posted on January 7, 2008 10:22:14 AM new
Mingo, for God's sake. We need a civil forum here. PLEASE don't step into Linda's shoes by overreacting and starting some of the name-calling Linda was famous for. You and she used to really get into it at times, but you were calmer and saner than she was.
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posted on January 7, 2008 10:56:06 AM new"If you talk to trial attorneys, both prosecution and defense, they will tell you that eye witnesses are the most unreliable evidence. In their effort to help, they can be easily influenced as to what occurred in what may be a split second. I know I would have trouble describing the facial features of someone I saw for a moment in a highly charged situation. If a witness is getting a subtle message that this guy is the perpetrator, that could influence their testimony. Maybe juries are coming to realize that forensics is much more reliable evidence, although only as good as the forensic specialists performing the tests. This is one very good argument against the death penalty. How many people have been executed or sit on death row based on eyewitness identification?"
Excellent points, Coach81938!
I am not in favor of the death penalty for any reason but the possibility that an innocent person may be executed by the state is certainly a convincing argument against capital punishment.
Abstract:
What is the most acceptable theory of punishment? Philosophers have advanced several competing models as answers, including retributivism, deterrence, rehabilitative theories, punishment as communication, and many others. This article claims that each has its strengths and weaknesses and proposes a new way forward with a new theory of punishment.
Each competing view of punishment has a number of intuitively attractive features, as well as real problems. I attempt to lay out a theory of punishment that can best account for the attractive features while avoiding the various problems faced by retributivist or deterrent theories, for example.
My aim is to argue for a new theory of punishment that can overcome difficulties with the views of Rawls, Hart, Duff, and others.
posted on January 7, 2008 02:26:23 PM new
I missed that too, Logansdad. I only know that Colin was not involved in the offensive exchange between Linda and Classic.
I see that we share the distinction of having our names still prominently displayed on the Reverend's webpage that he calls The Ass/Hole List.
posted on January 7, 2008 02:54:03 PM newI agree, Pixia and Profe.Prison, like war is big business in the United states with almost 2 million people in jail...more than any country in the world. And most of those 2 million people don't belong there. Many are there because they are poor and unable to afford legal help... not guilty or allegedly guilty of non violent crimes.
Even in the US there are "public defenders" appointed by the judges in whos court the so called innocents are found guilty. They have legal representation and HAVE been found guilty or else they wouldnt be in prison.
You really need to get your idealistic head out of your idealistic utopian azz.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on January 7, 2008 05:07:55 PM new
"Even in the US there are "public defenders" appointed by the judges in whos court the so called innocents are found guilty. They have legal representation and HAVE been found guilty or else they wouldnt be in prison."
Where do you think OJ would be if he had a Public Defender instead of the Dream Team?
People who can afford it have access to the cream of the crop in lawyers. In addition to that, there is much more money available to do investigations, pay expert witnesses, etc. Someone who cannot afford a first rate attorney, even if the Public Defender were decent and not overloaded with cases, does not have access to the resources needed to put on a strong defense.
Bear, tell me what is overly "idealistic" about expecting good standards of legal assistance for those who can't afford to hire a lawyer? Would you want to be represented by a public defender who would let a prosecutor win a case without reliable forensic evidence? (Read the link that I posted).
Would you want to be represented by a court appointed public defender without influence in the court system? Would you want to be represented by an underpaid, overworked public defender without sufficient time, skill or experience to defend a client against a serious accusation?
Roadsmith, the web page is rather out of date. I don't see your name. Some of the best posters who used to post on OTWA are on the list along with several Vendio posters all with notations falsely identifying them as communists, socialists etc. Nancy Pelosi was on the list for awhile.
Some people may not want their status on the page published so I don't think that I should post a link here.
posted on January 8, 2008 02:28:37 AM new
Bear, consider the case of ex-marine Kevin Green. He had a fight with his 9-month pregnant wife about sex. Disgruntled, he went to the convenience store. In the bedroom in the dark, his wife thought he returned - brutally raping and beating her and leaving her for dead. She lost the baby. Although she was brain-damaged from the incident, the husband was easily convicted on her eye-witness testimony. He spent 16 years in custody, past his eligible parole date, because he refused to take responsibility for the crime. He was "lucky". A serial rapist, also an ex-marine was later caught and convicted of similar crimes. He confessed to the rape and beating. DNA testing proved his guilt in the case. The ex-wife still claims her husband as the culprit. He is finally free, working at Walmart. He received a whopping $10,000 in compensation for his 16 years in prison. http://www.truthinjustice.org/abafalse.htm
I strongly encourage everyone to use pixiamom's link. It's not just a coverage of that single tragic story but a thorough and interesting analysis of wrongful convictions written by a Michael Higgins, a lawyer and writer for the American Bar Association Journal.
posted on January 8, 2008 11:59:44 AM new
Thanks Pixia--great link. There is an organization called The Innocence Project, which are attorneys and law students devoted to clearing innocent prisoners, mostly via DNA. Why city, state and federal governments are so reluctant to perform DNA tests which can prove innocence is beyond me (other than to save face.) These lawyers have to fight, appeal, file motions for years sometimes, just to get DNA tests performed. They do good work and have been responsible for the release of many innocent prisoners.
Jailing the innocent is bad enough, but in states where executions are still performed, how many innocents have been executed? What ever happend to that old axiom "better to have 10 guilty men(women) go free than 1 innocent man (woman)be imprisoned?
I am a dunce when it comes to links
[ edited by coach81938 on Jan 8, 2008 05:00 PM ]
posted on January 8, 2008 01:04:49 PM new
Lots of good info available with that link, Coach...Links, Fact Sheets etc. The videos of people who have finally been exonerated certainly have an emotional impact. Imagine the number of people who are innocent and still imprisoned or on death row.
This board uses UBB code rather than html.
Put these tags at the beginning and end of the link. Remove the asterisk in the last tag and close the space.
posted on January 9, 2008 05:36:14 AM new"I had high hopes of making that A List, but alas could never live up to the biker's expectations."
That's because you are not in Colin's estimation a Communist. For god's sake he doesn't even consider you a fellow traveler or a Soviet spy. Since Colin named me the Queen of communist propaganda, some made the list by being my half-brain followers. But as a professor with a mind of your own, you couldn't qualify on that score or by being named the "stupidest man on the web". And how can you expect to acquire his ass_hole status as a cave dweller or a homosexual when you live on some highfalutin ranch with SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed)... your wife and children.
Now do you understand why you could not become a member of the bike rider's Ass_Hole list? If you are feeling left out you can buy a tee shirt from his site emblazoned with your choice of message such as " If we are all made in the image of God you must be his Ass_Hole or "Saving Whores for Jesus".
posted on January 10, 2008 07:41:33 PM newI had high hopes of making that A List, but alas could never live up to the biker's expectations.
Well profe all you have to do is call him a fake reverend (he got his license after paying $5.00 to the ULC), make fun of his "church" (the Church of Now and Later or whatever the heck it is called) and tell him he looks like Dee Synder from Twisted Sister.
That should get you on his "A-List".
Heck if you pay $5.00 to the ULC you can become a reverend as well and start your own church. That way you can create you own list and put him at the top of it
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid, and the envious. - John Wilmot, the Second Earl of Rochester
posted on January 10, 2008 07:45:10 PM newI see that we share the distinction of having our names still prominently displayed on the Reverend's web page that he calls The Ass/Hole List.
I don't many reverends that need to have lists but then again he is not a reverend in my opinion.
I wonder if his "chat board" - the OUTHOUSE is still around. Just another way for his "cult" to recruit members.
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid, and the envious. - John Wilmot, the Second Earl of Rochester
posted on January 10, 2008 07:54:56 PM new
logans, I remember giving him gas about it a long time ago. I'm one of those reverends too. I even have a "Clergy" thing to hang on my rearview mirrow to get good parking at hospitals. I ordained myself at the ULC so I could do a marriage ceremony for some hippy friends quite a few years ago, it doesn't cost 5 dollars unless you want the paperwork. Otherwise, it's FREE. I have entertained the notion of paying the 50 bucks necessary to become an official Saint. Sure is a lot easier than what Catlicks have to go through.
posted on January 10, 2008 07:58:19 PM new
Frankly, I think the bast@ard has it in for me. I even one time quite eloquently extolled the virtues of my father's old Indian Chief Motorcycle, which I still own, and allowed as how in my humble opinion Harley riders are weenies, all to no avail.
