posted on January 29, 2001 12:19:38 PMI have NO interest in the formation of a supposed cooperative which is simply another venue for the big megalisters
Why don't we all post a list of those that we think should be excluded from the site.
Exclusion list so far:
-Anyone above the level of "microbusiness"
-Sellers who use excessive "baby talk"
I suspect that we will all make the list eventually.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:20:44 PM
I'm very interested but the budding lawywer in me would like to see more details such as structure, state of incorporation, etc.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:38:24 PM
Wait a minute, Radh speaks for a LOT of people who share the same views. Let's all cool it. I posted this yesterday: we're going to have to work with people whose views we disagree with. Remember, everything is decided by the membership - not the officers, and not us. Think of this as an exercise in people skills. And I guarantee, you do NOT want to see Radh on a bad day!!
I have started a new messagethread for all the posters who are interested in the formation of a BIG Cooperative, which accepts the MEGA-listers.
This messagethread is entitled, "Who's *in* for the forming of a cute liddle co-op?
This implies, WHO is interested in a cute liddle cooperative which seriously and solely concentrates upon I-N-D-I-V-D-U-A-L-S, be they Hobby Sellers, Microbusinesses, or Sole Proprietors.
This messagethread has NOTHING to do with the creation of some gargantuan website meant to crush eBay.
In my mind, eBay is invincible.
eBay is UNSTOPPABLE, and eBay is UNCRUSHABLE.
NOW, to get back on topic, I intially posted on January 28, 2001 at 07:07:47 PM:
Who's *in* for the forming of a cute liddle co-op?
If you're interested state YES; then give a date you'd prefer the $100 dues be remitted; and share what you want for the LAUNCH DATE.
More is to come. What we will be proposing is that over a period of approximately 30 days sellers pay an initiation fee of $100.00 that will be held in trust to create a seller co-op online selling site.
At the end of the 30 days those who have sent in their funds will be able to vote and ratify what the original organising comittee comes up with.
Right now we're trying to put together a group of 8-12 people to come up with the mission statement and bylaws/constitution of the co-op.
If the 30 day group comes to an agreement we would then go to step two which would be to break into sub-comittees to work out the budget, structure, and functions of the co-op with a goal of coming on line in 3-6 months. If the group fails all funds would be returned with whatever interest is gathered.
I know it sounds easy and I'm sure it will be insane and perhaps never get off the ground.
But if we don't take the first steps nothing will happen.
In the interim we're sifting through ideas and talking to each other. Please check out twinsoft's message boards.
The basic idea is to create a non-profit auction house that is all inclusive but driven by sellers/bidders who want a say in its direction. One member, one vote. No special exclusions or favors.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:51:32 PM
Before I invest any of my time or money, I want to know if I will be excluded.
Apparently, the only people who are going to be welcome on this site (or at least who is welcome in this thread) are those who are interested in developing "a cute liddle site". I'm not.
I'm interested in developing a venue to expand my business and reduce my reliance on Ebay. This isn't a game to me, and it looks like I'm just wasting my time here.
Jamie: A number of INDIVIDUALS have already stated that they prefer an April 1st date to submit the initial $100.
Could you kindly start your OWN messagethread?
I am NOT interested in ANY group of a couple dozen people who can pop the hundred bucks onna~dime appropriating the idea of a cute *liddle* cooperative which is solelySELLER-owned, SELLER-run and who's SOLE focusis on the INDIVIDUAL, plenty of whom havestated that they will be ready to participateboth financially and timewise sometime in April.
Thank YOU for your ANTICIPATED cooperation.
Now, to get back ON TOPIC, I repeat the above post:
Hi.
I have started a new messagethread for all the posters who are interested in the formation of a BIG Cooperative, which accepts the MEGA-listers.
This messagethread is entitled, "Who's *in* for the forming of a cute liddle co-op?
This implies, WHO is interested in a cute liddle cooperative which seriously and solely concentrates upon I-N-D-I-V-D-U-A-L-S, be they Hobby Sellers, Microbusinesses, or Sole Proprietors.
This messagethread has NOTHING to do with the creation of some gargantuan website meant to crush eBay.
In my mind, eBay is invincible.
eBay is UNSTOPPABLE, and eBay is UNCRUSHABLE.
NOW, to get back on topic, I intially posted on January 28, 2001 at 07:07:47 PM:
Who's *in* for the forming of a cute liddle co-op?
If you're interested state YES; then give a date you'd prefer the $100 dues be remitted; and share what you want for the LAUNCH DATE.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:53:54 PM
Hi amalgamated2000,
I think that was radh being cute. The group that's forming so far wants this to be a very real alternative to ebay that will be a stable platform for ALL sellers to be able to work from. Read through the thread and you'll see. You can also go to twinsoft's message board.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:57:19 PM
Radh:posted on January 29, 2001 12:12:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jim: If you click on my name, it will take you to a page where it states: IGNORE ALL MESSAGE CENTER POSTS, (or some such.)
It's a marvelous feature!
I suggest you utilize it!
Perhaps you should think about why this comment was suggested to you?? We all want input, yours and everyone elses. But some of us are taking this seriously.
If you don't believe in it or don't want to participate that's your choice, but I for one would prefer you to partipate in the disucssion than have to click the ignore button??
I won't speak for anyone else but perhaps taking this seriously either way would help us all a bit more??
posted on January 29, 2001 01:01:59 PMI think that was radh being cute.
I don't think that repeating a post 3 times is being cute. I think that it is an attempt to make a point. And that point is that any entity beyond the level of an individual is not welcome.
That's fine, if that's the way that you want to play it. But I just don't want to invest a lot of time in this only to, at some point in the future, find out that I will be excluded. And, really, who in their right mind would?
I understand that radh doesn't speak for everyone, but I have not seen any other oppostition to the idea that this site should be limited to individuals only.
And, really, once you start excluding people, where does it end? If an individual starts making too much money on the site, are the no longer consider "iddy biddy" and subject to being booted?
WHICH individuals out there are seriously interested in the formation of a SELLER-run, SELLER-owned COOPERATIVE online marketplace which focuses SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY upon I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L-S, be they Hobby Sellers, Microbusinesses, or Sole Proprietors.
A venture in which there is an ABSOLUTE ABSENCE of the megalistingmultinationalconglomerate corporations?
If you are interested in such an idea, and believe that you'd have time and financial wherewithall sometime in April to discuss this online somewhere with ALL the other Netizens who may be interested in same, then, IF you feel comfortable posting in public, please do.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:07:39 PM
Could someone post twinsoft's message board url - if I missed it, could you post it again? There are so many questions I have, that I would like to have a live chat somewhere concerning this issue. Could someone set it up? I would love it if, in some way, auctionwatch could host the co-op. There would be plenty of exposure and a built-in user base on this site.
I am willing to help set up the co-op, help write a mission statement, and help set up ground rules since I am retiring from my RL teaching job in Feb. and will have time to devote to getting this off the ground.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:12:55 PM
Oh yes, one of my sons is a very well respected net security expert, and the other one is a software engineer (debugger and troubleshooter). I am sure that I could get them involved if we need them.
Susan (swoose on eBay)
[email protected]
posted on January 29, 2001 01:14:36 PMWHICH individuals out there are seriously interested in the formation of a SELLER-run, SELLER-owned COOPERATIVE online marketplace which focuses SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY upon I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L-S,
Unless I see some serious disagreement with this, I'm outta here. My business is certainly not large. In fact, it's barely beyond the individual level. But it's growing. So apparently I am not welcome.
I would seriously caution anyone who has any desire to expand their business to be very wary if this is the way this thing is heading. It sounds to me like you might put in a lot of hard work, and then as a reward for your success, you will be booted from the site you helped develop if your business grows beyond the "individual" level.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:16:39 PM
I've got to run and I'll be out the rest of the day. I want to make one try here at making peace. Radh, the big dealers on eBay have a LOT to gain from a co-operative. Their interest is completely natural. They are looking at saving thousands of dollars per month and they want to make sure they are protected too. Don't let yourself be intimidated.
Look, the corporation is like a suit of armor that we put on. The form and shape is already there, we just wear it like a suit of clothes. We are not going to invent a "for-profit cooperative," there's no need to worry about that. We may have to bring in a few experts temporarily but the co-op will be essentially member-driven.
Please don't think that the people who are willing to put up early finances are in any way buying a greater say in the structure or operations of a cooperative auction sellers site. On the contrary, they are volunteering to do the dirty work.
The benefits are there, but there is more to it than paying $50 to save $200. Each member of the co-op must contribute their own time and personal effort. There is no such thing as a free lunch! Keep throwing the ideas around.
I'm against fees right now, and I also don't want to propose any launch date. I'm encouraged by the outpouring of support here, both time and money, so I'm happy the way things are going. Regarding a planning committee, it is probably the single most important factor in an efficient, painless start. Let's make sure we have the planners we need securely on board before we do anything else. A business expert is badly needed and I don't see one yet. The more expertise we can assemble of every kind, the better for all of us.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:17:53 PM
amalgamated2000: I have difficulty imagining you among the megamultinationalconglomeratecorporations, but if this is your business plan, I wish you well, and good luck with executing it.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:24:47 PMI have difficulty imagining you among the megamultinationalconglomeratecorporations
That's certainly true. As I said, I am barely beyond the level of "individual". But I do have employees, and will have more as time passes. You have made it abundantly clear that only individuals are welcome in your version of the cooperative.
I see tremendous problems with that, particularly the arbitrary ability to boot off successful sellers because they have exceeded whatever your definition of "individual" might be.
Moreover, I have a problem with the whole idea of excluding people in general. Where does it stop? How would anyone ever know that they are not wasting their time if they can be arbitrarily excluded at any time.
If that's the kind of site you envision, have at it. No hard feelings. It's just not something I want to be a part of, and really, I can't imagine why anyone else would want to, either.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:26:10 PM
twinsoft, Jamie
Just my opinion, take it or leave it. I don't want to get into a long debate on this issue.
It is too early to ask for money. It cost little or no money to hammer out the charter and business plan. People willing to contribute their time, knowledge, and experience is more important than money at this stage. No matter how much you attempt to include everyone, some will be turned off by the money and not participate. It doesn't have anything to do with commitment. Many people just are not rational when money is involved. You risk loosing people that could be the ones the come up with some of the bright ideas that are what makes the venture successful and those who would come with a casual interest and then get enthusiastic enough to volunteer their efforts.
I think an interest in an alternative ebay has already been demonstrated by the participation in Gold's and other auction sites. Granted, many were not successful but a co-op model where the sellers have some real control may be what it takes to get more enthusiastic participation that could make it a success.
As said before, sending $100 doesn't necessarily mean anything more than the person thinks this is a good idea and worth a contribution. It isn't a commitment to list x% of their auctions and do whatever else it takes to make the venture a success.
Starting this type of venture takes a strong commitment from a few dedicated people who believe it will work. It is prudent to do some market research to determine the scale and nature of the initial site but the only true test is to start the venture and see if it works.
The organization will need to raise money at some point. It will be much easier to do that when the charter and business plan are finished.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:27:59 PM
Amalgamated;
Please stay involved for a bit longer. My personal view is that there amy well be developments in this process that would justify ones abandoning it based on their own business needs. And there may well be developments that cause one to embrace the project wholeheartedly.
But it is too soon to make that determination.
On this and the original thread I have seen ideas I strongly agree with, and thoise I strongly disagree with.
There will have to be compromises made. After those compromises are made is perhaps a better time to decide if this is worth your time, effort, and money.
Continuing involvement will play a large factor in how those compromises shake out.
The real achievement would be to make everyone think this is worthwhile.
posted on January 29, 2001 01:33:05 PM
I cant put my finger on it, but it already seems exclusionary. Names are being bandied about and I havent seen those particular posters even answer in any of the threads, or post themselves. It all looks very confusing so far....and aimed at particular people to be "commity members". For some reason, that phrase gives me bad vibes.
The nature of a co-op is anything *but* exclusionary! On the contrary, the democratic nature of co-ops combined with lower costs makes them MORE open to involvement by sellers of all sorts.
The only "exclusionary" mentions I've seen in these threads is radh's sentiments regarding "conglomerates."
I have deleted two of your posts as they contained the url to another Message Board. You may discuss competitive services however you cannot provide a link or the url. Please do not post it again.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Linda
Moderator
(edit = typo)
[ edited by LindaAW on Jan 29, 2001 01:55 PM ]
posted on January 29, 2001 01:58:45 PM
Dont pay 'tention to me....Im just voicing out loud my confusion, and scratching my head behind the monitor with the "huh?" look on my face
Hand me some property to manage and I can do wonders. Show me some ethnic merchandise and tell me to sell it and I can kick butt, given the "location location location" said merchandise is to be displayed. Lets just say Im reading all this, and trying to understand it, while at the same time, attempting to ignore said bad vibes (not necessarily from posters...but from my own end..which is my problem, not theirs).
amal2000: Some time ago, a biz magazine ran a fascinating article about Microbusinesses. It is my contention that such microbusinesses are run by INDIVIDUALS, who when they hire employees, specifically hire only other INDIVIDUALS, and treat them with the respect due the same.
I am ABSOLUTELY IMPERVIOUS to any attempts to denigrate 0R shame 0R seek to humiliate me, for specifically stating that I have NO INTEREST, none whatsoever, in ANY gargantuan website open to the megalistermultinationalconglomerateKorporations.
NONE.
And I fail to see why this is of ANY concern, much less the numerous posts that have resulted.
