posted on January 25, 2001 11:53:52 AM
YIKES! quickdraw!
Ok, in all fairness, my numbers aren't completely realistic either because thankfully bids do go higher at times... but my numbers are a lot closer to the truth than Margaret's.
I sold an item a few weeks ago that I paid a couple of bucks for and it went for $56. Unfortunately it was a deadbeat bidder so I'll have to relist it. I also have an item this week that remains untouched and is down to $1.00 that I paid $7.00 for...
I really love eBay and the opportunity it gives me as a single mother to be home with my kids and, yes, I even make some money... but I'm making about half of what I was at this time last year, and the powers that be seem to be listening less and less to their bread and butter sellers and throwing more monkey wrenches in the mix like 'watch' and not doing a darned thing to slow or stop deadbeat bidders. Why? Because they profit when sellers are scared to narc on deadbeat bidders... I'm one of those who doesn't file NPB's to get my credit back because it is too easy to leave a retaliatory neg so eBay just gets to keep the money that I should have back. THAT makes me angry.
But I will continue to list and look forward (!) to the next curveball they throw and dodge it as best I can.
posted on January 25, 2001 11:55:55 AMMeya: I sincerely doubt Quickdraw is doing this on purpose. I, too, am having some problems posting to this thread [either it takes forever or else I get an error message]. Quickdraw is probably hitting "post reply" again and again, not realizing that each post is actually being sent in spite of the error message....
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 25, 2001 12:25:22 PM
Qickdraw...goodness, you had to say it THREE times?
Sorry to disappoint you but passive and uninformed I'm not..but pragmatic and a realist might be ways to describe me.
The fact is..prices go up. It doesn't matter if the politicians caused it or if prices would naturally go up without any interference by the government or wall street.
The fact is...businesses, whether small or large, global conglomerate or little corner newstands, have as a goal the maximization of profits. Even in a stable, non-inflationary envirornment, business will increase prices to the highest point they can without losing their customer base.
The fact is...outside of kicking one set of scoundrels out of office and replacing them with another set of scoundrels...there isn't much that can be done to change the totality of modern economics. And playing musical chairs with the "scoundrels" isn't going to make any difference either.
So, where does that leave us? With a business like ebay who can increase prices and therefore does. They have no obligation to worry about the "little seller". Their only concern should be their bottom line. If raising their prices drives out some customers but the bottom line increases, then the increases were a smart business move. If the bottom line drops, then they will have to rethink their stategy....but it is no concern of mine or yours.
Ebay has no obligation to offer us more value for our increased fees. No matter how much wailing goes on about "it isn't fair" or "increased fees ought to mean increased value", the reality is the opposite...life isn't fair and prices go up without an increase in value given.
The ebayer who survives will be the one who learns how to adapt to the changes in fees and direction of ebay.
And yes, ebay is the king and there is no viable alternative...that is the reality of the situation....live with it, or change it...but complaining isn't going to do a dang thing but make you miserable.
posted on January 25, 2001 12:36:25 PM
Hasn't anyone noticed that prices are going up all around us? My food bill has gone up by about $50 each month over the last 3 months. I am bringing home basically the same things, so I'm not getting more value for my money. If anything, I'm getting less value as the packaging shrinks, or the ounces per package lessen.
Our home property taxes went up about 25%, but the actual selling value of our home isn't increased by 25%. My water bill is up, but we are using the same amount of water. My van takes the same amount of gas to fill it as it always has, but it costs me about 45% more now that this time last year. There is no increase in value received.
I know, off topic really, but increases in prices shouldn't surprise anyone.
posted on January 25, 2001 12:54:11 PM
When I registered with ebay there was no section that I can recall where ebay guaranteed me a certain profit...or even promised I would make a profit. I don't remember reading anything that said ebay would conduct its business with my profitability as its guide. Nowhere did I find anything that said fees would be based on how much profit I could make.
What I do remember is that ebay offered its services to me for a fee. What I did with those services was up to ME. My success or lack of it was my responsibility...not ebays.
I am running a business. If I make money its my success...if my sales start to slide, its MY FAULT...not ebay's. It is my responsibility to use the "tool" that ebay is to my best advantage. Its my responsibility to know if ebay is even the correct place for me to run my business.
posted on January 25, 2001 01:01:02 PM
"...and as for everybody else who is NOT trying to "run a business", you might as well just pack up and leave right now, since the only ones who belong on eBay are people like me."
I'm thrilled to hear things are working out so well for you, Amy. Really, I am.
[ edited by godzillatemple on Jan 25, 2001 01:02 PM ]
posted on January 25, 2001 01:17:27 PM
Amy: I think you are exactly right!
And by the way... (who ever it was that said rent doesn't go up "just because"... I'm a landlord. We have several nice 3 bedroom 2&1/2 bath townhouses at the beach. We go up on the rent whenever we CAN.
As long as someone is willing to pay the increase (and so far we have had NO TROUBLE keeping them rented) we will continue to slide up a little higher with the rent.
I do admit though - since I used to rent and worried whether or not the landlord would increase the rent at the end of the lease period... forcing me to MOVE rather than sign another lease with them at a higher rate - I have NOT gone up on the rent for tenants that:
A) I don't want to risk losing by upping the rent when it's time to renew a lease.
B) I'm in a hurry to rent the unit because it became vacant at a busy time for me.
Otherwise... we can afford to (and DO) risk the unit remaining empty for a short period until we can rent it for a little bit more than the previous year.
By the same token... if we do not particularly care for the tenant(s) - for any one of a number of reasons (the biggest influence being that of having to "hunt them down for the rent" each month) - I've made it clear well in advance of the lease expiration that we plan to increase the rent at the time of renewal.
With this in mind... perhaps one of the reasons that eBay isn't so swayed by the discomfort of Mom & Pop sellers is due to the fact that they DO now have BIGGER fish to fry!
Larger businesses with unlimited inventory AND Sellers of Higher Ticket Items bring eBay far more revenue for less effort than a gazillion Mom & Pops nickle and diming on the site. (I mean NO OFFENSE to anyone... just calling it like I see it).
eBay sure isn't what it USED to be... and it never will be again! Things Change.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:03:56 PM
Ebay has most likely wanted to raise there listing fees for a long time. With the recent addition of fees on Yahoo, it was the perfect time. Very good business decision on Ebay's part. They could not have picked a better time to do it. It was almost guaranteed to have no affect on their listings, and most likely it won't. The few sellers that leave over the nickel increase will be more than made up for by the returning Yahoo sellers.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:09:50 PM
Amy, you are quite eloquent. Thank you for your comments.
Let me add a few more thoughts. The owner of an office building makes improvements to the building because that is the owner's choice. New tenants are attacted to this space who feel that this office space will enhance their ability to generate revenue. Old tenants who are struggling financially leave when the rents are increased. The offices the old tenants vacated are now filled with new prosperous tenants. The landlord makes more money because he has tenants who are better able to stay financially healthy. The office building has been upgraded because of the increase of office spaces rented to more solvent tenants and the value of the building goes up. This analysis is applicable to eBay. Raising the quality of the sellers enhances eBay and its community.
My second comment is that if sellers put up items for auction on ebay that don't sell, and if the items don't sell on a relist, it certainly isn't ebay's fault. Just because someone has something to sell doesn't mean there is someone out there who wants it. A good seller looks to see if there is consumer demand first, then finds their market niche by offering items for sale to meet that demand. If demand slacks off, then stop selling that item.
My third comment is that any seller working out of their home who wants to sell effectively on eBay will present themselves professionally. If the seller is a person who buys items specifically to resell, whether purchased at a rummage sale, wholesaler or antique shop, then the local government entity will certainly consider that person to have a home business. If that is the situation, the seller should conduct themselves professionally as a business.
If the seller is just selling items from the basement and is complaining that no one is bidding, that is not eBay's fault. Perhaps there is simply no customer demand for the items and the seller is better off donating the items to a worthy charity.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:12:08 PM
MrJim: although, admittedly, the FREE online auctions are having difficulty keeping up with the increased traffic since the fee hike announcement, the fact is that there is NO bidding activity on those sites to speak of.
I do not think that many sellers will leave, due to the fee increase, and of those that do - 99.999999% will return before a month elsewhere.
However, what we will note is changing is that I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L-S will begin to leave eBay.
Indeed, in HOARDS.
Why?
Because they are b-o-r-e-d!
The ambiance of eBay s-t-i-n-k-s. (Sorry to my friends at eBay, however, that is NOT a 'value judgment', nor a condemnation - just a FACT.)
Pierre might be seen as having predicted this over a year ago, when he told a reporter for Time, something like "Having a buncha corporations shuffing merchandise down potential customers' throats is b-0-r-i-n-g.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:25:27 PM
Darcy: while I understand the jist of your comments, I totally disagree with their inferences, obvious conclusions.
You see..... I believe that BARRY is a higher quality "tenant" than Disney 0R Topps 0R K-Mart OR Amazon OR Target OR Macy's.
THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!
The Hobby Seller that Barry represents is a key element that made eBay magnetically attractive to individuals.
Just because individuals will Y-A-W-N at how DULL and b-o-r-i-n-g eBay is, and find something interesting to preoccupy themselves with does NOT mean that eBay will lose money or not succeed.
FAR FROM IT, lol!!
The FUTURE of eBay, though, just like the ENTIRE future of the ENTIRE Internet lies with I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L-S.
The Internet empowers *individuals*, and they will inherit the eBay, not DISNEY, not Macy's, not Benchmark, not even Pierre and Jeff.
eBay belongs to the WORLD, and the world is comprised of individual human beings who will use it.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:33:11 PM
Hold on, Hold on...
As much as I loved to sell on eBay, the fee hike couldn't have come at a worst time.
Yahoo decides to put fee's in their auctions. The only worthy competitor to eBay decides to stab themseleves in the foot. As if their Banner Ads and Live Broadcasts weren't enough revenue?
The USPS get's their Postage Hike approved (But not what THEY wanted), but then "graduallly" delivers crappy service, very bad deliveries, and ammounting horror stories. Likewise, FedEx and UPS raise their fees too.
Wouldn't it make more business sense to say...oh, I don't know...LOWER FEES...to attarct the "defecting" Yahoo Sellers and to keep the Sellers happy, and maybe get more new sellers to come in??
I know, it's a two-edged sword, with either eBay getting the demand real fast and showing a massive profit (and knocking out their servers in the process, but that's another story...), or losing money real fast.
That was my Seller persona, now my Bidder persona.....
My biggest concern as a bidder is that with the new fees, I feel that the seller might knock me with the fees with their prices. And let's not forget the "decietful" sellers, and the crappy CS.
Also, what would warrant eBay to have a price increase when they can't keep it up most of the time?? When I can't bid because of an outage, they loose my faith and my bids.
Their "improvements" is nothing more that whistles and banners. Or, bailing wire and bubble gum. Doesn't impress this buyer.
And, what about some sellers? What about the problems that I have?
Don't get me started on the blatant violations that eBay has; I could report them to the FBI, FTC, Secret Service, and the ATF all in one swoop.
Face it, I share the same anger as many others. Just, I come from both sides of the fence.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:36:50 PM
Radh, I am one person. I work out of my home. My sold auctions in relation to my completed auctions over the past 30 days was 96% of all auctions listed. My rate for the year 2000 was 98%. Obviously, my customers don't find me boring.
Darcy: YOU are a human being, and therefore, cannot possibly be b-0-r-i-n-g. It is your inherent nature as a human being to be fascinating!!!
eBay is comprised of BIG-B2c, currently. It is no longer primarily comprised of fascinating humanbeings, but rather the 5% of BIG-B listers who account for 85+% of all revenue.
eBay is d-u-l-l.
The ambiance of eBay is b-0-r-i-n-G!!
However, eBay will go full circle back to its beginnings, it's just a matter of time.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:52:04 PMThe ambiance of eBay s-t-i-n-k-s. (Sorry to my friends at eBay, however, that is NOT a 'value judgment', nor a condemnation - just a FACT.)
Really? Just a FACT? The fact that I do not find that the ambience of eBay stinks and that I do not think that eBay is boring must mean that I am doing it wrong, I suppose.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:56:38 PM
Why am I getting the idea that "small sellers" are thought of (by a few folks) as "basement" sellers, or people who offer "low class" items because they dont have a wholesaler, or list hundreds of items they purchased to resell that are "new", or any other of the "flea market" ilk? It isnt what "small sellers" offer...its the concept of taking what STARTED ebay out of the picture and now saying "oh well, you served your purpose, so now take a hike. We want to attract bigger fish, and you are too small". And to presume that none of it isnt the landlords fault is ludicrous. Yes, business is business, but I refuse to accept that I have to take what I hace PAID for via rent as all MY fault. Humph.
posted on January 25, 2001 02:58:05 PMdarcyw: Interesting analogy. Here's one in response:
A property owner notices how hard it is for local artists and craftsmen to rent space in the city to sell their wares. So, he decides to convert a large, disused warehouse into "low income" rental property so these people can set up shops and not have to worry about the overhead. He's not worried about making tons of money from the rent -- he just thinks it would be pretty nifty if a whole bunch of creative people could get together under one roof and sell their stuff to each other and to the public.
The idea is an immediate success -- artists and craftsmen come streaming in and spend a lot of their own time and money fixing the place up, painting the walls, etc. They know they don't "own" the space they rent, but they do feel a sense of pride in what they have helped build. And the owner of the mall encourages this attitude, telling the renters that they are all part of a big "community".
Over time, retail stores start renting space in this new mall as well, attracted by the low rents. The owner, you see, never actually said that ONLY artists and craftsmen could rent. Everybody just ASSUMED that was the case. The individual sellers aren't particularly happy, but as long as the rent stays low and they aren't forced out, they can live side by side with the retailers. And everything is still pretty great, with everybody chipping in to make it a better place and keep it growing.
Unfortunately, the retailers bring with them their own set of problems. Parking becomes non-existent. Power consumption triples and then quadruples. Things get really crowded all the time, and sometimes people can't get into the mall at all. And then the retailers start complaining about the level of service they are getting from the owner.
Well, one day the owner of the building decides he can't handle managing the property all by himself, so he sells it to a large real estate company in town. The real estate company sees how many retailers are in the mall paying such small rents, so they decide to start raising the rents a bit at a time. the individual sellers complain, but the new owneers kepp telling them that the increased rents are necessary to pay for "improvements" around the building. That new water fountain we installed costs money, you see. And what about the new carpeting we installed in the hallways? In truth, though, the new owners don't care about the individual sellers AT ALL. In fact, they really wish they'd all just leave so they can REALLY jack up the rent on those tenants whom they know can afford to pay it. So they just keep raising the rent a bit at a time ["it's only $100"] until most of the original sellers -- the ones who made the whole thing work in the first place -- leave in disgust.
As the last of the origianl tenants leaves, he hears the owner of one of the mall's three Starbucks exclaim "I can't understand why those people are so upset! It's just business, and its not like the original owner ever PROMISED these people anything. Heck -- I'm still paying half what I would pay elsewhere to rent a space like this, and I don't have a problem with the owner raising the rent a bit! If those 'artists' can't run a successful buisness selling their artwork, they should do what I did and open a coffee franchise or stop complaining."
And that last artists simply shakes his head, knowing that it was never about "running a business" and it never was, and that that the retailers will just never understand that point no matter how many times they are told.
How's that?
Barry
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
[ edited by godzillatemple on Jan 25, 2001 03:09 PM ]
posted on January 25, 2001 02:59:15 PM
I used to have a nice landlord. He wasn't perfect but we managed to get along okay. Bit by bit he started to do things "differently" under the guise of improving the property. But he didn't really know what he was doing, and gradually the place started to go downhill. One day I woke up to the fact that my landlord was actually a slum landlord. Since I wasn't comfortable living in a slum, I moved.
Edited to add: Hi Barry! Looks like our posts were rocketing through cyberspace about the same time. I like your story better
posted on January 25, 2001 03:12:02 PM
Barry, I think Im in love with you
That was EXACTly what I was trying to convey and how my feelings are involved (yes, business owners CAN have them and still be professional). I resent the presumption I am getting, that somehow its MY fault that Im not making it. It isnt, and I refuse to think it is. THANK YOU again for saying that so well
posted on January 25, 2001 03:14:20 PM
Barry, the scenario you described is accurate. You can pick up any book that discusses the history of urban planning to read about equivalent situations. However, the fact remains that if the small artist wants to be part of the competitive marketplace, the artist either adapts and evolves to the marketplace or moves on. You will find that scenario discussed in the history of urban planning book also. The artist can learn from history, from what has already occurred, and thus plan for the future.
eBay is filled with small one-person sellers making a nice living. I am only one example. I choose to spend my energy adapting to my selling environment and meeting my customers' needs instead of being upset over business decisions eBay makes. I think eBay's fee increases are reasonable. Part of my business strategy has always been to anticipate higher costs and to plan accordingly.
posted on January 25, 2001 03:19:30 PM
w@w, BarrY! U r onna roLL!!
i particularly like the part that goes, "In fact, they really wish they'd all just leave so they can REALLY jack up the rent on those tenants whom they know can afford to pay it. So they just keep raising the rent a bit at a time ["it's only $100"] until most of the original sellers -- the ones who made the whole thing work in the first place -- leave in disgust."
we gotta make sure that pierre omidyar is aware of the existence of this messagethread -- pierre was absolutely FASCINATED with the community that WAS the foundation of eBay.
i think he'd be really interested in this thread, if for no other reason, just the shEEr nostalgia.
I'm sorry to hear that sales are down for you. My sales are still doing about the same as they always have, no BIG complaints here. The one thing I've noticed over the years is that you have to be constantly re-evaluating your merchandise.
There was a time [way back when] when I was one of the only sellers on eBay moving a certain item. What used to involve a search that picked up a "few" items [mostly mine], now invloves pages of the same item. [which I seldom sell now]
It's a buyers market on eBay these days. Unless your item is VERY unique, or dare I use the word *rare*, chances are you're not going to get near the $$$ that you did 2 yrs ago. Supply & demand. As much as it may hurt to hear those 2 words, that's the reality.
Radh may find eBay b-0-r-i-n-G!!, but I can assure you, many people do not. The market for "some" items is still VERY strong, with new blood [I mean buyers ] coming into eBay every week.
Barry has been complaining about the bulk loaders since this time last year, so his comments certainly come as no big surprise to me. YES, it can be a pain in the azz wading through endless amounts of non collectible widgets, but that's what search is for. If you're looking for sleepers you have to work a bit harder these days.
IMHO selling on eBay has always come down to knowing what sells, and what doesn't, and making sure you list what does consistently sell.
It seems some sellers are still doing very well, and I haven't noticed thousands of disgruntled buyers leaving either. Trust me, if the things I sell were going for peanuts on eBay, I'd be buying plenty more than I do. I hardly ever seem to be find those bargain basement sleepers, at least not on eBay.
reddeer: the AMBIANCE of eBay is not merely b-0-r-i-n-G!! but is almost as abjectly repugnant as the rest the Net, currently.
AMBIANCE does NOT mean that quality items, rare or not can or cannot fetch prices.
SALES have nothing to do with ***ambience***, and the ARTIST'S COLONY referred to by Barry is more than a liddle widdle bit MORE contributive to the marvelous ambience of years PAST, g0ne, than S-A-L-E-S.
AMBIENCE = things like $kippikins and the arty bohemians having all night chats, which occured whilst people were still paying alla the bills and conducting successful eBizzes.
... I'm a landlord. We have several nice 3 bedroom 2&1/2 bath townhouses at the beach. We go up on the rent whenever we CAN.