posted on March 7, 2001 02:21:07 PM
Trying to settle a disagreement on another thread.....
IF Sellers were to form some sort of sales and/or auction site, how many buyers would NOT mind receiving unsolicited e-mail from them, if one of the sellers happened to sell you something once before?
Would you check the site out, especially if there was a significant discount announced in the e-mail as an incentive?
posted on March 7, 2001 02:27:11 PM
Hi Barb,
If the email came from someone I had done previous business with...NO, I would not mind, I would check out what they had to offer or say.
However, To get my attention it would have to be in the subject line that we did previous business. Otherwise I would not even open it and it would get deleted with all the other "junk"
posted on March 7, 2001 02:38:12 PM
I would consider it spam -- i.e., "Unsolicited" really says it all. New sites are a dime a dozen and fade away just as fast. If it is something substantial, it will be in the media or else some reputable site will market it.
I remember getting emails from disgruntled eBay sellers who were moving lock, stock and barrel to Golds....
posted on March 7, 2001 02:51:06 PM
Yes, it would be considered spam. But then, isn't that how BidVille ( AKA: AuxPal ) managed to go from Zero to a Half-Million listings in a matter of a couple months.
If you remember, there was a thread before about the way they harvested email addresses off of Ebay and sent out spam that gave the impression they were partnering with PayPal to launch the first "only PayPal" auction site ???
Here is the AW Article about PayPal's official response:
posted on March 7, 2001 03:06:58 PM
I occasionally receive e-mail from someone I had previously purchased from. I don't really mind as it usually is about something in which I have an interest. If I'm not in the mood I delete it.
In the context of the 'new site', I think if it was a one time 'this is what I'm doing and if you don't want to hear any more about it please reply with "unsubscribe"' I would be OK with that.
I get tons of 'unsolicited' mail and I delete tons every morning before I settle in to read what's left. But most of the sellers or buyers that I've dealt with having been very nice people and it doesn't cost me anything to hear what they have to say.
The only one I find truly offensive is the "enlarge your p---s", and I've gotten that one three times in this week alone.
posted on March 7, 2001 03:22:38 PM"Yes, it would be considered spam. But then, isn't that how BidVille ( AKA: AuxPal ) managed to go from Zero to a Half-Million listings in a matter of a couple months?"
Actually I read on some thread it was due to "recipies"!
posted on March 7, 2001 03:55:56 PM
A short while back there was a thread about sellers who use services like Andale where the buyer is directed to an online form they have to fill out to complete the auction. Many posters here were quite adamant that they did not want to use those forms for privacy reasons.
They did not like the idea that their personal information, including email addresses would be stored somewhere online...they were concerned with their information being sold to others (or being passed on when the dot com was sold)and then getting spam.
What does this have to do with the question posed in this thread? Well, it seems that what is being proposed is for sellers to take thier list of customers who have "opted-in" for information about items that particular seller has and the sellers "selling-giving" that customer's name to another group. The customer didn't opt-in for that type of a mailing list.
Spam or not (and I think it is spam), the whole idea seems sleazy...and for sellers who do not like ebay's "greed", it seems this is something that would elicit horible screams of outrage if ebay were to do it to us.
this thread is what it is... just a simple question to find out what buyers think of unsolicited e-mail ... please don't imply it is more than that. Nothing is being "proposed" here. I personally don't like any form of spam, but was wondering what other people thought.
Edited to say: Even though opted-in newsletters is being discussed in another thread, certainly "selling/giving" to someone else was not discussed, and is something I would NEVER do. If I went to another site started by sellers, I would e-mail and offer discounts to my OWN opted-in news group of buyers MYSELF.
You are reading things in that just are not there. We are SO far away from forming any kind of seller group like what is being discussed, and getting to the sales/auction stage of it it isn't funny. I don't understand why your posts are so combative. This thread was just to get a feel for what buyers think about unsolicited email, and that is all.
[ edited by oxford on Mar 7, 2001 04:09 PM ]
[ edited by oxford on Mar 7, 2001 04:12 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 05:17:10 PM
It would be SPAM, and it would be unappreciated.
And the site an seller would both be treated to my anti-spam special ... possibly leading to the site and/or the spammer getting disconnected from the net.
Any site that encourages its users to spam is likely to suffer some connectivity problems.
posted on March 7, 2001 05:35:10 PM
This is not spam as some people say. If you've bought from the person before it is perfectly legit for them to send you info. If the seller said "I have a new site I'm starting up," that is fine. If they said, someone else has a new site, that may cross the line.
posted on March 7, 2001 06:22:48 PMquickdraw29 I have to completely disagree with you. It is SPAM, plain and simple. The key word here is UNSOLICITED.
oxford, to answer you question, it is SPAM, I don't want it. I would report the seller to safeharbor and their ISP for spam. If I get lucky, they will be suspended from ebay and have their internet access cut off.
Greg
P.S. who ever came up with the idea of an OPT-OUT list should be taken out and slowly force feed all of the spam ever sent out.
posted on March 7, 2001 06:35:44 PM
If it was from someone I'd bought from, it wouldn't bother me as long as it came from them directly ... not having been passed on to anyone else!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Five cents is fine! FVF? Forgedaboutit!
posted on March 7, 2001 07:16:49 PM
If it was a previous business contact, who had not explicitly received my permission to send me messages after our transaction, their email would be sent to ebay and their ISP. I've gotten sellers suspended that way.
Spam puts the costs of advertising on the recipient. In that way it is somewhat unique. One large ISP estimated that 20% of their mail server activity is to process unwanted spam. That's 20% of their users monthly fee that is for unsolicited email. I'm not interested in subsidizing anybodys advertising expenses.
Whether it has a discount or not makes no difference. Every UCE I receive has some kind of "special offer".
posted on March 7, 2001 10:41:27 PM
If it was from a seller I had previously purchased from I would probably check it out because it might interest me. But, as a one time thing only~If I repeatedly received email such as this from the same seller, I wouldn't even read it.
A nice discount would probably guarantee that I would check it out.
Citygirl
posted on March 8, 2001 01:37:17 AM
I would not/do not like receiving unsolicited commercial email. And if I received an email from someone I had purchased from on eBay inviting me to check out their listings on another auction site, I'd likely report them to eBay, since that is an abuse of my information where I registered.
posted on March 8, 2001 04:34:14 AM
quickdraw29 -
A previous purchase does not give anyone the right to send any emails not 100% related to that purchase to me unless I give them permission.
SPAM = Unsolicited Commercial EMAIL ...
If I didn't ask for it, it's UNSOLICITED.
If they hop to profit by itm, it's COMMERCIAL.
And if it lands in my email account, it's EMAIL.
I was in disagreement with a couple of quotes from the thread above:
"However, for a co-op database, all bidders should be included for a one-time email inviting them to the new site and offering a %25 discount"
"There is a risk with sending past buyers a one-time note that a SPAM zealot will turn you in. There is a risk, and there is a reward. I doubt a one-time email would offend many people. Something you would all have to decide if it's worth it I guess."
I decided to go right to the people whose opinion REALLY mattered, the buyer, and ask their feelings regarding unsolicited e-mail, often referred to as "spam". Some businesses, with the goals of more profit and cheap advertising, manage to justify it to themselves; I, however, have never seen a justification for spam. (I am SUCH a zealot!).
This thread, however, reveals somewhat of a split among buyers, for and against spam.(much to my surprise, actually! Thought everyone would be against...)
There were STILL enough against spamming that I still would say that it is not a good advertising or business plan for any future sales or auction site, even if the spam came from the seller to buyers they have dealt with.
An opted-in newsletter style list would be different, providing that such a list would never be released to [u]anyone[/u] else.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:03:29 AM
I don't open anything if I don't know the sender, for fear of viruses. (I've been burned once already). I also flat out HATE spam.
How do you report it to the spam cops and their ISP? I would love to report every spam I get.
My next question about spam....does anybody else get those spams from people whose accounts are just a jumble of letters and numbers, and when you reply to 'unsubscribe' there is no such account?
posted on March 13, 2001 08:45:28 AM
If a seller (eBay, other online, offline, whatever) politely asks me if I'd be interested in being added to a newsletter or other mailing/calling list, only does so if I am the one that writes "yes" (no tricks like having an already-checked "yes" marker), and I say yes, then any email I subsequently receive from that particular seller is thus solicited, and thus NOT spam. This is opt-in email, and it is the only form of direct marketing that I find acceptable. Believe it or not, I have signed up on a few such well-run commercial lists.
In theory, the "you bought something from me so I have the right to send you additional marketing" idea wouldn't be that big a deal, except for three things that have become increasingly problematic over the past decade or two: the volume of resulting marketing tends to be high and very long lasting; and some of these companies (including colleges and pharmacies, among many others) sell information to other direct marketers; and telemarketing (which should always be opt-in, IMO). Add in all the bulk (e)mail sent by parties that aren't even indirectly connected to an actual purchase I made, and I've simply gotten sick of it all, and have lost what tolerance I once had for such marketing.
That is why I have come to believe the only acceptable form of direct marketing is fully opt-in, and fight all other forms. Truly heavy bulk spammers, telemarketers, and other mass abusers have spoiled the well for what could have been an otherwise acceptable or at least fairly easily tolerable form of marketing. Some consumers may still drink from this well, even throw good money at it, but it is increasingly sickening for others.
Just my opinions (however strong); but directed at either general problems or at hypothetical situations, not at anyone in particular.
[ Edited to add: ] The underpinnings of why I find the increasing abuses to be just that is because most forms of direct marketing spend your time (and maybe money) for you. Sorting out junk mail, making sure a bill isn't mixed in, shredding CC offers, arguing with pushy telemarketers (or paying for CallerID and still having to get up to check), watching spam download (and paying a higher ISP cost because they have to buy more server volume to handle the extra volume spam causes) or paying for a filter. It's all small bits of time (or money), but at current averages factored for an average adult lifetime, reaches towards the equivalent of five months of work days (and maybe $4000, at current rates for minimal CallerID and an occasional filtering program)! All for an overall average 0.5% response rate, at best. Sure, it works, but at what cost to the average recipient? Yes, the hypothetical situation at the top of this thread is small, but sorry, at this point, I'd consider it to be but one more part of the problem.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ edited by dc9a320 on Mar 13, 2001 08:57 AM ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Mar 13, 2001 08:59 AM ]
posted on March 13, 2001 09:10:03 AM
Spam do it and I will report you.
You want to sell me something, then offer it and be done with it. Trying to get me to go to another auction site, just pisses me off.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on March 13, 2001 01:21:55 PM
There are about a half dozen sellers I buy from regularly, and I would welcome such an offer from any of them. If I bought something, once, a year ago, from a seller and they started emailing me it might be a different story, I wouldn't welcome that. It's kind of a fine line.
When Yahoo sellers started jumping ship en masse I recieved around 15 emails from different sellers that I'd bought merchandise from (the sellers themselves, NOT the site) telling me that they were going to start selling on Auxpal/Bidville. I read the first email and wasn't particularly offended by it. After about the third email I started to get really frustrated with the whole thing. None of them were people I'd bought more than one item from either, and one was a seller I'd left neutral feedback for because her item description was misleading. Did I rush right out and register at Bidville? No I did not.
The point is, to be effective, the emailing, if it happens at all, should be to a closely targeted group that would actually WELCOME it. You don't really want to be the one sending the fifteenth email to some poor customer do you?
I say that if you're going to do a mass campaign, it's better to do it by snailmail, with hard copies of the coupons and everything. If you make the invitations look like invitations it would be a nice touch, and they would be less likely to get thrown out. It would be a bit more work and a bit more expense, but if every seller did that for their own customers I think it would be less offensive than a mass emailing. That way no one could accuse anyone of spreading viruses, no one would threaten to pull the plug on the site, etc. Plus the invitations could be tucked in packages that each seller is currently sending out, which I think would be fine- if something like that were in any of the 5 auction boxes I had recieved yesterday, I would have gone straight to the computer to check out the offer.
The snail mail invitiation idea is a really good one!! I agree that that would probably be the most well-received type of communication for "mass" mailing. As I said before, I am very much against spamming of anyone but an opt-in group; however, I never did think of this idea.
So thanks CAgrrl - I'm going to use your suggestions!
posted on March 13, 2001 01:46:15 PM
No, I don't mind invitations that are integrated with an ongoing transaction. Someone asking if I'd like to be on a mailing list (opt-in), I certainly don't mind. I don't mind a few lines stating they have a website, or that they also sell somewhere else. As long as I don't end up with an EOA that is one paragraph on the current transaction and three on something else. A short paragraph near or at the end of the EOA or the "we got your payment" note could incorporate all of the above:
Check out .... on eBay, Yahoo, and Amazon.
We also have a website full of .... -- stop by at http://www....com/
Would you like to be added to our newsletter, which has __ and __? If so,
write that you would, in your reply, and we will add your email address to that one list.
If not all apply, something shorter (<= 4 lines) would work well in a .sig
I'm not sure how well eBay would care for all of the above, but from a spam vs. not spam standpoint, incorporating some brief direct marketing in a note that already has to be sent as part of an existing transaction, is not spam to me.
It is the 15 sellers sending notes to a single buyer that is exactly one of numerous reasons I don't want former sellers emailing me if I haven't opted-into such a thing. I've bought items from dozens of sellers, and if they all decided to start sending me once-a-month updates, that alone would be adding 50% to my already re-growing spam load.
If UCE started being seen as "legitimate" by more sellers or companies, for whatever reason, you can bet many will start doing exactly this sort of thing, and we'll all end up buried under several times more junk than now. The fact that spam is still highly controversial and lowly regarded by most is what keeps some potential spammers sitting on the fence, or even away from the fence, instead of happily sending UCE.
At least IMO.
[ edited by dc9a320 on Mar 13, 2001 03:30 PM ]
posted on March 13, 2001 02:12:30 PM
Junk mail kills trees and ends up in landfills, but that is considered legitimate and okay for some stupid reason, while an email that takes 2 seconds to delete is considered some gross abuse of privacy.
No, I'm not a spam fan - get plenty of it myself. Repeated offers to get rich quick or get a diploma are annoying (though for me, not worth my time to report).
But a one-time email that is really one-time, i.e., you are added to the opt-out list immediately? I don't see the huge injustice, especially with everyone complaining about sites raising fees.
You slam an inexpensive advertising mechanism that can be used to build a business, and simultaneously complain about fees. Tough crowd...
I just got a postcard from a furniture store I bought something from 6 years ago. Get one about every year. I guess I should spend half a day reporting them to the USPS for gross abuse of my personal information.
Jim
(And no, we haven't sent out email advertisements; the zealots have us held hostage, so we have to send out postcard direct mail that costs us thousands of dollars, and 90% of it will end up in landfills. Yeah, that's a much better idea.)
