posted on March 3, 2001 05:14:38 PM new
tentwentytwo- have you not noticed that no one that is working on a business plan for ANY of the COOps is posting anything solid?
The reason being is that business plans are not for public consumption.They are confidential. They only are of interest to members of the COOP group.That potential group is being recruited .That potential group is being asked for input. No one will put out a half-baked effort. It is way too early.You know the old saying Rome wasn't built in a day.
PC-Joining any organization means you support that organization and its goals. If you see that sharing of a customer base- perhaps by supporting a mailing effort is beyond what your business concience will let you do- then you don't belong in that particular organization.This would be YOUR business choice-no body can force you to be something you aren't.So you keep looking for one you can fit into -if joining is your goal.Nope- you won't be a joiner or sharer in that first Coop. In turn when you decide that you want to be a member of a Coop that has perhaps proven to be worthy of your presence-Yep - I'd take your money- as long as you were willing to abide by the join and share rules there .But, I believe the point is moot.
PC- all I can say is we each make business decisions based on our individual needs.Coops just may not be a happy move for you.It doesn't mean your business won't prosper- just means that perhaps you are better suited to going it alone.
I have not seen a business plan, a mission statement, a list of goals, nothing, nada, zip.
You said: [i]I'd take your money- as long as you were willing to abide by the join and share [b]rules[/]there[/]
What Rules???? And what do you mean by I'd take your money ???? Is this your co-op???
Have you been elected, hired, appointed, or been delegated to the be the treasurer, banker, owner, leader, or some do you have some other position that would warrant the I'd take comment.????
Perhaps, I'm missing something here....
I joined a chat with you-all and about 5 or 6 people showed up. maybe I left the chat too soon but after about 2 hours there seemed to be little agreement except about 4 of the 6 chatters seemed to think a co-op could be effective as collective voice and that developing an auction site could be done more gradually.
you are right about me not wanting to DEPEND on what traffic I could bring to a co-op auction site. I take offense at your claiming I am not a joiner or sharer just because I think sellers soliciting their customer base is an insufficient way to drive traffic to a co-op auction site.
Perhaps, you are much more brilliant than I am but I do know a thing or two. My Undergraduate degree is in Organizational Communications, Public relations and business. So, I have a little knowledge of the subject and consider it a shame when I suggest a successful co-op auction site needs to bring traffic and I am then wished "good luck" in my own endeavors.
It seems you may be running off persons who might have positions that differ some from yours. Hey, if you don't want my input then sorry I said anything.
posted on March 3, 2001 06:14:15 PM new
Labelle wrote-
<<<tentwentytwo- have you not noticed that no one that is working on a business plan for ANY of the COOps is posting anything solid?
The reason being is that business plans are not for public consumption.They are confidential. They only are of interest to members of the COOP group.That potential group is being recruited .That potential group is being asked for input. No one will put out a half-baked effort. It is way too early.You know the old saying Rome wasn't built in a day. >>>
More bloviating, this time INCREDIBLE.
You (the two of you) come here asking for seller support, for people to JOIN you, setting forth no plan or goal, giving no reason for anybody to join you but constant, vague, sometimes-nice sounding platitudes. Heck, noone even knows whether this "Coop" will be an auction site, an association, a coffee klatsch, or WHATEVER, then you say SHHHHHHH it's a SECRET???... You demean anyone who questions your motives and/or execution (WHAT execution?), YOU WANT SELLERS' MONEY, you're addressing sellers here, but your mission statement or business plan is CONFIDENTIAL, in other words NONE OF THE BUSINESS OF THE SELLERS YOU'RE TRYING TO GET FINANCIAL SUPPORT FROM HERE, and EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE APPARENTLY TRYING TO RECRUIT PEOPLE HERE FOR GOING ON **MONTHS** NOW, it's "only of interest to the Coop Group"?
Wanna buy a bridge from me? You can build a highway over it, charge tolls, turn it into a Coop Toll Bridge...
I rest my case. This is almost beyond belief.
And to think that a month ago, I actually wasted ANY of my time doing research for this, OY VEY...
posted on March 3, 2001 06:31:32 PM new
I recall, canvid, you bashing every idea I ever posed, so why do you say you welcome new ideas to help build this co-op? You say you already know about all the hardship that goes into building a co-op, well you haven't seen anything yet! Just wait until you're open for business!
1000 people responded all because of word of mouth? The first 1000 are always the easiest. It's like when a company comes out with the "Super Pooper Scooper," there will always be those first 500 people who have to own the latest and advanced. So in stage 2 of the co-op, these 1000 people have to be satisfied with their results or you're doomed. Remember the most recent Alanis Morrisette CD. Her biggest fans ran out and bought it, hated it, and the CD bombed! Word of mouth. This brings me back to canvids post whch says word of mouth is enough. It can be if the first group is happy with the site. However, the sellers will be asking, where's the buyers; the buyers will be asking where are the sellers. I just don't see how you can develop a positive word of mouth advertising when the site is dead. Yea it worked for ebay when no competition was around, when the early adapters were collectors trading back and forth. It's more business now a days. Sales, sales, sales. Profits, profits and profits. That is the driving force of a new site.
Here's a new idea, canvid, since you want new ideas. Scratch this whole co-op thing and start over from step 1. It's the best advice you may ever see.
I have to add my second bit of advice, canvid don't run the word of mouth campaign, let someone like dman, who is more diplomatic, run it. Canvid is like that CEO over at bidbay. That guy needs serious PR.
posted on March 3, 2001 06:36:46 PM new
Hmmm Not real sure where labelle is comeing from with her last post myself.
As Far as A Business plan I sure do have one But it is Shifting around a bit I am tired of getting settled in to these different services like AW paypal yahoo and others that decide over night to change the way they do business before they ask the people they are doing business with what would works best for them as far as things like fees go.
paying nickles to launch auction weather they sell or not dont work in my small business I dont mind paying a fee but I need to pay for a service only when we get the actual sales.
Paying for a credit card services I dont mind paying for this service if it leads to a auction payment to my account as long as when there is a problem with one payment my whole account isnt locked Just the payment in question frozzen till its resolved.
Im tired of Juggleing MY Plan for others and jumping through hoops and incressing my bid prices for all these secondary services Running there advertizeing in my listing that I pay for, to have them turn around charge me for there advertizeing to be there !!
My Plan is calling to move away from this Type of insanity.
Weather It is done through a co-operative effort with a big group of sellers or my business moves On its own is no matter to me what so ever it is far easyer with a large group.
I have been selling for just over two years now I have went from 1 to 5 auction listing per week and maybe 1 to 2 sales per month to 20 to 40 auction per day running on ebay and just as many on 5 other Auction sites.
I have done this not only On my own but I have done it with out actually spending a penny of my personel money My whole business started and runs includeding every fee I pay to every service I use with advertizeing dollars I made from the internet includeing the inventory I sell.
I dont Know what business Plan A Co-Op has at this time right now there is two diffent co-op efforts going at least.
I have followed it all for months but have the same thoughts and on it pcalton and many others do.
we Need a co-op of sellers and co-op services Im not so sure co-op auction sites are out of the question but Im think there is to much focus on that subject makeing it more of a stumbleing block to getting interest and continued discussion.
One again I have said this before a co-op is about People not Auction venues, auction sites are secondary services people could sell from there own websites if they wanted shouldnt make a difference to a coop where you sell so long as they are honest sales your makeing.
posted on March 3, 2001 06:44:53 PM new
PC-"I have not seen a business plan, a mission statement, a list
of goals, nothing, nada, zip. "
No you haven't seen any of those things from me-personally- because they are not mine to show you.
Canvid has presented a set for discussion.
You said: [i]I'd take your money- as long as you were willing
to abide by the join and share [b]rules[/]there[/]
Every COOP has something called Bylaws- these are the rules for joining and working within the COOP. Like any organization- you read the Bylaws- which are the rules of the organization and decide whether you can abide by them whatever they may be . If NOT- you don't join. Pretty straightforward.
I assumed you were asking my opinion if I, personally, would do business with you at a later time- The comment I made was YEP- Forgive me if I didn't make plain by that my opinion of "join and share" meant Bylaws.You picked the example of sharing a customer base- so I , in the content of the situation answered- I'd be happy to take your money as long as you would be happy to abide by a theoretical Coops bylaws of Join and share..I didn't realize that that implied I had the authority to do so.
No one owns or has a COOP - much less me- it is strictly a legal entity. I assumed you knew that.
Who am I? Just a business person who feels that a group effort will be beneficial to the sellers who are disssatisfied with the current online climate.Coops have historical base in just this.I am also someone who is taking the time to do the grunt work for a COOP that is being fashioned. In time it will be presented when all of the Ts are crossed and the Is are dotted.
If you feel you are a joiner- there are any number of COOPs being worked on or already in existance.I just pointed out that joining any organization will mean abiding by their rules-Bylaws.At this stage those rules are just being formed and have no real substance to even argue about.This is why we are all asking for input. Your input is that you don't feel you should give up your customoer list-fine- if you are still COOP-minded- find one who doesn't want it.
We could go round on semantics. I still wish you luck!
posted on March 3, 2001 06:58:46 PM new
tentwentytwo-
In order to present any COOP plans- you have to get the opinions of many.This various people have asked for - here and elsewhere. There are no plans that are solid apparently from any group working on this or you would have heard about them. Please show me where I EVER asked you for a dime or I EVER tried to sell you anything. Without specifics- how could anyone with any sense present anything without months of work on a business plan.Secrecy- hmm I guess anyone working on a unique idea or any business plan will keep quite about specifics. That is business sense.
All I have seen anyone post anywhere here at AW has only been a request for help to do the work for the background on a business plan or give input on site ideas or wants.
There was a lot of silence for a long while about the COOPs- I thought I would try once more to open the door for participation. That is all.
posted on March 3, 2001 07:19:41 PM new
it would be unethical for me to turn over my customer list. if that was reqirement to be a member of your co-op then your co-op is not for me.
I'm going to dispose of your latest post point by point, then not waste any more time on this little version of delusion...
<<<tentwentytwo-
In order to present any COOP plans- you have to get the opinions of many.This various people have asked for - here and elsewhere.
>>>
Um, without even a MISSION STATEMENT, or at least a STATEMENT OF COMMON GOAL, what plan EXACTLY ***CAN*** you work on???
<<<There are no plans that are solid apparently from any group working on this or you would have heard about them.>>>
That's the single most accurate thing either you or your cohort have posted in MONTHS. NOOOO, there are NO solid plans "apparently"
from you people, and you are the only "faction" who posts literally HUNDREDS of messages on a public message board about it... Might I suggest that you spend less of your time playing Coop Tony Robbins, and MORE actually MAKING a plan, and THEN come back here and tell us about it and try to enlist support FOR SOMETHING SPECIFIC?
<<<Please show me where I EVER asked you for a dime or I EVER tried to sell you anything.>>>
READ YOUR OWN POSTS IN THIS VERY THREAD. THAT'S where... For MONTHS, the only 2 SPECIFIC things that you people have said about this Coop are- 1. It will be non-profit (which it BY IRS RULES can't be if it includes a "public" auction site), and 2. That it will be supported by FEES FROM ITS MEMBERS. That's called asking EVERYONE whose support you are soliciting for "a dime." PERIOD.
<<<Without specifics- how could anyone with any sense present anything without months of work on a business plan.>>>
Says something that you people HAVE been working on this for many months and CAN'T present specifics, doesn't it now...
<<<Secrecy- hmm I guess anyone working on a unique idea or any business plan will keep quite about specifics. That is business sense.>>>
The word is "quiet," and that's a RIDICULOUS STATEMENT when your stated purpose for posting here is fo enlist SUPPORT for a COOPERATIVE venture. FIRST, it's about as far from a "unique idea" as you can get. Second- What do you expect, to come here, post 100's of messages, and enlist support WITHOUT disclosing anything even RESEMBLING a business plan or mission statement??? THAT'S BUSINESS SENSE??? NOOO, that's NONSENSE.
<<<All I have seen anyone post anywhere here at AW has only been a request for help to do the work for the background on a business plan or give input on site ideas or wants.>>>
And ANYTHING that you or your podner haven't agreed with you've denigrated and/or ignored, look at your latest replies to Perry. You apparently don't want input judging from your posts when you actually GET IT, I suspect that I know what you DO want, though...
<<<There was a lot of silence for a long while about the COOPs- I thought I would try once more to open the door for participation. That is all. >>>
And there has been a LOT of noise in the past 2+ months about Coops, principally from your little niche. You are once more "opening the doors for participation"?
Funny. Asking people to participate in some non-specific, fee-based idea of a Coop auction site or association or WHATEVER is "opening a door"? When you're not willing or able to even produce a mission statement for it, so that people can actually KNOW what they're being recruited to participate in? (what a concept)...
And THAT'S all the time I'M spending on this. It's leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
posted on March 3, 2001 07:44:41 PM new
I hope folks think long and hard before they fork over any significant amount of money to ANY speculative venture. Creating a co-op owned auction site is a huge undertaking, with very long odds. Be leery of ANY requests for cash up front.
On the other hand, if the co-op auction site idea doesn't float your boat, but you want to join thousands of other sellers to be part of a non-profit collective voice for online auction users, to obtain group benefits and discounts, to establish ethical standards for online auction use, to conduct and benefit from independent evaluations of auction products and services, to lobby legislators to protect the interests of online auction sellers, and to place a logo on your auctions that confirms you membership and adherence to high standards.......that organization already exists. And has for over a year. And it has never asked a single member for a dime. No need to reinvent a wheel that took nearly a year to invent, and that was born of similar discussions here at AW two years ago.
Sweat equity. That's the ticket- if there's enough interest in a co-op auction site, the initial work can and should be done through dontations of time and services.
posted on March 3, 2001 09:12:33 PM new
Well folks, if you're looking for PR, I'd probably edit out comments like this in the future:
"Also expect to pay well to join any going concern- if you can even get in once it becomes successful. Because, by then, perhaps your money or input will not be needed or wanted."
That kind of separatist, elitist thinking, along with the suggestion that "planners" should carve themselves out a profit before the fact, and then charge the hell out of latecomers, is absolutely gut-wrenching.
PCalton, It's one thing to use eBay to build up your customer lists. It's another thing to use the co-op for the same purpose. Using the co-op for cheap advertising should NOT be allowed. This is what happens when folks try to run a co-op like a business, but fail to educate members (and themselves) on even the most basic cooperative principles.
Magazine_guy, I agree that OTWA offers a lot, but what protection does it give from fee increases?
I was referring to OAUA, not OTWA. The similar letters sometimes result in confusion. OAUA is an incorporated, non-profit association of online auction users. OTWA is a discussion board owned by Honesty/Andale, a for-profit corporation.
OAUA can't guarantee free memberships for life. That's not honest or realistic. OAUA's bylaws include provisions that would allow for charging dues in the future. That was a lawyer thing, and I think a good decision. But there have been no dues to date; in fact the Board just voted to change the membership agreement to remove any mention of dues (it was unneeded and was creating confusion).
I can envision a scenario, either with a co-op or with OAUA, in which a two tiered membership provided for a basic membership for free, and enhanced services or benefits in exchange for nominal dues. That said, OAUA currently has no plans to charge members any fees.
posted on March 3, 2001 09:41:21 PM new
Hi, Steve. Yes, I get those two groups confused. Sorry about that.
When I asked about fee increases, I meant, "what protection can a group like OAUA provide against fee increases at eBay and other auction sites?"
For all the good OAUA does, I do not think establishing a co-op sellers site would be reinventing the wheel at all. The most important benefits a co-op can offer are not presently offered by OAUA or any other group. Specifically, those benefits are (1) a stable trading environment, and (2) inexpensive listing fees (that is, with the profit portion removed).
(BTW, "Also expect to pay well to join any going concern..." is so against the spirit of cooperation that I am still reeling.)
posted on March 3, 2001 10:49:22 PM new
Your Right twinsoft that comment and a few Others made hear tonight really Cought me off guard as well.
My Understanding was a co-op was to Protect seller from thinking of that type.
It was always my understanding that a Co-operative was a group of people organized To produce a better profit for there product based on the standards the group agrees to be held to for there product.
AS an Auction seller my product Is not a Auction site my product is Collectable Music /movie & Related music/movie Memoribila mainly.
I would Think that a main goal of a Co-op would be to Research set standards and educate its member frist and formost in Understanding the Items they sell What to look for in Quility of the Inventory you purchase for resale.
I would think a goal of a Sellers Co-op would be to Educate its members in Packageing shipping labeling and customer service and to have set standards for member to uphold to to make buying items from Co-Op members far more desireable for bidders then buying from others.
I would think that a Goal Of a Co-Op would be to Set Standards on How Items should be listed in auctions Good Discriptiom methods the Right way to lay out Payment & Shipping options in your listing.
Education in Terms Of service and how terms are supose to be benificail and protect both Buyer and sellers. Online auctions is not a game of good guys and bad guys.
Educate and set standards On the proper use of HTML Color background and text in listing to Grab attention with out turning bidders off.
a goal of a Co-op should be standards and Education of its member for Return policies
The key to any Sellers Co-OP Should be Education and standards So that NO matter where you see a Co-Op banner or logo it says to all who see it Quality Seller and Merchandise.
this is just first and formost but not all.
The next thing a Co-Op should be about and do is to Make its members business a safe more sucure business it should offer for all who choose Group health dental insurance for individuals,employees and family.
It should Offer Group buying power to help its members save $$ On the things they need to keep there businesses running Boxes tape labels Computer hardware and software ECT.
Another goal of a Co-Op would be a place for Auction discussion and co-op discussion.
I would think the one thing a Co-Op would want to be is as flexable as it can be and Support its member no matter where they choose to sell.
The Co-Op could Have and operate a portal page and data base that only Co-Op members are in that it Advertizes that has a search engine of Co-op Members auctions no matter what auction site they sell on.
This is some of what a co-op should be and can be about.
And these types of thing I have mentioned Take No $$$ just some hard work and effort from interested partys to actually discuss research and put these standards in to writeing and the education in to action.
This is not to say that co-op members may not band togeather to build a niche auction site of there own.
but if we dont get togeather On The Ideals of the co-op organizing if we dont get togeather on what services The co-op will provide what standards the co-op will exspect from its member I dont think we will ever get organized.
I have had people write me recently saying they are working out the terms of service for the Co-Op.
My Reply to them was "Terms of service" for the Co-Op??? I havent even heard or seen any services as of yet a co-op has planed to offer!. these things have not even been talked about or decided as far as I know.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:44:15 AM new
Hi, Dman. I'm not sure if I made myself clear. I'll try again in case I wasn't clear before. Co-op members must take the time to educate themselves and other members specifically about co-operative business ethics. There is more to it than simply paying half the regular fees.
Many people seem to envision a co-op as a place where they are free from any constraints. For example, a lot of folks have suggested that a co-op should not have some kind of VeRO program. Hello?! VeRO is the law, it is not specific to eBay. Other sellers imagine placing full-sized banners to their own web pages. Using the co-op's cheap resources to close sales off-site would be harmful to the co-op and should not be allowed.
Potential members need to realize that in order for a co-op to succeed, each member must contribute to the co-op's growth. There are principles involved, beyond "everybody make as much money as you can." This is more than taking a traditional business, stripping out the profit, and calling it a "co-op." That's why I have said from the start that the co-op should be for people who need it, and are willing to work for the benefit of the co-op, and not those looking for just another auction site.
I've seen a couple of things in this thread which concern me. One is the claim that "we're not asking anyone for money" which is a crock. We all know better than that. Hey, if you want to ask for money, then ask. But at least come up with a business plan first. The second thing bugging me is the idea that the original planners or original members should create a set of bylaws which favors them financially (i.e., lower fees for planners). That kind of **** is exactly what we are trying to get AWAY from. Let me put this in plain English: No one on the co-op's Board Of Directors or any other administrative body should made one cent of profit from the co-op. Period. And that goes for giving yourselves lower fees. If the planners can't handle that, they're not ready for a co-op.
If this is worth doing, it's worth doing right. Suggestions of a "window of opportunity" (followed close by a call for membership drive) make no sense. The need for a co-op will not diminish. Take a look around. This latest announcement of AW fees should have brought even more support to the co-op; instead the co-op has become a joke. We've seen support at AW go from hundreds to just a small handful. The rest are laughing. Now that bill is coming due.
posted on March 4, 2001 07:35:12 AM new
I have been faithfully follwing the CO-OP saga and here are my observations.
I've been to the ez-boards, Cathy's web page, to the chat room, every place that I'm aware of to try and get more info. I FIND NONE!
No one has posted to the ez-boards in days.
I've signed up on the mailing lists to be notified of any progress....theres been none.
All I seem to read is we NEED HELP for the planning of this thing.
Now I know when this idea was brought up a month or two ago by Jamie & Steve right here on this board. There were TONS of experts offering there help.
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
A lot of us don't have the expertise to offer......BUT.....we have offered our support and dollars to make this thing happen.
So far......
NO MISSION STATEMENT (altho I've seen a few good ones offered)
NO BUSINESS PLAN!
NO NOTHING!
I guess I would have expected that as you brought the "experts" on board we(being the ones who signed up and the people of these boards) would have been keep informed of any and all progress.
Such as:
Ok folks,
So far we have a banker, lawyer, computer geek, now we need a business consultant, a PLANNER so on and so forth.
Ok folks,
Here is the progress we have made so far.
THEN TELL US......WHY THE SECRECY?
At the very least the ones that have signed up giving you our e-mail addresses should be keeped informed.
I'VE HEARD NOTHING SO FAR.
Where is that planning committe at?
From what I'm seeing none of you have put your heads together on anything....ya'all got your own ideas..PERIOD..... and none of you seem to want to come together and compromise on anything.
Like it or not we need a LEADER, self-appointed or otherwise, it don't matter. We need someone to TAKE CHARGE and start TELLING us EXACTLY what is needed.
I offered a month ago to go through the very first 2 threads and gather all the e-mails from those that were eager to help with what they know. Make a list of what they could do to help. I got NO resonse to that offer..oh well.. As we move into spring my time becomes more limited.
SH!T OR GET OFF THE POT!!!!!!
I WANT US TO CREATE A SAFE PLACE FOR BUYERS TO BUY WITH CONFIDENCE! They are ready for that.....most are tired of being burnt on eBay and everywhere else. Just look at their complaints on these boards.
Busy day ahead. I'm going to answer a few questions.
Perry: Please quote where anyone asked for your list?? Because I said I'd use mine and another user said he'd use his doesn't mean we asked you anything? However your reaction says quite a bit....
Magazine Guy: Your association won't be of much good as your members are being pushed out of Ebay. I betcha a year from now Ebay will be mostly corporate sellers with the small folks being pushed to Yahoo and niche sites. I agree with what you folks are trying to do but I also see two or three groups and like a previous poster asked, "What have you folks done?" I think a group like yours should be working with any and all co-op groups as we are probably the future for your type of group.
As for funds, well, you get what you pay for and unfortunately in this world it sometimes takes more than grunt work to make things happen. Whether it takes nothing or $10, $20, $500, or even $5,000 per member we will come to a point when we all will have to make decisions. In the long run though a co-op that is successful will reduce overall costs, not increase them.
I don't expect us to agree with each other. I won't get into anymore pissing wars with any of you.
What I am doing is working in a direction on a very difficult goal. If others wish to work on the common goal then terrific. If not I wish you the best. It's pretty simple.
There's also a difference between disagreeing over how something should be done and over whether it can be done.
Cathy and I for example don't agree with quite a few issues and the direction that we are even heading in but we have worked together on our common goals? Where are all of you folks??
I'm not much of a Trekkie, but I always loved Scotty whining about how this something couldn't be done, but then somehow he'd scratch his head and get the job done.
That's what we're trying to do, make our common goal's happen. We don't have all the answers yet but we're getting there!
So you can call me names, criticize me, lie about what I've said or misquote me. You can do whatever you want against the creation of a co-op but I and others will try and continue.
posted on March 4, 2001 08:40:28 AM new
Hey Jamie-
I'm going back on my little promise not to post to point out something to everyone reading your ummm **** who might buy into it. Your posts are AIR. FLUFF. Pseudo-Tony Robbins "rahrah" crap, as I said before, and anyone who doesn't agree with it is your enemy to be demeaned. Your posts NEVER contain anything substantial, you NEVER ONCE in months have come to these boards and said "THIS is exactly what we've done, EXACTLY what we are doing, and EXACTLY what we WILL do..." You bloviate and bloviate, and the bottom line of this bloviation is- you've done NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH, that you've presented to the Community from which you're trying to enlist support and (probably more importantly to you) GET MONEY, while at the same everyone has to read your UNENDING criticism of what everybody else except YOU have not done.
You unbelievably want to leave the impression that you and some indeterminate group of "others" are working tirelessly behind the scenes to create this Coop that would be of benefit to everyone, YET IN MONTHS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO PRESENT **ANYTHING** TO THE COMMUNITY...
For a person who has NOTHING, yes, ZERO, to offer to the Community you purport to want to "help" <barf>, you surrrre talk too much, and I'm obviously not the only one who thinks it's getting REALLLLy old... It wouildn't be so bad if your underlying message EVEN IN YOUR LAST POST wasn't "gimme money," but that IN FACT IS your message...
I challenge ANYONE reading these never-ending threads to point to ONE, yes JUST ONE, post by you or your cohort that presents a substantial, coherent view of whatever you're trying to do and HAVE DONE... And that includes YOU. I won't hold my breath.
My concern is that a co-op auction site has little chance of longivity unless new business is brought in.
Much like how a praymid system will eventually fail because it will run out of new investors to build another level, an auction site will fail that depends ONLY on the customer base of its own members soliticing each other and their own customer base. There must be an inflow of new, buyers, investors, and sellers.
In order for me to keep some of my product lines alive I need new customers.
For example: I currently have customers who have bought from me wiget styles #1 to #100 - when I add the style #101 they buy it, but I need new customers to come along who are intertested in wiget styles #1 - #100 because I still have a gross of each style in stock.
I will eventually sell those old styles in the numerous outlets I sell at. A new auction site comes along and I list there. If I sell there I keep listing, if I don't sell there I eventually stop listing there. My observation is that sites where there is extensive traffic is where the sales are, regardless of how many items I have listed.
I hope this makes sense.
If an auction sites produces sales for me then I keep listing - the auction site makes money and I make money, a mutally beneficial relationship. I need sales to produce a profit so I can stay in business. And, a co-op auction site must be a place that sales are going on sufficient enough to produce revenues to keep the venture afloat. The drafts I have read on these discussions have mentioned that co-op fees earned from sales is part of the formula for producing income for the co-op.
I don't think my business approach and product lines are that much differernt form other sellers. My sales and profits are driven my the inflow of new buyers. Without a good flow of fresh interests in my product lines my sales would be contigent on stirring interests within my own capitivated customer list.
Gosh, I selectively add new products to my inventory on a regularly basis but that is hardly a strategy effective enough to stimulate sales that is equal to growth generated by new buyers.
From what I understand, there a at least to co-ops in the works. One co-op seems less motivated to start an auction site (an approach that may be prudent) and another non-profit co-op that is eager to start an auction site (a big project). A corporation that is non-profit does not remove the necessity of it maintaining capital for solvency. It is my point of veiw, you may agree or disagree, that a non-profit co-op with an auction site must be a profitable venture and that longivity will depend on that co-op auction site bringing in new buyers.
You have made your self clear on these matters more then once, AndI understood it each time.
our main Sticking point here isnt really a Co-OP or the need for one most or a majority seem to agree there.
The Sticking point and the disagreement come each time we get togeather and discuss this no matter where the discussion happen when people start talking Auction site.
I feel the survey is in on this point 95% of all who have came to discuss this agree building a Auction site should not be goal one building a co-op should be there is plenty of auction sites out there to work with and many more will pop up over time.
3% who have come to discuss this think an auction site is the only thing a co-op should be about.
1% Could careless
and yet another 1% simply say it will never happen or work.
I for one am for getting over the sticking point, Get the Co-op as a group togeather lets decide what services it can offer members for now build a mission statement and bylaws to cover the co-op as a group of seller no matter what auction site or web store they sell at.
build in to the future plans for a co-op the posibility of co-op auction sites.
get the agreement of all involved and coporation The main goal of these discussion is to organize and build a co-op.
What a co-op is hopeing to acheive is a better working environment in which to auction our good and services.
Face it Even if a co-op had its own auction site No one could garentee Lower fees to sell for very long the prices always incress for everything, Fees for listing and selling might start out cheaper but if a co-op auction site were to become popular and grow Huge it would find its self in the same boat as any other for profit company that need to exspand weekly and monthly to suport its growth.
Remember most of the auction sites out there now have several means built in for income not just fees to list and FVF and most still need to incress there fees and FVF and find new bells and wistles to add and charge for to incress income to continue exspanding to support there rate of growth.
even being non-profit you would have to make the $$ need to exspand non-profit just means the no member profits from its member ship or fees the only pay off is the satisfaction of its growth and sucess.
I Would say that a fair statment for any Co-Op organiztion to make to people its trying to interest in its plan to build an auction site would be not that in the long run it will be Cheaper for us all but that in the long run it will cost us about the same or a little more but in the end the co-op services will be more benificail to the large and small sellers as they all have a say in what is and isnt done.
posted on March 4, 2001 09:17:48 AM new
It would cost millions to start an enterprise-level auction site. A $30 web hosting account and a freeware cgi auction script using a free database like MySQL doesn't cut it. If one wants to play in the same sandbox as Ebay be prepared for some of the following:
1. Enterprise Oracle Licenses: $100K +
2. Sun Enterprise 1000 servers: $1,237,710.00 EACH
3. Oracle DBA's: $150 and up per hour
4. Programmers, Developers etc: Name your price
5. T3 Redundant Enterprise level hosting:
$5K to $100K monthly
Add Marketing, Advertising, Accounting, Administration and Executive Management salary overhead to the above then talk about what you have to pay to bring traffic (buyers) in. Not all of the Dot.com Investor bucks go for catered meals and $1000 conference room chairs.
posted on March 4, 2001 09:59:39 AM new
Thanks Magazine Guy! Good to see your group accomplishing something. I hope we are as successful as your group has been! You guys should share this news more publicly.
Tapatti: Gee, you give examples that are both extremes? Why would we need the equivalent of Ebay at the beginning??
I'm not suggesting we go shoestring but we have to look at where we hope to be on DAY 1 - DAY 30 - DAY 60 and see if our projected goals = our projected needs? If it's viable then we go ahead.
There are a many alternatives in between what you've suggested. And we've already had offers from several companies that want to work with us.
Also, on the tech end. Servers can be added very very easily, so can bandwith. We can expand as our needs arise.
And yes, marketing is huge factor. It's one of the reason we are actively starting to get press coverage including a great story by Ed Ritchie here on AW!
We need more of the spirit of Magazine_Guy's group though. More elbow grease instead of some of the other type of energy.
When I read some of the posts here on AW I just shake my head and wonder if this is the best place to continue this conversation.
I mean, if I were to follow the logic of some of your posts what is the solution?? None of you are suggesting an alternative and griping is not an alternative.
So instead of trashing me and the people working towards this why not work on some solution and share it with all of us??
Yes I admit I gave examples from the far right extreme and yes it could be done for less. Sun pricing was also list and I fully agree one would have to be nuts to spend a million on a server. However a general consumer auction site would have to plan on scalability from the get go. Perhaps a specialty niche auction site could be started on a shoestring but to make a major impact a CtoC auction site would need at minimum two full-time developers. On contract market contract rates that would set you back at least $150K. The average natioanl figure to launch a standard e-commerce site is now $1 million.
I'm not trying to be discouraging but I have personal knowledge of how little $150K will get you in developing a site. A lot of SOHO people see little tiny numbers and the word free a lot. Plow through 10 IT trade journals a week and you can see the $$$$ that's being charged for the big boy stuff.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:22:37 PM new
Pcalton, I'm not talking about bringing your customer lists to the co-op. I'm talking about members who use their co-op ads strictly as a means to build up mailing lists, and then circumvent the co-op's sales (fee) structure. I don't mean the occasional off-site sale. I mean sellers who use the co-op's resources to purposely draw business away from the co-op.
Dman, I'm sorry but you have really lost me this time. You're saying that now 95% of people don't want an auction site? Who are these people and what do they want? This is what you get for trying to sugar-coat the co-op and promise it will be all things to all people. Like bringing in bidders as members. Or creating a for-profit sellers association. Unfortunately it seems that no one in your group has been able to state honestly what the co-op should be about, and to keep discussions in line. That's probably why the "co-op" that you are discussing defies description. You guys have no idea what you're doing.
Jamie, you've torpedoed every effort anyone has made, and offended everyone who voluteered to help. You let everyone know they're "part of the problem." So let's see your results. Weeks later, and have you even come up with a single paragraph containing your mission statement? Funny, now your group (I count three people) can't seem to agree on what a co-op is. You're playing games.
Tapatti, you're putting the cart before the horse. We don't need huge capital to get started. Why do people always think they co-op has to knock eBay out of the water, or else it's a failure? Take all the resources of Yahoo, MSN, and Amazon combined, and you're still whistling in the dark. If the co-op succeeds, it won't be by meeting eBay head on.
If you cant see the posts of these people saying they are interested in a co-op but dont think a co-op auction site will work and that they will sell there items where the buyers are maybe your not reading the same threads I am.
I never tried to sugar coat anything about the Co-op I have stated it will be all things for all people and that is what is causeing all the sticking points .
The co-op is one Idea for you another for pcalton yet another for Canvid ECT. its all Ready all thing to all people.
We must bring buyers in to the Co-op it Nessary if your Going to have a Co-Op auction site to lure in buyers the more the better.
Im not suggesting a Co-op charge buyers fees as members or any such thing but the main key to this effort will be buyers and bids and sales that make this effort a sucess.
If you want sucess Think Buyers, Great build an auction site call it a Co-Op or anything else but I think pcalton has summed it up well No sales No one will sell there for long.
you will have a site with many inactive members and no buyers members will be to busy selling on other venues to take care of a co-OP if it cant provide buyers and produce sales.
I dont know of any discussion I have read about creating a for-profit sellers association.
there may be one but I havent seen it at this time.
I dont think what is being done defies decription at all.
what many of the people have been saying is a co-op is a good Idea but they fear a co-op auction site with out a huge effort and out put of money in advertizeing will fail most like the Idea Of a co-op more in the lines of a sellers Union or association that can work and deal with exsiting Auction sites Where they are already makeing sales a combined effort.
And This Co-Op effort is finding it hard to near imposable to conveince sellers to just dump there current Venues where they are makeing there $$$ now and where people are buying from them.
another words people are complaining about incressed costs but with the exspetion of yahoo no one is really upset or worried enough to walk out on Ebay or most other services and the one who are would rather give up then fight to survive.
Maybe all sellers are far smaller then all includeing ebay think they are.
In any case no group is "MY Group" I am just one person adding a few points and Idea's in the discussion like all the others.
As for weather I know what I am doing , I Know what I am doing here for myself My this is a hobby for me since 1971.
I have 30 years of background in my Hobby and 8 years building my online sales, Online auctions are one small part of any hobby.
