posted on September 30, 2010 08:26:26 AM new
The biggest misconception of "conservatism" is the idea that conservatives conserve anything. Conservatism/Libertarianism is no better than communism in its purist form.
Both systems can work, but only in a very small group. Once you push this ideology beyond a handful of participants, there will ALWAYS be someone to take advantage of the system. You will have the lazy, welfare recipient who takes advantage of the free handout and on the other hand you will have the so called conservative who will be greedy and want everyone to follow the rules of conservatism but themselves. Why is it that the welfare queen gets bashed more for taking a few hundred bucks a month, while the Corporatist gets away with stealing millions in the same period?
You can't have less government and more freedoms if you want to impose your laws onto other people. You can't claim that gay people have the same rights as everyone else while trying to prevent gays from having marriage rights. You can't scream your head off about less government and more liberties while pushing your anti-women rights laws including abortion and birth control. You're a hypocrite when you push for less government, but expect those roads, bridges, and ports to get your product to market so that you can make more money. You can't tell government to take a hike, but don't touch your Social Security or Medicare. You can't promote a small government and then wonder why you're sick from eating tainted food, or taking poorly tested medications b/c some corporation sent some lobbyist in to throw money around to get their pills to pass inspection.
The problem with conservative ideology is that it is slanted strictly towards the affluent... especially once all the infrastructure has been set up for them. You don't hear a libertarian willing to give up their investments into a corporation that took government handouts, used legal loopholes and protections (all government sponsored) to become a multi-national/multi-billion dollar profit machine that happens to pad the wallets of the "conservative libertarian". How convenient. It is amusing to hear Tea Party people rant and rave about the very things they want, but don't want to give up.
Whether you are on the right or left, I guarantee you that what MOST Americans want is:
1) Accountability and efficiency.
2) the two party in-fighting to end put Americans first instead of Party or campaign contributions.
3) our jobs to stay in America.
4) end to corporate money/influence in politics.
5) medical and insurance costs to decline.
6) safe food, safe products, safe drugs.
7) The ability to work your entire life and be able to receive Social Security, which is an insurance policy you invest in, NOT an entitlement.
8) Dependence from foreign energy.
9) The ability to safely and respectfully worship without prosecution of others.
10) Equal rights for ALL Americans.
Ironically, these things are brought to us by us... the government. It was Americans who created our government, it is controlled by us. Why do Conservatives always bash us???
How many people would be willing to try true Conservatism if we had to start all over and give up everything.
Everyone would have to give up what they have. No more corporations, no more investments, no more infrastructure, no more technology... NOTHING. It would be every man/woman for themselves. You would have to build your wealth by yourself. How many people would be willing to try that?
If you want true conservatism and spread your libertarian ideology, then you should move to Somalia where there is no government. See how quickly you're civil liberties and freedom to be wealthy will last in that type of atmosphere.
posted on October 1, 2010 12:45:32 PM new
things have changed already, people just don't want to give credit where credit is due.
We've seen major changes in the financial reform, health care reform, we've ended most combat in Iraq, the economy is starting to stabilize, higher education is more affordable, etc.
None of these changes are perfect, but they are a step forward. There does need to be more changes and I believe the most important is Campaign Finance reform.
If politicians want to see an attitude change towards Washington DC, they should completely eliminate corporate financing of campaigns, eliminate lobby money, eliminate PACS, tear apart NAFTA and start making corporations pay their share of taxes.
I guarantee you that there isn't one average American out there that would disagree with me on that. It is only the politicians, corporate lobbyists, corporate executives/upper management and the wealthy that want things to continue down the path they are on.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Oct 1, 2010 12:47 PM ]
posted on October 1, 2010 01:45:41 PM new
"We've seen major changes in the financial reform"
Absolutely none. As a matter of fact they bailed people they gave bad loans to and they can't pay the new ones either.
"health care reform"
Gone backwards. Ridiculous health program that guarantees poor care and forces employers to lay off people, cut benefits, etc.
"we've ended most combat in Iraq"
Yeah, they shot up most of the fuzzy wuzzies.
"the economy is starting to stabilize"
Absolutely laughable. It's getting worse every day, more unemployment, lower income, people jumping off bridges. My broker is still pushing gold. Only hope is this November.
"higher education is more affordable"
Again laughable. The 3-4 people I know with college age kids are worried about being able to to keep their kids in school with college loans being cut, double digit tuition increases, and declining income.
It is incredible how even today, people can be so detached from reality.
posted on October 1, 2010 02:21:21 PM new"We've seen major changes in the financial reform, health care reform, we've ended most combat in Iraq, the economy is starting to stabilize, higher education is more affordable, etc."
In one Seinfeld show, everything was the opposite of what normally was portrayed on the show - the complete opposite. Jerry and George called it a "bizzaro world."
Many times, while reading the posts here, I am left with the feeling that what I am reading is from the "bizzaro world."
posted on October 1, 2010 09:43:12 PM new
Who was it here that posted before the election that they went to an Obama speech and had tears in their eyes???
It's the only thing they got right. Every time he opens his mouth, I get tears in my eyes too.
Don't want to crow, but if you read my old posts from before the election and more, the level of my clairvoyance exceeds Nostradamus.
The economy is doing SO well that there is a headline on Tom's Hardware:
Gold-dispensing ATMs Coming to U.S. this Year.
They'll be chanting praises and pushing wheelbarrows of "Obama bux" to the food store.
posted on October 2, 2010 05:08:44 PM new
obviously, there will always be naysayers who no matter what is done will pretend that things are moving backwards. it is the typical mantra of the right wingers to cast those shadows... but there are those of us who know better. we see straight through the tactics of "no you can't". the only thing holding this country back are the republicans.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Oct 2, 2010 06:29 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2010 05:59:01 PM new
Health care (2010 til 2014):
- Children are now covered under SCHIP, something that Republicans said NO to.
- Insurers can no longer purge you when you become ill or need extensive care.
- Insurers can no longer put life time limits on coverage.
- Children can be covered until they are 26 if the parents elect to do so under their insurance.
- Coverage expands to cover nearly 95% of Americans, subsidies will be in place for income
- No more Pre-existing conditions.
- Cheaper prescriptions for Seniors.
- Subsidies for businesses and individuals based on their income level vs. the Poverty Level.
So, to say that there are no improvements to Health Care is simply a LIE... but that is exactly what Republicans do... THEY LIE.
The financial reform bill (what's the financial reform bill, you ask?) was passed in the Senate today and will head to President Barack Obama's desk next. The bill has split the country -- or that part of the country paying attention -- along party lines: Democrats say Wall Street needs to be reined in to protect the economy; Republicans say the government is overstepping its authority by inserting itself too far into the market. The bill drew three Republican votes, from Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts and Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine. Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin was the only Democrat to vote against the bill, saying it didn't go far enough.
A 60-39 vote and 2,300 pages later, only the future can tell us who was right and who was wrong. Surge Desk cuts through the financial language to provide you with the five changes in the bill that you need to know about.
1. The economy gets a new monitor, and failing firms a new undertaker.
Headed by the secretary of the treasury, the Financial Stability Oversight Council will watch for major risks in the overall economy and will have power to step in and dismantle failing firms that pose a "systemic risk," like Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch all did. Failing firms will no longer be bailed out with taxpayer money; instead they will be liquidated.
2. Consumers get a new watchdog.
A new consumer financial protection agency will be created to combat lending abuse. The agency will keep an eye on mortgage lenders and credit card companies and will put a cap on the fees debit card companies can charge retailers.
3. Stricter oversight of hedge funds, private equity firms and the derivatives market (which was at the heart of the subprime mortgage fallout) will be implemented.
4. Capital reserves will increase.
Large banks will have to increase the amount of capital they hold in reserve in the event loans go bad. The increased reserves will reduce their potential profits, but this rule won't go into effect for five years so as not to discourage lending now as the economy continues to recover.
5. We'll hear even more about the Volcker Rule.
Named for economist and former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, who proposed the original plan, the Volcker Rule limits a bank's ability to make speculative investments that don't benefit their customers to 3 percent of its capital. Speculative investments include investments in hedge funds and private-equity funds. Banks are also banned from proprietary trading, the risky practice of using their own money for trades instead of their customers' money.
--------------
Under Obama's watch:
1) Merchants can now offer lower costs on purchases for consumers who pay in cash.
2) Banks are now required to decline debit card purchases instead of allowing overdrafts (without OD protection) and charging account holders those outrageous NSF fees.
3) New limits on fees and interest charges.
4) Banks are required to deliver CC bills 21 days prior to the due date.
5) Banks cannot charge fees for rush payments.
6) Mortage companies cannot coerce or encourage real estate appraisers to misrepresent home values.
7) Mortgage brokers must credit payment on the date they were received, not wait days to process them.
8) Double-cycle billing is now banned.
9) Credit Card due dates must be the same each month... no more changing the billing date month to month.
10) Credit card companies cannot issue cards to people under 21 unless the have a co-signor or can show that they hold a job that allows them reasonable income to pay.
11) Gift Cards can no longer incur "non-use" fees for not using your card over a period of time.
there are more of these too... but my point has been made. There have been significant financial reforms to protect consumers. Those who say otherwise are LIARS and/or Republicans... who LIE.
posted on October 2, 2010 06:29:00 PM new
I know tons of business owners, and most say they have seen things stabilize over the course of the last 6 months... which is an improvement over the downward spiral that George Bush brought us at the end of his tenure.
As for the old GOP argument about debt and spending... I don't really want to hear it. It was the Republicans under the Bush Administration who squandered the surplus we had.
And to make my final point: The Trade Deficit under Obama has decreased!!!
posted on October 2, 2010 07:56:56 PM new
"The Pelosi-Reid Deficits
Blame Congress, not presidents Bush or Obama, for our perilous fiscal situation." Wall Street Journal 9/29/2010
"A strong case can be made that the people most responsible for the gigantic deficits we face today are neither George W. Bush nor Barack Obama. The real culprits are Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid."
"Congress controls the purse strings. When Mrs. Pelosi and Mr. Reid rose to their present jobs in January 2007, the deficit was $161 billion. It had been on a downward trajectory from $413 billion in 2004. Three years later, the Pelosi-Reid Congress had added $1.2 trillion to the deficit. "
All too frequently, I've read on this board that George Bush is responsible for the problems of this country. The Democrats are equally responsible for this mess.
posted on October 3, 2010 09:17:44 AM new
Since the beginning of American history, the United States of America has had debt. So, we can't pretend this is something new for our government.
But, if you want to go tit for tat, I offer the National Debt by President since the Great Depression where you CLEARLY see that under Democrats the National deficit overwhelmingly went down while under Republicans the deficit went up.
Under Democrats, the National debt decreased by 75.7%.
Under Republicans the debt increased by 43.7%.
In fact, this chart clearly illustrates that the debt went down under every single Democrat, while under Republicans it only went down under the two terms of Eisenhauer (the last good Republican President) and the first term of Nixon.
Republican want you to believe two myths...
1) Democrats increase the National Debt
2) Government spending increases the National Debt.
Both are simply not true.
Oh, and since you brought up George W Bush, I note that he was the worst president for our National Debt... racking up 27% increase in 8 years, and 20% just in his last 4 year term. Wasn't it that 4 year term that got us into this mess?
posted on October 3, 2010 10:30:23 AM new"But, if you want to go tit for tat, I offer the National Debt by President since the Great Depression where you CLEARLY see that under Democrats the National deficit overwhelmingly went down while under Republicans the deficit went up."
As I recall Congress controls the purse strings... Since there appears to be some concern with facts, why not inform us which political party was in control of Congress during those Presidential terms.
posted on October 3, 2010 11:04:13 AM new
Nice try Bill... but The White House creates the budget and Congress votes on it. They can amend it.
It is easy to make that argument when the trend is quite obviously skewed against Republican Presidents.
Now, to be fair, the budget doesn't generally affect the immediate year that it is passed, just as the tax rates over history don't affect the economy immediately.
The most obvious thing I see over history is that when there is a drop in the tax rates for the upper class, it is generally followed by Depressions and/or Recessions within a few years.
1921 the tax rate for the top tier was 73%. Over the following 8 years it dropped to 25%... obviously there was no economic growth during this period and it led to the Great Depression.
When FDR used Keynesian economic policies under the New Deal he increased US investments (expenditures) into infrastructure, created jobs, and raised top tax rates to 79%. Ironic that this helped the American economy. The opposition called him a Socialist... just like they do with Obama. FDRs New Deal turned the US economy around.
Under GW, he lowered the tax rates and within a few years we were in economic freefall again.
Do you find it a coincidence that Boehner wants a tax freeze for two years??? Gee, what is two years from now??? A Presidential election. How likely is it for anyone to, as Republicans like to say, "raise" taxes during a Presidential election season? The reality is that taxes have significantly dropped throughout history and the American economy has suffered.
posted on October 3, 2010 11:37:33 AM new
Shagmidmod: You're doing a great service with your posts here. Thanks much.
Profe: Evidently there's a new book out on Glenn Beck with the word "Clown" in the title. (Might be "The Tears of a Clown." Just saw a fleeting mention of it this morning on TV.
[ edited by roadsmith on Oct 3, 2010 11:37 AM ]
posted on October 3, 2010 12:31:04 PM new
What is the use of debating?
In the end,we all have to go,we all know that.
The ancient Egyptians said a person is composed of 7 elements-BA,KA,ANKH,SHADOW,NAME ,PHYSICAL BODY and I forget the last one.
When the KA which is also known as the double which retains all our memory and earthly personality and shape,leaves the physical body,the person dies.
The Ba dwells in the body and leave later,hence there is a tradition called 'Opening of the mouth' where a priest used a metal instrument to open the mouth of the mummy to let the BA escapes.
The Ba will join with the Ka and go to heaven.
But then it seems like the Ka does not want to go to heaven,it will come back and look for water and food and sometimes throw a big temper tendrum when there is nothing to eat.
Some Egyptians will carve out a room and separate entrance for the Ka in the mausoleum so the Ka can get in and out as he wishes,also will bring him offering of food.
Now in lieu of opening of the mouth with a metal instrument,the Voodoo believers will call the priest and he will capture the spirit with a bottle and seal it and keep it safe so no one can capture him and use him for misdeeds.
And then there is the Tibetan customs,they will summon a priest who will whisper into the ears of the deceased or shout certain words to make the spirit escape from the head or mouth or any opening of the body.
so think about it.
Well,think about it !
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 3, 2010 01:21:06 PM new
Here it goes
a man consisted of a physical body,a shadow,a double,a soul,a spirit called the khu,a power,a name and a spiritual body.
When the body dies,the shadow departed and could only be brought back to it by performance of a mystical ceremony.
The double lived in the tomb with the body and was viisted by the soul whose habitation is in heaven.
It is also believed unless the KA was supplied with ample food,it will wander away and eat any offal and drink any kind of dity water it finds in its path.
You can read all about it in The Encyclopedia of the Occult by Lewis Spence
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 3, 2010 03:30:57 PM new
Roadsmith - It is hard for conservatives to argue with the facts when presented to them.
The problem with the arguments made by Desquirrel and Bill is that they are nothing but opinions.
Even the article Bill referenced was an Editorial Opinion by a Conservative Economist that works for Rupert Murdochs Wall Street Journal. Talk about biased.
It clearly states his article is an opinion, not to mention that it is quite obvious it is a right winged opinion when you see the phrase, "It is no wonder that Americans are not eager to retain the services of these two spendthrifts as leaders of Congress."
posted on October 3, 2010 04:13:50 PM new
Thank goodness. For a minute there, I was thinking most people didn't know how good things are getting and might not vote for the Dems in November.
posted on October 3, 2010 04:56:46 PM new
If the Ka of the dems and the BA of the republicans can get together and go to heaven, we have a lot to be thankful for this thanksgiving.
I may even do the Voodoo dance and have some loa rides my body,the shrinks call it 'disassociation of the conscience' when the conscience is driven away and the unconscious rules.
you know how Freud loves to talk about it!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 3, 2010 05:03:07 PM new
It seems back in old old day the earth was almost destroyed and the tradition of birth,destruction and rebirth is remembered in different cultures-
The Indian workshipped panthon of gods and SHEVA is the god of destruction,he does the destruction dance with ring of fire,he is also the god of rebirth,by destroying the earth,then cometh rebirth.
The Tibetan also have a ritual of rebirth,a priest called out for a dakini to cut his body up in many pieces and then rebuild it back.
Some said it is based on the same belief as the ancient Eyptian where Osiris was brought back by his wife/sister IRIS to give birth to a son called Horus.
Some of you may recall Osiris was killed by his brother,he was cut up into pieces and scattered all over.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 3, 2010 05:06:12 PM new
And now we will proceed to more interesting discussion as to where do all these Osiris/IRIS/HORUS legendary noble figures come from?
Are they really Egytian or are they kings and queens of Atlantis,you know some believe Egypt was a colony of ATlantis!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 3, 2010 05:09:41 PM new
shagmidmod, I'm not a Conservative. At one time, I would have been considered a Progressive Democrat, perhaps just a Progressive. In fact, this old guy who returned to school in his 50s, is just fifteen years removed from a very liberal eastern education.
If I missed something that you have written, I apologize. If I have written something that offends you I apologize. Most times, I just quickly scan the verbage here, and since there is nothing, usually move on. However, there are times that I feel there is a need to correct the revision of current history.
posted on October 3, 2010 06:49:06 PM new
Bill, I do not take offense to anything anyone posts here. I was under the impression you were defending Republicans/Conservatives by posting the Op Ed about Reid/Pelosi.
I avoid using any Op Eds or Political "talk shows" as reference because they are most always slanted one direction or the other. This goes for both the left and right... whether it be Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, etc. I am willing to listen to both sides of an opinion from these examples, but I check my facts and do some digging to make my point.
Many moons ago I used to be a Conservative, but I saw the difference between the two and realized that Conservatism is like living in the dark ages. It may have worked better back in the 1700-late 1800's when your closest neighbor was a few miles away, but in a modern society where technology moves at such a rapid pace, it simply does not work.
Progressives ideology is just what it implies... it progresses. What was good yesterday doesn't necessarily mean it will work today. Progressives evolve and look for what works in the now.
Unfortunately, and I truly mean unfortunately, a modern society cannot trust a corporation to do what is in the best interest for the society it benefits from. I wish we could put that trust out there, but the reality of the world is that there will ALWAYS be an opportunist around the corner ready to pounce whether intentional or not.
The whole purpose of a corporation is to make money. You can NEVER trust that a corporation that answers to stockholders will do what is right and this is where government oversight comes in. The Government (aka the People) want to be able to inspect their food, regulate medications, regulate the banks from stealing from us, prevent pollution, etc. Time and time again, it is the Republicans who step in the way of this with their, "less government regulation" ideology. They pretend that the free market will regulate itself... as if that would ever happen. They pretend that lowering taxes will create jobs. When has that ever happened in the history of the United States? It may be sprinkled here and there, but on a broad scale it simply does not happen. If my business profits doubled, we would not likely hire another person. We would simply increase our income. Trickle down economics is a joke.
What I find most amusing about Conservatives is that none are willing to give up their social security check when it comes in the mail, or give up their medicare. They want what they want only... and nobody else should have anything else.
Libertarians want a minimal government... but they still want a government. They just want to dictate what they want to spend the money on... and that is the point I have been trying to make all along. It is about who controls the money and where it goes.
