auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:05:00 PM new
Okay even though they say they weren't violating any copyright laws because they use php code vs html code..and blah blah blah pass the koolaid kiddies....
BidBay has now changed their templates steering away from any of the colors or layout from AW.
Now why would a company who claims it was doing nothing wrong do that?
Okay faithful BidBayers where are you to defend this action?
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ballsandstrikes
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:14:35 PM new
Where did you find this out? I am TRYING to keep an open mind about all of this. Does changing colors and not design comply with copyright laws. I have been waiting for an "official" Bidbay response but as of yet I have not seen one. On a plus side, of the10 or so auctions I have up I already have a bid or two and again, have met some genuinly nice people in a short time. My question would be, if they did not get the templates from AW, where did they come from and who designed them? I have about 750 cards and lots that I am not listing on beckett because I want to auction them. THey are looking for a home. I had planned on spliting them between bidbay and bidville. Now I am waiting to see how this plays out.
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:19:31 PM new
go to your image manager where the templates are stored for your use and check them out..they have changed.
AG2
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msgodrocks
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:47:26 PM new
Yes we are also still waiting for the Bidbay Response! None yet!!! Bet there is a new contest or give away instead! Wanna bet me??? Ballsandstrikes, of course there are bids on your auctions. They read these boards!!!
edited to add this:
The blonde one says since Mark just "works for" AW, he needs to just do his job and not sweat the small stuff! Really Mark!! Shame on you!! You own AW don't you??? he he
[ edited by msgodrocks on Feb 9, 2001 02:49 PM ]
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mtnmama
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:50:31 PM new
Found this on a copyright site:
"All creative works end up in the public domain eventually. As seen in the Copyright Fundamentals section, this can take quite some time.
However, the software producer is free to forego his copyrights and grant the software to the Public Domain. In this case, anyone is free to use, copy, fold, spindle or mutilate the software.
But as pointed out in the context of Copylefting, this is not always the best way to bequeath your software to the world since others are free to make modifications to the software, thus creating derivative works which can be protected by the modifier."
If the templates have not been released as public domain, such as the free templates offered on some sites, then making any changes to the color, layout, etc doesn't make a difference. It's still infringement.
Also, this is interesting:
"suppose you are viewing a well designed Web page that you particularly like and you decide to save it to your local hard drive.
(info on how to copy)
Are we copying yet? At this point, you have transferred the information from dynamic RAM to a fixed space on your hard drive; you have effectively copied the material.
Given that you have now copied material, the next question is whether you have a valid fair use argument for doing so. Applying
the Fair Use Test, it appears that there may be some convincing arguments for a Fair Use defense in this case."
Fair Use Test:
Fourth Factor as it relates to the template issue:
"The fourth factor considers the extent of harm to the market or potential market of the original work caused by the infringement. This test takes into account harm to the original, as well as harm to derivative works."
Did they harm the market or potential market of the original work?
IMO, not ever having used AW's templates or noticing that AW had a logo on the thumbnails of BidBay's templates, I can't say whether or not it has harmed AW for BidBay to use the templates.
Methinks this is a legal problem not to be decided by anyone. Just providing some info on copyright laws and the web here.
Take it or leave it. 
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coolvette
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:51:34 PM new
Okay faithful BidBayers where are you to defend this action?
Honestly AG2 they are not posting because they are getting hung without proof!
The moderation calls around here are not correct!
~Vette~
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ballsandstrikes
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:06:18 PM new
msgodrocks so you think the bids are to "show me" how great of a site bidbay is? Sigh. I am so confused lol. Is it baseball season yet? Game called on account of confusion
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:06:31 PM new
Vette in defense of AW
The one poster did post from BidBay offices as has been offered up on the BidBay chat board. How do you expect them to tell the difference.
As far as SH's post (I will respect his privacy) I could not tell where he posted that from. But it seems as though from his post on the BidBay chat board he was posting from BidBay as well.
To me that would have been proof enough as well.
I'm sure they were well aware of the conflict between the two companies and that AW has requested that BidBay employees and or agents not post on these boards and therefore should have waited until they got home.
Regardless.
The simple fact is AW's logo appeared on the thumbnail versions of the templates and they denied stealing them from AW. Claiming something about using PHP code instead of HTML.
They may not have stolen the "code" but they stole the design of the template...stupidly forgetting to remove the AW log.
And now they attempt to cover their tracks all the while assuring their members they did nothing wrong. Well if they did nothing wrong then leave it alone for the public to view.
AG2
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:11:01 PM new
It's amazing. The only answer on the bidbay chat board in regard to them changing the colors of the templates is
"thanks for the shiny new colors"
I guess the bidbayers will just accept anything the CEO does.
AG2
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coolvette
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:19:01 PM new
AG2,
Guess what? One of the members lives a couple of blocks away and the other lives driving distance away.
So maybe AW should just NARU all posters here that IP block addresses are similar to Bidbays.
Sounds like something ebay would do and if you support this then so be it!
It's dead wrong!
~Vette~
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:21:39 PM new
But they posted from BidBay...you cannot deny that...well one I know of and that was admitted on a thread on bidbay right now.
I would not condone them zapping because their ISP happened to hail from Cali...but once again she posted from the offices of bidbay how can they determine who is an employee or not?
edited to add: Can they not appeal their naru?
But please the topic of the thread is bidbay stealing AW's templates. How do you feel about that?
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Feb 9, 2001 03:22 PM ]
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:24:26 PM new
Also I would like to add...if they lived so close...once again why didn't they just wait until they got home to post?
BidBay stole AW's templates.
AG2
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msgodrocks
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:35:13 PM new
would you please pass the koolaid???
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DrJon71
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:42:41 PM new
AG2 you said "t's amazing. The only answer on the bidbay chat board in regard to them changing the colors of the
templates is
"thanks for the shiny new colors" ..
I could add "and they don't even have the words AW on them!!!"
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coolvette
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:51:40 PM new
But they posted from BidBay...you cannot deny that...well one I know of and that was admitted on a thread on bidbay right now.
So I guess what your saying that anyone that uses Bidbay's computers is a employee of Bidbay? I'm not buying it!
I would not condone them zapping because their ISP happened to hail from Cali...but once again she posted from the offices of bidbay how can they determine who is an employee or not?
They can't and this is my point, Naruing someone over suspicion is dead wrong and I don't care what you say!
edited to add: Can they not appeal their naru?
With the tactics being shown who would want to appeal it considering one of the members was NARU'd for sending a email!
But please the topic of the thread is bidbay stealing AW's templates. How do you feel about that?
I feel it's to early to make a judgement call on this but considering AW broke it's own private policy and the tactics used regarding suspensions of long time members of AW, well you read between the lines.
~Vette~
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:59:57 PM new
No Vette I am not saying that anyone who uses a BidBay computer is an employee.
What I am saying is that the moderators at AW cannot determine who they are as they can only view the IP numbers from where they posted.
BidBay would have done the same thing, use the posters IP info to determine who they might be.
And as for the original poster who was zapped, if you go back and read some of her posts...especially the one where she stated that because of "rule 134" the CEO could say anything he wanted to. I'm sure she thought of that all by herself sitting there in the BidBay offices.
I think a little birdy was whispering in her ear...LOL
At this point in time I wouldn't put anything past them.
And I don't think it's too early to tell if BidBay stole the templates...I saw the auctionwatch logo on the thumbnails for myself. I went and logged into my account and pulled the template menu down and viewed them for myself. So no one can tell me they weren't there.
AG2
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RTalon235
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:03:19 PM new
AG2: I'm not here to point any fingers or defend anyone. I'm not on a payroll and I don't own stock in any "E" company. You sent me a long, detailed email concerning Bidbay in general and your problems with it. Fine. I read it and responded to it as well. Here's my question...Why do you continue to attack the company on threads but your emails speak so differently? While we have had our share of disagreements I have always looked at your point of view and respected you for it. No more. I don't know about the infringement laws concerning this material and I really don't care. If I recall, you were invited to help fix problems at no cost and you'd even get a thousand bucks for your trouble. You said no. Yet when it comes to the bashing part apparently you can take time away from your nieces to take part with a vengenance. I know that my opinion does not matter in the least to you. Not a problem. But just maybe someone else will take notice that given the option between helping and hurting...you chose the latter. JMHO
RTalon235
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auctiongaurd
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:06:37 PM new
AG2 said: "I think a little birdy was whispering in her ear...LOL"
Just trying to get a clear picture here, do you think that it was a cukoo bird or a do-do bird that was doing the whispering?
After thinking long and hard about this, I am still torn. Is it possible that the bird can be both a do-do and cukoo?
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auctiongallery2
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:12:10 PM new
I sure do love how people are hooked on this money issue.
I don't want any part of BidBay anymore or their dirty money. And the matters I brought up in my email to you brought up many integrity issues...these are just new ones.
But alas...no one over at that site seems to care about the integrity issues. They are just happy BidBay changed the colors.
As far as my nieces arrival...are they here yet? Sheesh you could have fooled me it's quiet here...LOL. As I said on BidBay there was a conflict in the schedule I didn't say when I would be picking them up...you see I would still be in LA today if I had accepted the offer and that would definitely conflict with my schedule.
Once again I love how everything is so happy go lucky over there...listings are up (cough cough...wink wink....nudge nudge) and we are giving them so much publicity.
Well if this were true..then don't worry about us over here in the basement while we discuss auction sites.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Feb 9, 2001 04:17 PM ]
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coolvette
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:17:09 PM new
What I am saying is that the moderators at AW cannot determine who they are as they can only view the IP numbers from where they posted.
But they can take into effect that both are long time members of AW. The benefit of a doubt should have been given. Hang someone without proving a damn thing! Yeah AG2, makes perfect sense to me!
BidBay would have done the same thing, use the posters IP info to determine who they might be.
Bidbay is known to check into activities of certain posters before the plug is pulled! There is a big difference here and you know it.
And as for the original poster who was zapped, if you go back and read some of her posts...especially the one where she stated that because of "rule 134" the CEO could say anything he wanted to. I'm sure she thought of that all by herself sitting there in the BidBay offices.
Speculation is all this is!
I think a little birdy was whispering in her ear...LOL
Again speculation!
At this point in time I wouldn't put anything past them.
Your opinion only.
And I don't think it's too early to tell if BidBay stole the templates...I saw the auctionwatch logo on the thumbnails for myself. I went and logged into my account and pulled the template menu down and viewed them for myself. So no one can tell me they weren't there.
Frankly AG2, me and you differ here. You bring crap to boards and I make phone calls.
~Vette~
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mrfanini
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:18:21 PM new
Wow AG2 now you sound like you own and control this part of the wood.
"don't worry about us"
OK yeah yeah it's a figure of speech
again my fault for reading in between the line
mrfanini
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DrJon71
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:28:50 PM new
Bidbay is known to check into activities of certain posters before the plug is pulled! There is a big
difference here and you know it.
Now that is tooooooo funny! LOLLOLLOLLOL
[ edited by DrJon71 on Feb 9, 2001 04:30 PM ]
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OneDay
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:38:19 PM new
auctionguard, You Crack me UP!!! ROFLMAO!!!
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pattaylor
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:46:16 PM new
Ok, cool it!
Stop the bickering and insinuations, get back on topic or I'll have to lock the thread. The use of the "Ignore" button is free, please make use of it if someone's posts irritate you. We have serious posters who would like to discuss the topic, please show them that courtesy.
coolvette, You are skating on thin ice. I remind you that you are already under a formal warning.
Edited for UBB.
Pat
[email protected]
[ edited by pattaylor on Feb 9, 2001 04:49 PM ]
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ladypoetic
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posted on February 9, 2001 05:34:45 PM new
First I do not believe someone got Bids because they pposted on this board to even suggest such a thing is ridiculous. I do not know what happened with the templates. I do know they were replaced with very nice ones.Maybe to avoid problems. Whatever the reason they are gone nuff said. So why keep harping? I enjoy Bidbay and choose to stay because of the people there..and I suspect that is why others do the same. I am fairly new to the whole auction scene I have listed on other sites as well as bidbay but have yet to find the quality of people that I have found there, they are helpful, sweet, and for the most part genuine.
pOE
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DrJon71
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posted on February 9, 2001 05:57:44 PM new
ladypoe you are entitled to your opinion as am I. Still waiting for the explaination. Meanwhile pass the koolaide please. If you don't like AW, don't come to the basement!!!
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ladypoetic
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posted on February 9, 2001 06:09:05 PM new
Hmmm I actually do like this site just seems to me people have a problem with attacking other auction sites. I do not know why though I did ask quite a few times. Auction gallery2 was kind enough to try and explain his point of view in an e-mail but again it did not explain his attacks on Bidbay just his distaste and distrust for a certain person( to which I can Understand) though I only know his side. But as for your statement dont come to the basement if I dont like it... it seems some people are making a point of going to bidbay boards and letting it be known that they do not like it there, but it is a free country at least it was last time I checked
Brightest Blessings pOE
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jada
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posted on February 9, 2001 07:09:59 PM new
LadyPoetic - I know there are a lot of honest, fair and upstanding sellers and buyers on Bidbay who have absolutely no control over the actions of the CEO or other Bidbay powers-that-be.
However, I am really interested in one aspect of this situation, and I mean no offense and am not trying to argue or "bait" (although I really don't know what "bait" means).
What does Bidbay offer that makes these good, honest and fair sellers tolerate, even support, the actions of the CEO? He accepts no criticism of any sort, anyone who dares is immediately zapped off the site, and Mark pretty much provided proof that he was using AW's templates rather than designing or buying his own designs. If he was on solid legal ground, I doubt that he would be changing them right now.
Also, having been employed with the IRS he surely is familiar with the SEC's quiet period, yet he has violated that rule several times.
Do you think he is at the mercy, for lack of a better word, of those with the deep pocets who are footing the bills for Bidbay's site?
With a few changes, and a healthy dose of integrity, his site may have the potential to be extremely successful. Shouldn't any CEO be able to realize that he/she is harming their own business to the detriment of those who use that business.
Just today, on this board, some sellers with high ideals have stated they are unsure about using Bidbay any longer or will no longer use Bidbay. Doesn't this fact concern the CEO in the least? Does he want only those sellers who will follow blindly, no matter the path they are led down?
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DrJon71
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posted on February 9, 2001 09:10:02 PM new
Does
he want only those sellers who will follow blindly, no matter the path they are led down?
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ladypoetic
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posted on February 10, 2001 04:20:33 AM new
I do believe mistakes were made and will be made again...this company is a year old. And as for people questioning the company well that is their choice people need to do what is best for them. George did spend quite some time on the phone with one of these people, there are very few companies where the CEO will do that. but I thought I explained why I stay, the people of course.. Bidbay has created a place where people can have a sense of family where they try and help each other( if you look on the boards you will see this on a regular basis) this IS a company I want to be associated with. I dont agree with everything that is done but for the most part it is a nice place to be IMO which may not count for much but hey I own it
Brightest Blessings pOE
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