. There's a few of your nickels you can keep. I dropped them, my sales have not suffered.
I agree with whoever disagreed that items only get bids on the last day. That is hogwash, unless you're offering a 10.00 item for 9.99. Then it might sit there without a bid until the last day. I put good stuff on for cheap/no reserve and have good results with that.
Someone also said that expensive items need a reserve. Again, hogwash. Put a reserve on if you absolutely can't take a chance with it. If you've got the nerve, put it on for cheap and no reserve. The bidders won't let you down if it's a good piece.
And then there's "ebay outages". The truth is, except for a couple of very problematic periods in the last year or so, they haven't been down all that much.
[ edited by loosecannon on Jan 16, 2001 09:01 PM ]
posted on January 17, 2001 01:29:02 AM
Hi,After 2 years on Ebay my wife has tried some new things,even before the prices were raised due to MANY outages in our area.we would get maybe 5-10 hits a day.for a week.(on great selling items)no bids(this wrecked our christmas) THEN 50 hits a day & lots of bids..for a few days...then a week NOTHING..weird..at Christmas..actually late Oct-Late Dec..
Then we subscribed to the auction guild tag notes..(found out about it on these boards)the MANY outages they reported corresponded perfectly...
so we tried yahoo.(only ok if you Pay to feature)but something fun came out of all this..We'd tried E-Hammer a long time ago..tried it again(nice people there) We are doing well!I beleive list is free if over 250.00 but we do much smaller sales,pay the fee & do fine.Maybe we could all try a few auctions there on Feb 1-7th??
ALSO do the same thing on a FREE SITE wow!!
auctions fun again...we tried www.bidbay.com...looks like the old fun ebay.they.give bonus bucks to spend just for registering..many neat features..link where & to whatever you want..not a bunch of rules!!!..
very nice people FREE yes,free..
We asked on their message board,,no fees planned right now...check it out,,they will even pay you .25 to host your pics there for other sites.if they get 100 hits.also 1.00 per person affiliate program..FUN CONTESTS & more..
the problem is they need more people!!so if we all did what was suggested on this board on Feb 1-7th..not a boycott, just try something new..these sites just a thought..maybe Ebay would see we have our limits.i expected fees to go even higher..don't mind if the site stays up..but it doesn't.or ACTUALLY CAN'T.check www.auctionguild.com if you think we are just having slow times some weeks..you'll be shocked!!..well thanks for listening..good luck everyone
posted on January 17, 2001 02:32:55 AM
I'll mainly still stick with ebay after making some major adjustments after the first, as discussed on another thread.
Also heard about epier.com which is all free but looks like no bidders YET. Dutchbid has been e-mailing me all night with offers so I will probably try to build them up a little. My books will probably go to Amazon where I get 14 days for .10 and a 14 day relist free.
If we all went en masse to another site and informed our bidders....but that will never happen...........heck, 99% probably don't even know the rates are going up yet!
posted on January 17, 2001 03:15:43 AM
Hi Everyone,
First things first. To all the sellers that are operating on narrow profit margins and are just trying to have fun, I sincerely feel for you circumstance.
For the "Professional" sellers that make a living on Ebay, like my husband and brother-in-law, I really can't feel too bad for any of you. If a nickel or dime is going to impact your sales so much, maybe you should try switching the types of items you sell or maybe think of getting into a different line of work. My brother-in-law has switched products every year for the past three years and just seems to go with the flow. Know your market/product and the money will find you.
I believe that they raised their prices for primarily two reasons. (1) To help cover the cost of running the daily operations. Having all of them customer service representatives in Utah costs big bucks, even though they are probably making only $8.00 an hour. If I were Meg, I would have fired the whole lot of them. What is the point of having an Internet Company if you have to back it up with hundreds of actual people? One good sized server can do the work of a hundred excellent workers.
The only humans that should be involved are programmers, network techs, and a few good systems guys. Oops, I forgot to include a good team of Lawyers to keep the government off their back.
(2) To raise their bottom line for quarter 1. They see that sales are off, auction numbers are down and that final value fees are less compared to a year ago. The only way they can make their projected goal is to nickel and dime the sellers. I know that they are going to get another $50.00 every week from my husband ($0.05 X 1000 Auctions). And a little more from my brother-in-law. Now take that number and multiply it by the rest of the power sellers on Ebay. You now have a very big increase in 1st. quarter revenue.
To all the sellers out there. You know what you have to do. Raise your starting bid $1.00 to $2.00. Or raise your shipping. With a little tinkering, you should be able to make at least a $1.00 profit on every item you ship. If you are not doing this, you are not realizing the potential. I know two sellers that are making over $50,000 a year just off the shipping. You might sell your item near cost, but you make it on the shipping. This is an entirely different idea to making money on Ebay, but it works.
Take all of these comments in stride, they are just put here for you to ponder. Maybe some of you will see the light bulb brighten and come up with a new way to make $$$ on Ebay.
