We have been talking about this COOP for several weeks now.
There is a need for a Seller's COOP.
There is a desire for one.
We have been contacted by a few hundred people who are interested in seeing the COOP auction become a reality. We need a fact-finding group NOW. This FACT-FINDING group needs a cross section of people. We have said this before- we need tech people who know about softwear,hardware, and hosts and can tell a bad deal from a good one based on the tech knowledge they have.
We need people who have administrative expertise to find out what we need to
run a COOP and auction and to see just what we even need in a budget. We need people familiar with COOPs or similar organizations to add their judgement on burocracies and methds.
This is a FACT-FINDING GROUP they will report their findings to the Potential
COOP membership .
Then the Membership will VOTE on a Committee to analyse the advice, solidify
bylaws, recommend auction requirements and then present their findings to the
Membership to be ratified. First the Bylaws- because that is what makes the base of the COOP and then the other things- auction- perks-- whatever.ALL must be VOTED on by a Membership. The Committee as a group or any individual can NOT act on their own once the BYLAWS and COOP are in place.
Who is the membership?? Ahh- here is the crux of the matter. Let me say first that
this is a Member Only group. Who can become a member? - any individual that can show that they are an active auction seller or bidder at this point.
This first voting group is Very Powerful- because they will be the Charter
Members and vote on all of the COOP basic stands. There has to be a cut off date for initial membership because there has to be a meeting set to hear the FACT-FINDING GROUP'S reeport, vote for The Committee and meeting date. What is the easiest way to do
this? Maybe a registration email. Those registered members ONLY will be eligible
for voting .
First-the FactFinding group must be formed. Then get a membership and elect a
committee. Get the COOP started - then move to the auction. These are the recommended steps.
We have contacted various Co-op Associations and Agencies and are waiting for replies.Now we need pople to fact find intellegently and WORK TOGETHER.
Volunteers are Needed Yesterday. We need sincere sellers who will put in a good
week or two into factfinding in their area and will report to the membership at an
open meeting once that membership is established.
posted on February 13, 2001 12:31:13 AM new
I originally posted this in the alt.marketing.online.ebay newsgroup, but figure it's relevant here too. I have no idea how the formatting is going to look; please forgive any oddities.
As much as I like the idea of a co-op auction site in theory, I haven't seen
any discussion that I would characterize as "serious". $50,000 to $100,000
in starting capital sounds like a drop in the bucket to me. (Anyone know
how much venture capital eBay had before they went public?) Starting small
just isn't a strategy that is going to work for a general purpose auction
site, IMO, and the collapse of Gold's demonstrated that enthusiasm is not a
substitute for numbers.
"eBay needs competition to keep it in line" has not been enough to motivate
sellers to list at other sites in sufficient numbers, even though
competition would be in the sellers' long term interests; neither will
"we're in charge of this site's policies". Sellers are going to list where
the bidders are right now, rather than listing strategically to protect
their position for the next decade.
So.....the question in my mind is......what would a co-op offer to attract
the bidders away from eBay? If they're talking $50-$100K starting capital,
it's not going to be site stability, customer service personnel, or quantity
of merchandise. Since they're talking about a general auction site, it's
not going to be depth or quality of merchandise in a particular area. And
since they seem to be trying to make everyone happy, it's not going to be
any sort of standardized policies that buyers can rely on no matter which
seller they deal with.
IMO, the only way a co-op is going to work is (1) think a lot bigger, or (2)
do something *dramatically* different from eBay, either in terms of
specialization or requirements placed on sellers.
I also think the co-op planners are doing things ass-backwards in developing
a business concept. It looks like they started out asking what sellers (who
will be their primary members) want in an auction site -- low fees, etc.
IMO they should have first asked what *buyers* want in an auction site, and
what it would take to get them to move from eBay. Then turn that into a
concept paper, and ask how many sellers are willing to invest in that
concept. And they need to be willing to tell the sellers who aren't
interested in providing what the bidders want to stay at eBay. Low fees are
not going to keep sellers in a co-op; lots of enthusiastic bidders will.
Judging from the bidder/buyer complaints I see frequently, I wonder whether
an auction site could succeed if it required its sellers to:
* Guarantee the accuracy of all descriptions, with a back-up money-back
guarantee from the co-op itself
* Guarantee safe arrival of all merchandise, through insurance or otherwise
* Use no music, bizarre backgrounds, or moving graphics in their listings
* Ship internationally, unless prohibited by law
* Clearly explain in their listings how the shipping & handling will be
calculated, with either a dollar amount or a formula, and indicate whether
multiple items will be combined for reduced shipping cost.
* Provide a method for accepting credit card payments at no extra cost to
the buyer (i.e. Bidpay doesn't count)
* Refrain from using any word containing "@" in the auction title (no L@@K W@W etc.)
* Etc. (I'm sure I could find a few more in the "I won't bid if...."
thread.)
Perhaps a site which offered "no hassles, no music, no unpleasant surprises"
for buyers would be different enough from eBay to draw a critical mass of
bidders. Of course, it could be that these restrictions would prevent the
co-op from attracting a critical mass of sellers. Given the "Don't Tread on
Me" philosophy that seems to prevail among online auction sellers, it could
be that even the customer-centered sellers wouldn't sign up for a co-op that
required them to do what they already do by choice.
OTOH, if this concept were accepted by a critical mass of sellers, pulling
the customer-oriented small to mid-size sellers away from eBay, and leaving
eBay with the scam artists, incompetent sellers, and unpleasant jerks, I
could see the new site becoming very successful and eBay's reputation
worsening with time.
I've been a member, officer, and director of several co-ops, , and
participated in one successful and several unsuccessful attempts to found
co-ops (most recently an attempt at forming an antique mall co-op). So I'm
certainly not biased against co-operatives; I'm just not impressed with
anything I've seen from this one.
posted on February 13, 2001 02:05:08 AM new
books - have you decided not to participate in the co-op? Sounds like you have a lot of experience and some good advice to offer, even if it was just to answer some questions or be a sounding board.
I think we're all concerned about getting the buyers there. I know the enthusiasm there was with Golds, and it still didn't work. The large percentage here and the other boards are mostly sellers. It's hard to get our buyers to look at the boards with out being accused of spamming. But, I'm trying to tell as many people as I can to at least go and read some of what is being talked about (hopeing they might contribute to the discussions).
posted on February 13, 2001 02:30:46 AM new
I haven't made a decision one way or the other; I'm just commenting on what I've seen so far. And I'm certainly willing to engage in discussions with anyone about the proposals/platforms/etc.
IMO, "we're a co-op" is not going to be enough to distinguish this proposed site from Bidville, Gold's, Populi, Pootah, and all the other undercapitalized minor auction sites that don't generate income for sellers and don't put a dent in eBay's monopoly. The only buyers who will care whether they're bidding on a co-op site or a corporate site are the 2% of the population that voted for Ralph Nader (and their international equivalents). Everyone else is going to decide based on price, service, and selection.
This is not to say that the ownership structure isn't important. Being a co-op means being able to put quality service above profit, giving the site the freedom to offer a more attractive deal for sellers & buyers than its corporate competitors.
My bottom line: The co-op needs to come up with a way to distinguish itself as a business, not just by its ownership structure. There are lots of ways to do that; my "no hassles/no unpleasant surprises" approach is only one possibility.
If I see a viable business plan, with an exciting and distinctive approach to attracting buyers, I'll participate. If I see another Gold's/Bidville/etc., indistinguishable by anything other than ownership structure, I'll pass.
posted on February 13, 2001 06:09:35 AM new
booksbooksbooks: I agree with you. I haven't seen much talk about what buyers want, everything is focused on the sellers. Well you know the buyers could care less what problems the sellers have. The buyers are going to go where they always go, ebay.
Think about this...Yahoo tried and failed, Amazon tried and failed, and countless other smaller sites have tried and failed. So what will make a small startup successful? A unique idea is needed that hasn't already been tried and run in the ground. Just another auction site isn't going to make it.
I read in another thread about fees. A membership fee, listing fees, and selling fees. How can you even attract the sellers with so many fees? I thought the endless amount of fees was the original reason the co-op talk got started.
From day one I have felt that this whole venture needed to be put together as business plan.We are all business owners who are being asked to make a business decision about a COOP.It should be an INFORMED business decision.We can only get the info if we find it ourselves or can find people willing to share what they know.As an example-I went out on the net and can quote Host prices- but what they are really offering is beyond my non-tech mind. I need a techie to look, analyze and explain.
There can be no COOP auction unless a COOP is founded. None can be founded unless people are willing to WORK on doing just that.
I also agree 100% that there has to be something that is different enough about the proposed site that bidders will be attracted and stay.I PERSONALLY like your suggestions.But this is a voting organization- one seller-one vote.Hopefully the Committee, once it is formed, will be able to look at this in a rational way and hammer out a viable, attractive auction that will be a winner for both sellers and buyers.
Because we are independant owners of businesses and by the most part just independant people this will be a difficult venture to organize. Not everyone will be 100% pleased with what this may actually end up being. But they will hopefully look at what is set down and from the business standpoint of profit for themselves rather than an emotional one of "if he said it I won't agree".If they can't then they are better off not joining.This is a group that has to be founded on the tenet of the Greater Good first- what's best for me being a close second.There will be a lot of compromises- hopefully livable ones.
You have some well thought out, concrete ideas.
Got some extra time to work on this as a factfinder? With your COOP background at least you have an idea of what is necessary at this point.
TO ALL OF YOU- Anyone willing to treat this as a business venture and help? We ALL need your expertise.
posted on February 13, 2001 06:54:58 AM new
BUYERS- You want a say in what goes into an auction site? Do I hear anyone volunteering to help on a factfinding committee??
posted on February 13, 2001 07:25:56 AM new
I have made my statement here as to what I, as a buyer, would like to see in an auction site. And one or two others have also made statements.
I am as a auction buyer, quite frankly, totally disinterested in membership in a co-op. As a buyer I am interested primarily in getting the items I want at the most reasonable price. I fail to see how membership in a seller oriented and dominated co-op serves my interest as a buyer.
As a buyer, I already have membership in every commercial enterprise in existence. My vote is my money and I cast my vote where I spend my money.
As a seller, I would be very interested in a co-op for its ability to provide services to me at less cost than commercial services.
How would the co-op propose to offer auction services at less cost than eBay? eBay provides a vast customer base for a very modest fee structure (providing one ignores the added cost bells and whistles).
Show me, as a seller, the advantage of a co-op over eBay and I will consider becoming a member.
posted on February 13, 2001 07:40:32 AM new
cod ... very well stated.
I, as a buyer am getting a little fed up with the emphasis being put on a co-op when it is obvious that this is something being promoted by sellers.
As a buyer, I want to see prices and selection that are better than those I can get from the B&M stores and established on-line stores like Amazon and Future Shop.
Sellers - with all due respect, if you are not able to market your product with the existing tools that are available to you (and some, like eBay, are excellent), what makes you believe that a co-op (ANOTHER on-line auction thing to compete with BidVille and the other "free" upstarts) will work?
posted on February 13, 2001 07:47:59 AM new
Codasaurus- since you have no interst as a buyer- I will move on.
As a seller- your benefit is that the profit that this COOP would gain would be plowed back into the site for expansion or maybe used for R&D( a bottomless pit if there ever was one) or used to subsidize member benefits- whatever they may be. You as a member gain- not another business or it's stock-holders. That is the bottom line in all of this. Business profit for me and you!!!A COOP is a moneymaking venture by definition. Where that money is spent will make the difference.A COOP's Bylaws will define that.
Form the COOP first.
I remind you that eBay wasn't built in a day. It didn't spring fully formed from Pierre's brow.It took WORK.
Now I have to work! Several boxes of old books are calling to me at a local antique shop that just wants to just get rid of them!! Profit-I understand it and am willing to work for it!
As sellers- did we go out and have your first weeks listings and become Power Sellers overnite without thought or direction? Of couse not!! Business doesn't grow that way. You start with a core and grow.
posted on February 13, 2001 09:00:50 AM new
books,
GREAT POST!
You make some excellent points from a buyers perspective.
I came to AW a little over a year ago.
I listened to the buyers complaints on this board and have change my auction page format several times(to make it better)based on what they Liked & Disliked.
I have a much more user-friendly page now.
And I believe I have all the pertenant information needed now for a buyer to decide to bid or not.
I hardly ever get e-mails asking questions, and thats because I try to put all information in the listing that is needed.
Yes, you may be onto something when you say we need to listen to what the buyer wants.
posted on February 13, 2001 09:18:04 AM new
Books/Packer: So, what do you suggest be done to distinguish the co-op from Ebay??
It's wonderful to write what you've done and I applaud it and even agree with your statements. Now, are you going to sit back and wait for an answer or show us? We are not a for profit group looking to solicit your business. The co-op is made up of sellers and bidders who want some change. Now is the time to try and create that change!
Part of being in a co-op is working towards what you want. You have a fine goal, are you prepared to make it happen??
I hope you bring some ideas up here and I hope you consider joining one of the comittee's and help build the co-op.
posted on February 13, 2001 09:34:13 AM newJAMIE, JAMIE, JAMIE
Were'nt you listening??
YOU ASKED: So, what do you suggest be done to distinguish the co-op from Ebay??
What, you didn't read books post?
Books said:
[b]Guarantee the accuracy of all descriptions, with a back-up money-back
guarantee from the co-op itself
* Guarantee safe arrival of all merchandise, through insurance or otherwise
* Use no music, bizarre backgrounds, or moving graphics in their listings
* Ship internationally, unless prohibited by law
* Clearly explain in their listings how the shipping & handling will be calculated, with either a dollar amount or a formula, and indicate whether multiple items will be combined for reduced shipping cost.
* Provide a method for accepting credit card payments at no extra cost to
the buyer (i.e. Bidpay doesn't count)
* Refrain from using any word containing "@" in the auction title (no L@@K W@W etc.)
* Etc. (I'm sure I could find a few more in the "I won't bid if...." thread.[/b]
And I SAY:
By listening to the buyers my business is BOOMING!
posted on February 13, 2001 09:50:44 AM new Jamie,
Don't you know I have no ideas.
My ideas are provoked by others and their ideas.
Books made a thought provoking idea and I proceeded to say YES, that is so TRUE as by listening to the buyers complaints here at AW I indeed was able to improve my business.
There is no way I could've thought that idea/plan up myself. I just live it, I don't think about it.
Thats why I could not be part of the steering commitee for thinking up ideas or planning...I can only view them and articulate on what I like or dislike about it.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:22:03 AM new
Packer there are no real experts. There are just people who are forceful about their ideas and believe their own BS. Sure, there are people who know more than others about subjects but it takes many people with all sorts of knowledge to make something work.
I spoke to a techie/consultant today who blathered on and on and on about this widget and why we needed to spend an extra 20K on this piece of software and 30K on that piece of equipment. Wonderful person and damned helpful too. We can use their help but I sure wouldn't want them to run the co-op!
It's bits from all of us that will make this work.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:31:07 AM new
Hi RB - I've read almost every thread on every board concerning these co-ops. My guess is there are at least four, six or even more being organized, not just the two that have been made public. Of course, that's just pure speculation since I don't have access to the emails or other communications that may be "under wraps" so to speak.
Kinda odd that Radh came up with this idea and somehow she disappeared. I would like to know why, but I wouldn't invade her privacy.
Some of the sellers do want buyers to become members. However, a lot of the sellers are concerned that buyers having an equal vote might make it more difficult for sellers to shove their ideas down buyers throats, if the buyers had a say.
They believe buyers will come if they offer good merchandise, fair prices, etc. and maybe have them pay an initation fee but give them only 1/4 or 1/2 a vote, and maybe even charge a buyers' premium (of only ten cents or twenty cents or who the heck knows). Others only want buyer input via surveys, etc. (ya know, the kind Ebay pays so much attention to).
I think that's complete garbage, sounds as if they are doing the same things as Ebay (except for the buyers' premium which Ebay doesn't have) with the only difference I see being they will own the site rather than Ebay.
I'll just keep on buying from Ebay, I know what their idiotic policies are, and I don't have to pay a buyers' premium.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:54:45 AM new
IMHO, your fee structure is too high and not low enough to encourage sellers.
Second, buyers don't want to pay to shop. This will send buyers running for the hills before you even get started. Sure you need someway to protect against deadbeats, but charging buyers is not the way to do it. Perhaps a better feedback structure could help.
Third, MARKETING. A lot of companies have failed because they just did NOT have good marketing. Great ideas, wonderful products, and great service is not enough, if you can't get the word out.
Do you think Microsoft is number 1 because of a superior product? No. Marketing. eBay? Million dollar deals and Marketing.
Marketing will make the buyers come, and where there are buyers, there will be sellers, but the reverse is not necessarily true.
I have read all these discussions, and you have a CO-OP of many people who DON'T know how to create the extensive databases and site design necessary for the site itself. Nor and plan on marketing this idea to the buyers. Any part of a BUSINESS PLAN indicates who your core target is and how you plan on bringing them in.
Bidville and the rest are not working because they have yet to advertise or find a unique (or even tried and true) way of getting BUYERS to their sites. Who cares if they have over 250k in listings? Or even 1 million? Without the buyers, there is no auction.
posted on February 13, 2001 11:02:28 AM new
Hello Cathy,
More profit for me as a seller? That's it? That's what the co-op is about?
Count me out.
The very membership and fee structure that you and Canvid have floated already tells me that the co-op is not going to make me more money than running those same auctions on eBay. And I would probably see far less return on my investment for quite some time.
I would not only see less money but I would be devoting additional time to getting the co-op off the ground. Time I could spend making even more tin crafts, listing auctions, mailing items and taking money to the bank.
There simply is no profit for a startup to plow back into expanded services or R&D or even a reduction in membership or listing fees.
Member benefits paid for by profits from the co-op? Why in the world of free enterprise should I work to subsidize benefits for others? Or expect others to subsidize benefits for me?
Take health insurance for example as that has already been mentioned. Health insurance is a wonderful goal for a co-op to aim for, but only for those members who don't have health insurance. I already have that covered by my regular job. What on Earth would posess anyone who already has health coverage to agree to vote for a co-op provided health plan? A plan that they will help to pay for but will gain virtually no benefit from?
I mentioned elsewhere that one of the reasons for business failures is that unrealistic projections are often made and the business starts off seriously undercapitalized. If you want to start a co-op you need to be realistic about its short term prospects and the negative cash flow that is sure to occur while the business is being established.
The negative cash flow will occur not only with the co-op itself but also for each member. If the members are not fully informed as to the costs and risks involved then you will have a very large problem as those costs surface. If for no other reason than the fact that eBay will always be there as an attractive alternative to any disenchanted co-op member.
Lest you think I am merely postng in order to ruin whatever chance a co-op has please understand that that is not my intention. I'm posting precisely because I would love to see a serious competitor to eBay, both as a seller and a buyer. If I don't post about the problems I foresee and the co-op fails or never even gets started, I will have done a real disservice to the idea.
posted on February 13, 2001 11:16:16 AM new
Thanks to all who have commented. I have just a few follow-up posts.
I think the first fatal mistake has already been made and is not correctable within the co-op structure.
Labelle says: "I also agree 100% that there has to be something that is different enough about the proposed site that bidders will be attracted and stay.I PERSONALLY like your suggestions.But this is a voting organization- one seller-one vote."
The problem IMO is that, by defining the membership as "auction sellers" (or "auction sellers & buyers" you pretty much guarantee that the result will not be noticeably different from Gold's/Bidville/etc. All of the different distinctive ideas will cancel each other out, and you'll end up with a compromised muddle.
If you define membership more narrowly ("auction pottery sellers", the one-person one-vote process will produce a distinctive specialty auction site. If you define membership as "sellers who accept a Buyer's Bill of Rights", the same process will produce a site which is distinguished by positive customer service and "no unpleasant surprises".
IMO, the founders of a co-op need to define what will make that auction site distinctive; *then* determine whether there is enough seller interest to make it work. Bringing everyone together to form an amorphous auction site co-op IMO guarantees that the site will remain amorphous.
Codasaurus -- I think you're right that there is no real incentive for buyers to participate in co-op membership/mananagement. That IMO only strengthens the argument for restricting membership to buyer-oriented sellers, and conducting lots of market research to determine what buyers want in an auction site. (My "Buyer's Bill of Rights" above is drawn from reading lots of newsgroup and board posts from buyers complaining about poor seller service; that's *one* unscientific form of market research.)
Labelle -- Equitable distribution of profits is only a benefit *if* there's a profit. AFAICT, Gold's, Bidville, etc aren't showing a profit; if the co-op cannot distinguish itself from them, there's nothing to distribute.
posted on February 13, 2001 11:36:17 AM new
Oops, I hit "post" too soon.
Jada -- I don't think buyers are going to pay membership fees, buyer's premiums, or any other penalty for bidding, and I don't think they should have to.
Enlightened sellers recognize that they make money by making buyers happy. If the co-op limits membership to "enlightened sellers", and puts the necesary investment into market research to make the co-op atractive to buyers, I think it will work.
eBay isn't interested in customer service for either sellers or buyers; its surveys are designed to figure out how much eBay can get away with. A seller co-op could be the same, with regard to buyers, or it could be something different if it asks "what more can we do" rather than "what more can we get away with".
As a seller (600+ FB on eBay), I search out buyer opinions on newsgroups, etc. I'm not trying to find out "Will buyers tolerate a policy of uninsured items being shipped at the buyer's risk?" I'm trying to find out "Will buyers be happier if I guarantee safe arrival of everything, insured or not?"
It's all a matter of attitude. The question is: What attitude will the seller members in this co-op have? And that question will be answered largely by the initial defition of the co-op and the type of members it recruits.
Codasaurus -- I don't think anyone would expect the co-op to pay for health insurance for members. But it could use the buying power of its combined membership to negotiate a good group policy, with individual members responsible for paying the premiums if they so choose.
For that matter, it could negotiate discounts on hotels, rental cars, shipping services (The American Booksellers Assn offers itsmembers a break on FedEx Ground service), etc. Sort of the Triple-A approach to member benefits.
I have other ideas about seller benefits, but, IMO, they're pretty much irrelevant unless the co-op has a strategy to provide the most important seller benefit -- bidders.
Time to stop; my typing fingers are worn down to stubs.
posted on February 13, 2001 11:56:36 AM new
Just another auction site, any way you look at it. Been there, done that! This would have to be something truly different (not just another auction site) or it doesn't have a prayer of success.....
> [b]Guarantee the accuracy of all descriptions, with a back-up money-back
guarantee from the co-op itself.[/b] - very risky. Ripe for buyer fraud. What would be the criteria for settling disputes?
> Guarantee safe arrival of all merchandise, through insurance or otherwise Who's going to pay for insurance. The seller? The Buyer? Not a good idea!
> Use no music, bizarre backgrounds, or moving graphics in their listings. Now you are talking about telling sellers what they can or can't do with their listings, based on your own personal biases...
> Ship internationally, unless prohibited by law You are telling sellers that they have to ship internationally. What if they don't wish to. It can be a big hassle and there is no "guarantee [of] safe arrival" without considerable expense.
> Clearly explain in their listings how the shipping & handling will be
calculated.... Good idea.
> Provide a method for accepting credit card payments at no extra cost to
the buyer (I don't get this one. Most payment services are free to the buyer.)
> Refrain from using any word containing "@" in the auction title (no L@@K W@W etc.) Again you are using your personal bias. Others (not including myself) may disagree.
> [b]Etc. (I'm sure I could find a few more in the "I won't bid if...."
thread.)[/b]
Come on! With a site this restrictive and that has that many trivial rules. Few sellers would feel comfortable listing there.
This is just my oppinion. Feel free to disagree....
posted on February 13, 2001 12:02:56 PM new
Well, at least we're discussing and that's a good thing.
Look, there are many models to look at. Nobody has suggested that whatever's decided on a message board is the way to go.
This is part of the research and we are all guinea pigs. IF you're really comitted to joining any of the committees share some of your ideas and email us to join.
Contrary to what some think we are really an open group and you don't have to be an expert.
Believe it not many people that run major corporations can't do every job. That's why consultants and experts are brought in.
What it will take to make the co-op a reality are people who really want it and are ready and willing to do some work instead of beat their chests.
Great Post Out of the Blue. I think the point I see is that there are going to be different people with different ideas on how to do this. It doesn't mean anyone is horrible or even wrong, just that we all tend to have our own styles.
I read a post before where the person said that most online sellers are very Independant type people and I think that's very much correct. And getting such opinionated SOB's to agree on anything will be quite a task!
posted on February 13, 2001 12:08:35 PM new* Provide a method for accepting credit card payments at no extra cost to the buyer
Sorry, but this subject really annoys me. Unless you're living in Fantasyland, you have to know that there is a cost associated with using a credit card. Why on earth, when using one is almost always mentioned as a benefit for the buyer, should the seller be the one to pay the cost? Why not also suggest that the seller pay the shipping expenses? Or for a free two week vacation for two to Acapulco? Buyers would like that, too.
Okay- I feel better now.
edited to fix ubb...
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Feb 13, 2001 12:09 PM ]
posted on February 13, 2001 12:11:42 PM new
Canvid,
What is the effective difference between posting here and joining a committee?
All the committee will be doing is discussing options and proposing a particular set of options for the approval of the membership.
People are posting here telling you what they want or don't want. People are emailing you. People are on other boards.
Take the input and come up with the next iteration of the plan and post it here. You will ultimately have something that enough people will agree to or you won't.
All this effort to get people to provide input and then to suggest that they should join a committee is redundant.
The problem isn't a lack of ideas or suggestions. The problem is the lack of leadership. You are defacto the leader of one of the co-op formation efforts.
Start leading...
[ edited by codasaurus on Feb 13, 2001 12:13 PM ]
posted on February 13, 2001 12:19:02 PM new
CODE: "What is the effective difference between posting here and joining a committee?"
Is that a serious question?? This is fact finding. This is feeling out a portion of our fellow sellers as a group.
A committee is a much different creature.
And there's usually a more defined result from a comittee as opposed to the chaos (good and bad) of dealing with some of the folks on these message boards.
posted on February 13, 2001 12:31:54 PM new
Canvid,
When I'm not serious I generally tack a Heheh onto my post.
Yep, I'm serious.
I've watched for days, even weeks now as folks talk about wanting a co-op without really defining what it is that they actually want to achieve with this co-op.
And when someone does state something explicit there is invariably a follow up post by another who doesn't want that feature.
You all are fishing in a big pond full of many kinds of fish wondering what bait to use to catch all of them. Don't you see that you have to decide what kind of fish you want to catch and then figure out what is the appropriate bait?
Look, there's a lake trout over yonder jumping up to take a damsel fly.
Hey! Just behind you I saw a bass swallow a shiner.
You don't need more fact finding. You need to decide who this co-op is going to serve. That is your bait. And those are your fish.
Capische?
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