posted on January 21, 2001 11:46:07 AM
I am not a computer whiz, but it doesn't look any different than the headers on the email I got, when someone used the "ask the seller a question" link. Can't it be that simple?? since they weren't a bidder the easiest way to reach you would be through that link.
Please enter your question here.
Hello,
What year would you date this card?
#xxxxxxx
Title of item: xxxxxx
Seller: xxxxxxx
Starts: xx-Jan-01 10:37:07 EST
Ends: xx-Jan-01 10:37:07 EST
Price: Currently US $xx
To view the item, go to:xxxxxxxxx
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from h8.mail.home.com ([xxxxxx])
by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com
(InterMail vM.xxxxx-xxxxxxxx) with ESMTP
id <[email protected]>
for <[email protected]>;
Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:38:00 -0800
Received: from mx8-rwc.mail.home.com (mx8-rwc.mail.home.com [xxxxx])
by h8.mail.home.com (xxxxxxx) with ESMTP id xxxxxxxxxx
for <[email protected]>; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:40:01 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected]
Received: from kira.ebay.com (keiko.ebay.com [216.33.156.139])
by mx8-rwc.mail.home.com (xxxxxxxxx) with ESMTP id f0DHexxxxxxx
for <[email protected]>; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:40:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from graybanded.ebay.com (graybanded.ebay.com [10.1.52xxxxxx])
by kira.ebay.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id fxxxxxxx
Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:39:23 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Question for seller -- xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:39:23 PST
Apparently-To: <[email protected]>
just enough xxx's substituted to not identify anyone.
posted on January 21, 2001 12:27:12 PM
A couple of other people have asked in this thread, but I haven't seen an answer yet -- justwhat in eBay's TOS might Mrs. Pocono be violating by selling items leftover from a dutch auction outside of eBay?
Can someone find the exact rule and post it here, please? I can't seem to find it anywhere in the new rules or old rules.
posted on January 21, 2001 12:31:33 PM
Where are the new rules, or clarifications, posted that eBay issued recently? It seemed to me as I read them that they were going to TRY to stop any sale where the info on the item was gotten off eBay - Dutch auction or any other auction. But I can't find those new rules anywhere. Weren't they on the Announcements Board?
posted on January 21, 2001 12:53:31 PM
The person that sent the email is the one that violated the rules. The Ebay policy states: "Soliciting a seller to sell a listed item outside of eBay"
There is also a rule that prohibits using any "feature" of Ebay to sell an item outside of Ebay. The ability to retreive a seller's email address is a "feature" of Ebay and could be construed as a violation if the seller makes the deal outside of Ebay.
We have a standard reply that we send to all such inquirers. It is:
Dear Bidder,
Thank you for your interest in our products. Our unsuccessful auction items are either relisted or returned to our webisite. Here are links to both:
www.ebay.com/sellersearch/mrjims-auctions.htm
www.mrjimshouseofcrap.com
FYI - When using the International eBay sites, if you click on the "Ask Seller A Question" link, you are taken to an online eBay form.
When you use that form, the email is routed through eBay. If you take a look at the FULL headers, (keiko.ebay.com [216.33.156.139]) will show, as will blunthead.ebay.com ([10.1.23.20]) by leeta.ebay.com (8.10.2/8.10.2)
The subject of the email will read as follows.
Question for seller -- Item #XXXXXXX
The interesting part is, that if you respond to the question, and the person then emails you back again, on the reply back to you, the eBay addys do not show up in the headers.
Soooooooooo, unless they went back to the form & generated another question [which I'm not even sure is possible on a closed auction?], you shouldn't be seeing eBay addys & IP's in the final response email.
edited to add: I just checked some closed auctions on the eBay Canada site, and you can still use the "Ask The Seller A Question" form, on closed auctions.
Explain that the item is no longer offered at Ebay! Post the item of interest on a free site, link them to it. You are now absolved from any legal ramifications!
posted on January 21, 2001 01:07:48 PM
Pocono - I don't know nuthin' bout computer lingo, traces, etc. but I did a search on Yahoo for [email protected]. Found some pretty old stuff that seemed interesting, (at least to me).
By the way, this is for SMW - don't know if this will help.
posted on January 21, 2001 03:24:34 PM
Just to add a little more grist to the mill. How come I've seen so many auctions show up with links to the seller's website where they have more items for sale. Surely that's blatant fee avoidance and much easier to crack down on.
posted on January 21, 2001 03:46:24 PM
I sent myself an auction via the 'send this auction to a friend' button on an auction page and got almost the identical headers. The only difference is that I'm not on AOL, so that part was different.
Robin
edited to get rid of the sig line that will probably follow me to my grave.
[ edited by monkeysuit on Jan 21, 2001 03:47 PM ]
posted on January 21, 2001 03:53:47 PM
Found this thread while browsing. for two years now I have been resisting posting anything on ebay, despite it's heavy traffic.
I am dang glad I did. thank you all for reminding me why I stayed away from there.
And if any of you ever get the chance, come visit my country, I live in The USA.
posted on January 21, 2001 04:50:27 PM
I sent an "ask seller a question" to myself from eBay Canada (from my buying ID to my selling ID), ran it through Spamcop and these are the results (below) It appears that sending e-mail this way does make it appear that it comes from eBay itself, with [email protected] as the start of authority. I feel lots better now!!!
Received: from morn.ebay.com (keiko.ebay.com [216.33.156.139])
by xxxxxx.xxxxxx.net (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0M0U6613324
for <x>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:30:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from pelobat.ebay.com (pelobat.ebay.com [10.1.50.44])
by morn.ebay.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f0M0Tqr14946
for <x>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:29:52 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #XXXXXXXXXXX
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:29:51 PST
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-UIDL: 22@!!0gk!!O32"!=XU"!
X-SpamCop-Saveurl:http://www.ca.ebay.com
Track </sc?action=trackhost&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ca.ebay.com> - Original spam contained link: http://www.ca.ebay.com
Parsing header:
Received: from morn.ebay.com (keiko.ebay.com [XXX.XXXX.XXXX]) by xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxx.net (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0M0U6613324 for <x>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:30:06 -0500 (EST)
Possible spammer: XXX.XX.XXX.XXX
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com.> not found
"nslookup keiko.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20keiko.ebay.com> ip = XXX.XX.XXX.XXX
"nslookup morn.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20morn.ebay.com> ip not found; morn.ebay.com discarded as fake.
"dig morn.ebay.com mx" (digging for Mail eXchanger) [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=dig%20morn.ebay.com%20mx> Can't find mailserver.
"dig ebay.com mx" (digging for Mail eXchanger) [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=dig%20ebay.com%20mx> Found mailserver:. Data.ebay.com. = 216.33.156.113
"nslookup morn.ebay.com" (checking ip) [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20morn.ebay.com> morn.ebay.com not XXX.XX.XXX.XXX, discarded as fake.
"dig -x 216.33.156.139 soa" (digging for Start Of Authority) [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=dig%20-x%20216.33.156.139%20soa> - [email protected] <------- *****
SOA for 216.33.156.139 in same domain as morn.ebay.com - close enough
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.rbl.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20139.156.33.216.rbl.maps.vix.com.> not found
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.inputs.orbs.org." (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20139.156.33.216.inputs.orbs.org.> not found
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com.> not found
216.33.156.139 has already been sent to ORBS
Received line accepted
Received: from pelobat.ebay.com (pelobat.ebay.com [10.1.50.44]) by morn.ebay.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f0M0Tqr14946 for <x>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:29:52 -0800
10.1.50.44 discarded
"nslookup 139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com." (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20139.156.33.216.dul.maps.vix.com.> not found
Tracking ip 216.33.156.139:
"nslookup 216.33.156.139" (getting name) [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20216.33.156.139> 216.33.156.139 = keiko.ebay.com
"nslookup keiko.ebay.com" (checking ip) ip [show] </sc?action=showcmd&cmd=nslookup%20%20keiko.ebay.com> ip = 216.33.156.139
abuse.net [email protected], [email protected]
Statistics:
ISP ([email protected], [email protected]) score:0
IP (216.33.156.139) score:0
Would send complaint to [email protected], [email protected] <mailto:[email protected], [email protected]>
Cannot file spam report from a tracking URL
Tracking URL - may be saved for future reference
[ edited by oxford on Jan 21, 2001 05:00 PM ]
posted on January 21, 2001 04:52:45 PM
Thanks reddeer. There's no question that you know WAY more than I about this. I value your opinion. It seems silly for eBay to do this...on its face, at least. Pocono must think they did, though...he sure disappeared........
posted on January 21, 2001 05:03:11 PM
I love it when you're right, reddeer! Now I don't have to whip out my trusty rocket launcher and point it toward California...
posted on January 21, 2001 05:05:39 PM
Yes, I know how you feel, reddeer; we Canadians are just so modest and humble, we despise our own perfection.
[ edited by oxford on Jan 21, 2001 05:09 PM ]
posted on January 21, 2001 07:42:19 PM
Here's the reply I got. Typical non-answer from SafeHarbor, and they ignored my question about eBay conducting sting operations.
Note the bolding (mine), which adds a new twist.
************************
Hello Steve,
Thank you for contacting us regarding our new policy on Fee Avoidance. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that if a transaction begins on eBay, that it is also completed on eBay. This includes where the buyer became interested in the item.
If the item is listed on eBay, you should not accept emailed offers to purchase the item. In this situation, the member sending you the email would also be in violation of eBay policy.
posted on January 21, 2001 07:55:09 PM
I buy items in quantity. At any given moment, I may have similar items listed on eBay, Yahoo, Amazon, or on my web site. Can eBay expect me to verify the identity of anyone who sends me a "can I buy?" email? Should I have to first investigate the sender to find if he is an eBay member?
Someone posted the other day that eBay is not a monopoly, because they don't use their position to limit sellers' other business transactions. If this latest tidbit doesn't qualify eBay as a monopoly, I don't know what does. This is restraint of trade.
On the plus side, I envision a new board game from Parker Brothers: eBuy. "Do not pass Go, do not sell on Yahoo or Amazon. Pay $500."
VERY interesting thought. I like you often have the same item on 4 or 5 different sites at the same time. I have no idea how I am suppose to know if I should get such a letter, where the inquirer encountered the item...ridiculous - plus I also have buyers who are active on both eBay and Yahoo - who knows where they first saw an item. This is a rule which I neither see they can enforce, or prove if they tried, AND I think it seriously violates Federal Trade regulations.
This is so far from the "venue" that if it was sad, it would be the joke of the year!
I have been away from eBay for months - have been selling on Yahoo, but since Yahoo got totally suicidal, we are moving some items back to eBay. Glad I read this thread, as I had no idea of all these new rules.
[ edited by oxford on Jan 21, 2001 05:09 PM ]