reamond
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posted on January 20, 2001 06:31:50 PM new
Someone asking to purchase left over items from a Dutch auction is not against eBay's rules.
The seller didn't spam.
There were no under bidders.
There wasn't a Reserve Not met situation.
Ebay- by its own rules, states that any employee that participates in an auction must first identify themselves as an employee. I would think this also applies to eBay employees using information from an auction to contact a seller.
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smw
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posted on January 20, 2001 07:26:17 PM new
Pocono: Go to http://www.geektools.com I did a Who Is for 216.33.156.139. It is eBay.
I did a Who Is 10.1.52.12 and it came back Black Hole. I did a rDNS and it came back that it is a VPN. (Virtual Private Network).
I got the same reply for 172.18.147.34, Black Hole and a VPN.
However, you will note that 172.18.147.34 is also noted as (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com.)
If you go to Sam Spade you will see that 172.18 series is AOL. (I am not sure but it looks like a mail relay in a VPN).
Who Is for buffstriped.ebay.com comes back as ebay.
I don't know for sure, and I can't prove it, but do you think this message could have been sent somehow from eBay through AOL eBay?
BTW did you send a message to [email protected] or [email protected] to see what would happen?
What makes me suspicious is the wording: "Will you sell me one without bidding".
On the other hand maybe it is all perfectly innocent and a person at ebay didn't know the rules and sent a message.
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mrssantaclaus
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posted on January 20, 2001 07:53:14 PM new
I had an item listed about a year ago that can be sold on eBay if new - not if used. I didn't know it, though. Got an email - they were interested in buying my widget - did it work - had it been used? Once I replied honestly the auction was ended.
The bad part? My widget had already climbed to $67 in 3 days!
Oh, well. Maybe I'll take that widget on over to Yahoo!
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on January 20, 2001 07:56:56 PM new
I sid a DIG using Sam Spade:
139.156.33.216.in-addr.arpa PTR (Pointer) keiko.ebay.com
156.33.216.in-addr.arpa NS (Nameserver) crocodile.ebay.com
156.33.216.in-addr.arpa NS (Nameserver) ns.exodus.net
156.33.216.in-addr.arpa NS (Nameserver) ns2.exodus.net
crocodile.ebay.com A (Address) 216.32.120.21
ns.exodus.net A (Address) 206.79.230.10
ns2.exodus.net A (Address) 207.82.198.150
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xghzqtk
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posted on January 20, 2001 08:47:57 PM new
ENTRAPMENT! AND DECEPTION!
I had one from a WEBTV address to buy an item off ebay - - - a 1/2 hour later they canceled all my auctions with 22 min to go!
There is no reason you should not be able to cut "LEGIT" deals off ebay! I do it on other auction sites with no fear (if contacted).
If you contact bidders on other auctions to sell an item of the same for less - I can see, but to sell to a bidder who contacts you because of a legit reason or to see if you have more (that was not listed on ebay) OR is not a member is outragious!
My letter had stated the person was not a member of ebay and the way it was typed was the illusion of an old and \ or a person from out of the country. YES! it was a competitor who sparked this somehow and I know who it is....
I had returned the email with my mailing address (had a gut feeing something was up but never thought an ebay ENTRAPMENT) The person replied that the PO had claimed my address was not good, WOW! (I thought).
This person had my address on the email with one number missing, I replied with the correct address, the rest is history.
Okay ebay! you don't need my $500 - $1000 a month? Fine! how many people does this happen to? Ebay is POWER HUNGRY! (eGotti)
I have warned others (here on these borads and by word of mouth) I see more and more of this happening! The kicker is, you can't make a phone call to fix the issue or go to someone to fill out some sort of "NOT GUILTY" plea! it's judge jury and chair all in one deceptive move by ebay!
Keep in mind some need ebay to pay the bills! Some have left work to ebay full time! Some have closed store fronts to sell through ebay (usually same cost but freedom of the home) some invest thousands, tens of thousands to re-sell on ebay - ONLY TO GET THE BOOT IN A MATTER OF SECONDS! Then what? "Honey I lost my ebay account today"...
[is this a reason I see a growing number of 0s and 1s and sunglasses? perhaps new accounts? these 0z and one ratings know an awful lot to be new to ebay!]
OH' They had also linked "ME" to my brothers 4 year old account who has since passed ( how do I explain he was not me and he is dead! and heres the $80 he owed you!!!!!)
I can see a law suite comming a mile away!
Maybe class action!
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Capriole
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posted on January 20, 2001 10:51:46 PM new
No user ID included.
No name beyond the info.
My knowledge of remailers is off by a couple of years, but they aren't bombproof, every test I did seemed to find the rat's tail.
What a bummer.
I was talking to a seller I buy from a LOT and when discussing the possibility of buying direct she really was nervous about it. I mean I am into her for a number of auctions and I bid comfortably high, higher than if I bough in bulk.
Sheesh, the face of things to come: Big Bro' Ebay.
Well, I would email back and ask for a user ID, telling them that you want to keep an eye out for them when they bid.
Then pull the user info. But it might be dicey because it could be taken wrong.
Oh maybe send it back with all headers, and send it to keiko or whoever.
God, what a load of wallys!
Amateur Hacker Hour! LMAO
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oxford
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posted on January 20, 2001 11:15:08 PM new
I am deleting this post as it resulted in my receiving an unsolicited e-mail which tried to discredit the author of this thread.
[ edited by oxford on Jan 21, 2001 10:44 AM ]
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tabbinosity
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posted on January 21, 2001 12:15:01 AM new
Pocono,
Just out of curiosity, I ran it through Spamcop earlier, prior to oxford's post, using the header info from your post.
Sure looked like ebaY to me, and to Spamcop.
You can use Spamcop's demo mode if you want to try it.
(edited for clarification)
[ edited by tabbinosity on Jan 21, 2001 12:19 AM ]
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oxford
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posted on January 21, 2001 12:28:54 AM new
pocono,
Ran what you posted through Spamcop and this is the report I got back:
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:43:16 -0500
Received: from bashir.ebay.com (keiko.ebay.com [216.33.156.139]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:43:07 -0500
Received: from buffstriped.ebay.com (buffstriped.ebay.com [10.1.52.12])
Parsing header:
Received: from rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:43:16 -0500
172.18.147.34 discarded
Received: from bashir.ebay.com (keiko.ebay.com [216.33.156.139]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:43:07 -0500
Possible spammer: 216.33.156.139
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] not found
"nslookup keiko.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] ip = 216.33.156.139
"nslookup bashir.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] ip not found; bashir.ebay.com discarded as fake.
"dig bashir.ebay.com mx" (digging for Mail eXchanger) [show] Can't find mailserver.
"dig ebay.com mx" (digging for Mail eXchanger) [show] Found mailserver:lore.ebay.com. = 216.33.156.114
"nslookup bashir.ebay.com" (checking ip) [show] bashir.ebay.com not 216.33.156.139, discarded as fake.
"dig -x 216.33.156.139 soa" (digging for Start Of Authority) [show] - [email protected]
SOA for 216.33.156.139 in same domain as bashir.ebay.com - close enough
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.rbl.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] not found
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.inputs.orbs.org." (checking ip) ip [show] not found
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] not found
216.33.156.139 has already been sent to ORBS
Received line accepted
Received: from buffstriped.ebay.com (buffstriped.ebay.com [10.1.52.12])
no date found
Invalid "received by"
Trying to use previously line's 'by': rly-yh02.mx.aol.com
10.1.52.12 discarded
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] not found
Tracking ip 216.33.156.139:
"nslookup 216.33.156.139" (getting name) [show] 216.33.156.139 = keiko.ebay.com
"nslookup keiko.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] ip = 216.33.156.139
abuse.net [email protected], [email protected]
Statistics:
ISP ([email protected], [email protected]) score:0
IP (216.33.156.139) score:0
Would send complaint to [email protected], [email protected]
Pocono - look at the digging for start of authority - it shows [email protected]
[ edited by oxford on Jan 21, 2001 12:30 AM ]
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ed123
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posted on January 21, 2001 01:11:48 AM new
You know what. There may be a 2nd kind of entrapment going on here. Ebay (if they read this thread) now knows who the person posting as pocono is.
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morgantown
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posted on January 21, 2001 01:16:24 AM new
Now that's scary!
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dinapal
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posted on January 21, 2001 04:14:13 AM new
Hi!
I think another look at Ebay's selling offenses perhaps is in order.
I've looked them over, and unless I'm missing something, all offenses are of sellers contacting potential bidders.
There's no mention of an offense if a bidder contacts you.
The way I read it, if someone contacts you, you're not breaking their rules.
Can someone else take a look at these? Or is there some other section of rules I'm missing?
Thanks!
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flynn
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posted on January 21, 2001 04:36:19 AM new
I emailed eBay about this exact thing and what they told me was if I listed the item with a BIN and then emailed the auction number to the person who had contacted me about purchasing it, that was perfectly okay. Talk about greedy, huh?
This is a copy of their answer to me:
Thank you for writing eBay.
If the contact is not unsolicited then it is not spam. The key word is unsolicited. The problem happens when the seller starts to shop around for a buyer or solicit bids with unsolicited emails.
The way you have suggested of relisting using the Buy It Now would work. It would also keep the transaction in the eBay system and subject to our protections and feedback.
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zeenza
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posted on January 21, 2001 07:07:51 AM new
Here's another paranoid thought to ponder.
Is it possible that EBAY 'labels' people who have received warnings and then auto generates this message to their accounts?
Not cool
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abacaxi
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posted on January 21, 2001 07:26:39 AM new
Pocono -
The logical thing to do is to forward the email to eBay, and report the SENDER for violating the TOS about dealing outside of auctions. You might want to ask them why the email AND the reply BOTH came through eBay servers ... let them know they are caught.
If it WAS a competitor doing this, it will backfire. If it was eBay, they should wise up!
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mayfair
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posted on January 21, 2001 08:26:10 AM new
Email on.
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RB
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posted on January 21, 2001 08:31:01 AM new
I'd tell eBay to take a hike and sell whatever to whoever you want.
Still a free world, isn't it??
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Minx47
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posted on January 21, 2001 08:41:04 AM new
How does one do a "who is" search that is mentioned above. I have seen several references to it off and on and always wondered. Thanks
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spazmodeus
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posted on January 21, 2001 09:20:54 AM new
Approach this incident with an adversarial mindset towards eBay and you can generate numerous paranoid scenarios.
Approach it from the viewpoint of common sense and it doesn't stand up.
Do you really think eBay is going out of its way to trap people selling a few extra housewares? Why would they? So they can cancel Pocono's account on the spot? What would cancelling one guy's account accomplish, besides cutting eBay off from the fees he was generating? Better to send a warning first. That way the point gets across but the fees keep coming in.
I'm just not buying into this as an orchestrated plot by eBay. If a company is going to resort to Draconian measures and make an example of someone in order to put the fear of God into its customers, it needs to be high profile. They have to be sure that the word will get out: Look how we have punished this infidel! He has paid dearly for his crime. Will you be next? Remember, we are watching you ... It doesn't fly -- unless you also want to believe that eBay has focused untold dollars and man-hours in an effort to ferret out the true identity of outspoken AW poster, Pocono.
It seems to me that eBay has bigger challenges and problems to focus on than running covert ops to entrap and cancel small sellers.
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abacaxi
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posted on January 21, 2001 09:43:36 AM new
Minx47 -
to fnid out who owns a IP address (the numbers in that email) you goto geektools,com or samspade.org and ask for information about the numbers or the domain name.
SEEING THAT 216.33.156.139 has already been sent to ORBS (OPEN RELAY BLOCKING SYSTEM) because it is an open relay and will take email from outsiders and send to addresses outside the eBay system.
216.33.156.139 was first confirmed as an open relay output 2000-09-01 02:01:46 UTC (yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss)
Official name: keiko.ebay.com
Addresses: 216.33.156.139
... it MIGHT be someone relaying through EbAY's server to make it look like eBay is sending you email. Basically a scammer's trick, and opointing this out to eBay might get them to close the server.
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spazmodeus
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posted on January 21, 2001 09:59:50 AM new
[i]Official name: keiko.ebay.com
Addresses: 216.33.156.139[/i]
I also find it difficult to believe that eBay has a killer whale working for them.
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sg52
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posted on January 21, 2001 10:12:08 AM new
I'm with spasmodeous. When it's all figured out, this will be shown a very ordinary attempt by a buyer to buy something.
eBay is on thin ice trying to control transactions which happen outside an auction. They're not going to create a firestorm of controversy regarding this issue.
sg52
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xghzqtk
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posted on January 21, 2001 10:32:23 AM new
spazmodeus
<i>Approach it from the viewpoint of common sense and it doesn't stand up.</i>
It has happened to me and here is the proof!
Received: from storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net
"I am not belong to Ebay. Could I buy direct a XXXXXXXXXXX . Will
send post money order to pay for XXXXXXXX. Tell amount and address and I
will send it for you to you."
WHO IS "storefull" ?
It's EBAY!
They suspended me 1/2 hour after asking to buy off ebay. (over a year ago)
True, <b> Pocono</b> situation could be the result of a bidder who had emailed through ebay by clicking on Pocono email address on ebay (not sure how - but I see a doubt there)
I need to stop reading some of these threads because I see a LOT of investors defending ebay (or YAHOO!) over reality.
This is not investors corner. People should be aware of tatics that could have you lose your account. I also believe ebay buys items to investigate fraud, that would entertain an investor - BUT the other facts of entrapment by deception does not!
Good Luck peoples!
I am not xghzqtk on ebay or anywhere else.
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selecto
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posted on January 21, 2001 10:37:58 AM new
You are absolutely right. Those good folks at eBay would never violate their own TOS or engage in unethical behaviour. It has to be something else.
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oxford
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posted on January 21, 2001 10:42:18 AM new
I don't believe there is ANYTHING outrageous with the idea that eBay may pose as buyers to randomly check to see how the TOS is being followed.
I believe that they do this mainly randomly, but I think it may be targetted in some cases where another seller gives eBay a "heads up", (maybe a competitor trying to eliminate his/her competition?). I don't think that this scenario is out of the realm of real possibility at all!
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MrJim
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posted on January 21, 2001 10:43:38 AM new
Read the SpamCop results posted above. It was sent by an Ebay employee: [email protected]
They are an employee of Ebay (only Ebay employees have @ebay.com email addresses) and a registered user since March 1998 with no activity. So either they are trying to catch you selling offline, or this is how they buy things. (since obviously they don't bid) Either way it is Ebay, and either way it is BS.
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kudzurose
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posted on January 21, 2001 11:00:00 AM new
"They have to be sure that the word will get out: Look how we have punished this infidel! He has paid dearly for his crime. Will you be next? Remember, we are watching you ... It doesn't fly -- unless you also want to believe that eBay has focused untold dollars and man-hours in an effort to ferret out the true identity of outspoken AW poster, Pocono."
I agree with spaz, up to a point. But would it really take untold dollars and man-hours to ferret out Pocono's identity? I don't know the answer to that; but if eBay does want to use these tactics, it seems to me that targeting users who ARE outspoken on the discussion boards would be one way to "get the word out" that selling off eBay won't be tolerated.
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stockticker
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posted on January 21, 2001 11:16:40 AM new
I have a really fluky memory. 
The e-mail address "[email protected]" sounded familiar from a long-ago post. I was right. I did a site search here on AW of the e-mail address.
Check out the last line of the post by Newguy on November 2, 1999 on this thread:
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&id=78096&thread=77664
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spazmodeus
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posted on January 21, 2001 11:29:05 AM new
Irene,
On certain occasions in the past I've found myself at once infuriated and amazed by your memory, but this one leaves me speechless.
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oxford
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posted on January 21, 2001 11:29:32 AM new
Wow stockticker, you have an incredible memory!
It was an official e-mail from eBay that showed basically the same results when put through Spamcop. I don't think there is much doubt as to the origin of Pocono's wife's e-mail. While I think eBay may do this sort of thing, (posing as a buyer), it is still very unsettling.
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