dman3
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posted on February 18, 2001 05:12:57 PM new
hmmm interesting.
Well I guess the link worked for someone since it has been found to be a breach of the auction watch CG's
I wont post it again Sorry.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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cavemanjohn
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posted on February 18, 2001 05:26:28 PM new
um--just the facts--this is the link that worked for me.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Not sure of the gobbily gook that makes it linkable--sheesh--just paste and copy---it's a go!
Is it me or are people getting a bit edgy?
COOP--YES!!!!
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dman3
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posted on February 18, 2001 05:48:52 PM new
hey cavemanjohn I dont think no ones getting edgy at all here nice calm day.
My website link is not the link that was deleted I am working on a co-opcentral website and it directly links to other message boards on the main page at this time was my error for not thinking before I posted it DOH 
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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joice
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posted on February 18, 2001 05:56:24 PM new
dman3,
The other one worked if you took out the extra URL that it contained 
The homepage link in your sig line doesn't work for me, by the way.
Joice
Moderator.
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cavemanjohn
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posted on February 18, 2001 06:01:59 PM new
Everything is beautiful---in its own way
Let's go---get this talk into high gear and do it! Simplistic? yes. Doable--YES!
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dman3
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posted on February 18, 2001 06:11:49 PM new
hehe thanks Joice I guess this means I goofed x2.
only 50% of the people clicking my sig line can get it to work the host change happened less 2 days ago so maybe its hasn't worked its self across the net yet.
Im gona go sit in the corner and pout now with my dounce cap on
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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twinsoft
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posted on February 18, 2001 06:41:03 PM new
'Doesn't work for me either. Darn that gypsy fortune-teller. Anyhoo...
GratefulDad
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canvid13
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posted on February 19, 2001 05:12:45 AM new
Great job Dman! The link works fine here.
Jamie
canvid13
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canvid13
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posted on February 19, 2001 01:03:22 PM new
Hi Folks,
We are hoping to have all of the comittee spots filled by the weekend so if you're interested email or check out the message board.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
514-270-7478
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joice
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posted on February 20, 2001 09:12:54 PM new
canvid13,
I have deleted your post as promotional.
Joice
Moderator.
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MartyAW
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posted on March 3, 2001 07:01:34 AM new
labelle,
I have deleted your post as it is promotional.
Marty
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labelle
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posted on March 3, 2001 07:09:23 AM new
Since asking for information is promotional-even though it hasn't been before on this board- I will just relist a revised first half of my post.
Fees-fees-fees. They are a part of doing business. The question is whether you pay your fees to help someone buy another new Mercedes or pay those fees to help yourself.COOPs work for YOU-because they are you!
Cathy
[email protected]
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jwpc
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posted on March 3, 2001 07:27:00 AM new
I am afraid trying to organize a "co-op" is about like trying to organize a "boycott of eBay," there are too many thousands of sellers who have no idea of any of this, and since sellers are independent contractors, trying to organize them is this side of impossible.
I am not being negative, just realistic, a successful co-op is as realistic as a successful boycott!
Realize if folks are mad and they still continue to post on eBay- and not enough sellers know or care to boycott - then there are not enough sellers who are aware or care enough to be bothered with a co-op.
The really few sellers on AW compared to the thousands on eBay, doesn't make a dint in the bucket so to speak - one would have to have real, direct access to every eBay seller to organize anything successfully - and I don't see that possible.
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labelle
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posted on March 3, 2001 07:46:16 AM new
jwpc-Someone here said that only maybe 5% of eBay sellers even know about AW.I believe that.
I also agree that trying to organize all- or even 20% of the eBay sellers is impossible. But, I have been selling Vintage items for 20 years. I have done shows, set up at antique shows in malls, been in COOPs and have shops on and off-line. Antiquers are a pretty close group that know how to network about new shows or selling ideas. This smaller, niche COOP is a more realistic and do-able undertaking.
We already are familiar with the pay a fee, work within the Coop and structured guidelines about what can be sold and how. A move to the internet for the antique COOP is a natural progression.Every weekend we are grouped at shows and are easily reachable without an AW post.
COOPs are not right for everyone- but our research shows that they are a viable, economic option.
Cathy
[email protected]
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canvid13
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posted on March 3, 2001 09:35:16 AM new
Well ebay didn't start out as Ebay? It started out small.
And nobody knew about ebay.
But word spread.
Fact is that Ebay did some good work. It also had some good timing. Mostly it had the desire of it's customers to make it work
The fact is that if someone, anyone, likes something they will want to use it again.
Now Ebay has evolved into something that isn't what it was.
What about all of us who were there when Ebay needed us??
We need a co-op. We may not agree with each or even like each other. We are a very diverse group. But I think we can find a way to make this work.
Fact also is that it's going to take money, time, experiance, and a lot of work. But I for one think it's worth it and could eventually be very, very successful.
We need to get a concrete group together, present an initial prospectus and have a membership drive that we can build upon.
As we grow we will get stronger. Our website recieved over a 1000 hits in its first week with over 10% of you signing the guest book.
I think that's amazing considering how little word has been spread to date.
Think about it?
We can't promote here on AW but there was a news story on us here on AW with a link or you can email me for the url.
http://www.auctionwatch.com/awdaily/dailynews/february01/1-022701.html
Thanks all,
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
514-270-7478
[ edited by canvid13 on Mar 3, 2001 09:36 AM ]
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delphy
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posted on March 3, 2001 09:56:52 AM new
How long before AW goes under? I can't wait.
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quickdraw29
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posted on March 3, 2001 10:31:41 AM new
When is this Co-op idea going to die? Dotcoms are becoming Dotbombs faster than a Pentinum Processor and you still think this co-op will fly?
From gathering info from other threads, many ebay sellers are too loyal to ebay because the sales are good. What will happen is everyone who will give this co-op a chance will list their "junk" and leave the best on ebay.
Who's writing the business plan anyway? Neither labelle nor canvid have a realistic plan, and both of these two appear to be the organizers!!
Antiquers represent a small piece of the pie. Is this co-op going to be heavy ended with antiques? Antiques aren't even that big of slice of the pie compared to other categories.
Canvid really thinks word of mouth will be suffiecent. It's like me running another email campaign like Hotmail did a while back offering free email. It's been done, people are happy with their free email, I can't duplicate that success.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Mar 3, 2001 10:41 AM ]
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dman3
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posted on March 3, 2001 11:48:27 AM new
Just for the Record the Dotcoms that are bombing ARE the IPO's the companys dependent on stock holders.
A Co-OP will be non-profit Own and operated by the Co-op it will have no wallstreet stock holders to anwser to and the only income and profit it will be looking to make will be to operate its not being built on some gold digging pipe dream the websites of the past three year have been haveing.
The Co-Op will not be a .com it will be a .org owned by members.
since the only Return on profit any member will get for there member ship fees is there vote and services The only way it could bomb is if members failed to use services and put in there two cents worth.
AS far as the statement of trying to put togeather a Co-Op is like trying to put togeather a Boycott against Ebay.
Well This could be why the Co-Op is not forming to compete against ebay or other companies.
A co-op services should and I think will work Just as well with Ebay and other auction sites small and large as it will with co-op auction sites.
As well Labelle is talking of a Antique and collectable co-op Any one who thinks antiques and collectables is a small group is not thinking right,
Antiques and collectables covers every category ebay has and more from ebay motors to soup spoons. anything every made in the past becomes antique and collectable.
Cars, car parts,
glass, pottery, pens, advertizeing, records tapes, videos, China, magazines, Sports cards, cans, bottles, labels, books,memoribillia ECT.
Autiques and collectables makes up 80% or more of what most all auction sites are about.
There is nothing here said that cant be done.
Word of mouth has already got 1000's interested voices in this co-op at various times from many places.
It has already got offers of funding, Legal help, even offers of servers and auction software and auction sites interested in helping and being a part of what its about.
There are people all over working on various Co-op Committees and Idea's
These Discussions of the Co-OP are not new they have been around over a year and its grew from a few voices to many and in the past two months has interest has multipled.
I no longer feel its a question of if there will be a co-op or a co-op auction site I feel its a matter of time now.
the biger question is are you all going to come into it while its still forming or will you wait till its nearly to late for many of your online businesses and hobbies.
Remember there is still services as sellers we use that havent charged us yet and yet services for the online auction comunity that havent been made yet that will start out promiseing free services that will yet be chargeing you even more $$$ to use pluss the fact that the companies that chrage now and you all know fees dont ever go down they only go up even in the best of economy prices go up.
Problem is the prices on the Items we sell dont become more valuble that fast it took 50 to 60 years for a piece of carnival glass to go from retail price of .15 cents to it value today at on line auction of $6 to $15 yet in one year the cost of selling this item at auction online went from $0 to $2.50 and more depending on where you sell it online and how you package it for shipping.
At this rate in 3 years it will cost you $7.50 from start of auction to finish to sell your piece of carnival glass.
People who sell Higher priced items will be ate alive with fees as most of the seller services want from 1% to 10% of every sales at this time what will it be it the near future.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 3, 2001 12:50:36 PM new
You made some great points DMAN.
In my opinion we have a six month window before the viability of creating a co-op dies.
The sqeeze from Ebay, Yahoo, the USPS,and even AW is just the start. In the next year this business is going to change dramatically. It seems like every day we are reading about another strategic partnership between ebay and another company. AW's latest news story is about whether Amazon will surivive and we all know about Yahoo which will probably merge with ebay and/or Disney in some form or the other within a year.
Like the ol saying goes. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.
QD: I guess you'll just stick with Ebay and the status quo until it's too expensive or restrictive for you to do business.... Best of luck big fella!
Frankly folks, we don't need posts about how hard it is going to be to create the co-op. We all know how hard it is as we are already working on it!
It'd be nice if some of you would tell us how to make it easier and what you want to do to help!
See you all there!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
514-270-7478
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pcalton
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posted on March 3, 2001 01:35:11 PM new
I know that I will list where I can sell.
I got to have the traffic and features that work for my business.
I have difficulty imagining a non-profit
co-op organizing enough sellers with the capital to start an auction site that will be a viable venue for selling in less than a year.
Perhaps a co-op site could get up and running with some BIG donations and just a handful of go getters who will take the bull by the horns and get the co-op started. But, where is the traffic,the bidders, going to come from?
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 3, 2001 01:48:13 PM new
Hi Perry,
Where was the traffic when ebay started?
I know I have a dbase of customer emails of close to 5k. A super seller on ebay said he had one of 10K.
If this is done right then every news article and every bit of coverage is going to help build the site.
And of course, if there are some guidelines or code of ethics, or even, Rules! That sellers must agree to adhere to and that are enforced, then that can only lead to better bidder satisfaction.
Better bidder satisfaction generally means more return visits and word of mouth.
There are also many ways to attack core areas.
If we have a lot of Antique sellers then this area of the co-op can plant ads and spread the word in industry trades and websites. Selective banner ads still work believe it or not.
Ebay didn't use TV right away. But every step forward is going to be news and that's free.
When we started the co-op website it was covered in an online story and our hits and support jumped. Every time that there's been some minute coverage we jump in number.
The more sellers and bidders that know about the co-op the easier our job will eventually be.
I know we will be having a membership drive soon. If we hit our targets then I think we will have our site up within 4-6 months.
It's pretty exciting. And we have a live chat Sunday night (the 4th) at 8:00 PM EST.
See you there!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
Build it and they will come!
[ edited by canvid13 on Mar 3, 2001 01:49 PM ]
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labelle
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posted on March 3, 2001 02:39:29 PM new
PC- If anyone who is putting together a COOP is promising you the same level of immedeate sales that you may have with eBay - they are lying to you.
If a new COOP is not putting a LARGE spend on advertising into a projected budget- they are not worth the time to consider joining.
Ever hear of Target Marketing??
Actually the main asset that a COOP has is its members and their customer lists.If the COOP venture belongs to you and is a team effort- you as an individual have part of the burden to advertise the site. I said part- not all.The COOP corperation has the main responsibility- using your dollars wisely-getting as much bang for the buck as possible from the start.
IN MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION-there should be one price for those Charter Members in a COOp - who would be willing to start the COOP with their good faith investment. As the COOP progresses and becomes fruitful- that membership investment should be raised in price acccordingly for new members as set in the Bylaws. That way those who would like to climb onto the winning bandwagon later on can buy in at the higher price.As the value of a COOP increases-so should it's buy-in stock price.This way chance-takers benefit.
By the way- the Cooperative movement should have its own .coop designation for net sites later this year.A move the NCBA and ICA have lobbied for extensively.
Cathy
[email protected]
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dman3
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posted on March 3, 2001 02:44:43 PM new
pcalton
I ageee with you that people will always sell where they get the sales and I believe in the beging the seller co-op services will need to be able to work with sites like ebay it will have to enchance the and inprove selling for auction sites that are out there.
The Co-op Also need to look at the reality of the future of on line selling and the future for small sellers hobbiest and seller is not going to be ebay they are moveing More toward retail gaints auctioning and selling there New Retail Items.
They are looking toward a small amount of large corporartion who each give them a garenteed millions in income.
your $10 a month or $1000 a month listing fees and FVF are becomeing little more then an anoyance to Ebay now not enough Rich's in these types of selling for then no more.
The future of P2P Auctions is moveing fast toward small niche Auction sites of the likes of a antique & collectables and Music& video auction sites with fix monthly fees-membership fees to sell and personal auction sites ran from each sellers own computer Hooked up with online data bases for search for a monthly fee-membership to have your auctions in this data base for search.
Or like I have said in the past neighborhoods catrgories or niche auction sites, not only in the very near future will more auction sites be ran directly from webserves on the sellers home computer Via DSL and cable modems hooked to an on line data base but these auction will offer live bidding.
where Auctions happen on set days & date and the bids taken Item bought and paid for in the same hour.
Ebay Wants to be a mall Auction, sellers and buyer dont want or need a mall most want a move to a more real auction house type auctions live and weekly listings to choose from.
The technology already exsits for each seller to set up there auction servers on there own computers and the software to do this is out there for free to do this.
The technlogy for the online search data base is already out there and been in use for a few years by companies such as napster.
as well Live auction Technology already exsits as well lowestbids has live auction technology and is working.
Why is it all the facts are looking us in the face right now and the only thing many are saying is to hard to make work is a simple Co-Operative .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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pcalton
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posted on March 3, 2001 03:33:10 PM new
I already have my own auctions streamed to my web page by Bidland. Any other seller can do the same thing.
I have a large customer base that I have no intentions of sharing with my competition.
Heck, the biggest reason I sell at auctions is to bring in New customers.
It's pretty simple: if I'm going to drum up traffic, I will direct everybody to my stuff ONLY.
Auction sites or listing or hosting services will have to be the providers of traffic to attract my investment of time and money.
Any attempt to develop an auction site without well-formed goals, specific measurable tasks, and capital means toward developing traffic will IMHO be just another auction site to add to the many who are likely doomed, regardless of the good intentions and obvious needs.
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 3, 2001 03:40:40 PM new
Well Perry then I guess you're happy with the status quo??
It's not up to me or our group to bring you anything!
We are a co-op. It's up to you to join and help build this so it encompasses your opinions. Most of which are pretty good!
Jamie
canvid13
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labelle
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posted on March 3, 2001 03:56:17 PM new
Gee, PC. Then I guess you are not a sharer or a joiner. Nothing wrong with that.Just be happy where you are and develop your business as you see fit.
Also expect to pay well to join any going concern- if you can even get in once it becomes successful. Because, by then, perhaps your money or input will not be needed or wanted.
It's always easy to put your money down on a sure thing.It takes a gambler with faith and imagination to take a step out in faith and work for an attainable goal.
You want facts and figures- go look for them yourself-work at it and you will find the same viability those of us who are working on this have.
Good luck!
Cathy
[email protected]
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dman3
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posted on March 3, 2001 03:59:42 PM new
Well What you are saying is true to a point pcalton
You would advertize to draw Trafic to your Items no one would advertize for there competition.
But with a co-op while drawing in buyer for your items if you do this well you also draw these same people to the co-op its self.
Even when Ebay Advertizeing they are not really trying to drum up Users for the sellers they are trying to advertize to get people who use there services they only make $$ from registered sellers.
But a side effect of advertizeing people to the they make money on is buyers who bid on all Auctions we list.
even your stream you pay for from bidland is simple free advertizeing for Ebay and the other sites you sell on.
in fact AW Billpoint paydirect paypal and all these services we use get free advertizments piggy back on all are listing and they are now asking us to pay them so they can run free ads in our listing.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ?????
Each item I launch from AW has a link back to AW every counter every image on every auction as well 50 to 100 items a month I pay Ebay to list AW has advertizeing on now AW wants to charge me to put there advertizement in my sales ads.
PayPal doing the same thing run there banners on your listing drum up there business buyer pays with paypal they Paypal charges you after you gave them free advertizeing.
Billpoint paydirect bidland and the rest of them all do the same thing.
at least with a coop your paying to advertize your own interests and Auctions.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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pcalton
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posted on March 3, 2001 04:20:29 PM new
Well canvid13 I guess you understand my words differently than I intend, or your agenda is clouding objective interpretation of what I verbalize, I am completely off base in understanding what a co-op is.
if it is not up to the group (co-op) to bring sellers anything then why have it?
it seems to me that the idea of a co-op sprung up because sellers have needs that are not being met or that they are dissatisfied with the way they are being treated and have a need to be treated differently. I would think that a co-op mission would be to bring into being circumstance that improves circumstances for sellers.
to say It's not up to me or our group to bring you anything! seems to contradict what a co-op is about. Maybe I'm wrong????????????
If you read again what I previously posted I am sure you will not find I said I am happy with the "status quo," as you call it.
quite the contrary, I am always looking for ways to improve my business and improve the online shopping experience for all who wish to participate.
please read my previous post again and see if you can get a feel for my worry that a co-op auction site without with strategic plans for developing traffic will most like fail.
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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tentwentytwo
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posted on March 3, 2001 04:43:22 PM new
This pseudo-Tony Robbins **** by people who have no business plan, have never even made a clear statement of what EXACTLY they are doing, goalwise or otherwise, and who have offered NOTHING to or done NOTHING for the Online Auction Community (which is EXACTLY what they accuse anyone of who says ANYTHING that they consider even remotely negative) is getting wayyyy old... They continue to try to create an "if yer not with us, yer aginst us" mentality, and it's getting laughable, and frankly disrespectful of the intelligence of sellers. Where are the <choke> "committees"? In fact, where is ANYTHING???? One and only one thing is crystal clear, this particular iteration of people promoting a "coop" wants sellers money through fees. THIS appears to be the uniting "ideal" through it all... NOPERS, eBay didn't start off with 5 million entries, but they also didn't start off by charging membership fees to belong...
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pcalton
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posted on March 3, 2001 04:55:17 PM new
so if I don't give up my customer base I'm not a "joiner" and not a "sharer" and "good luck" because if you're not with us now we probably won't let you in when we're successful?
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