morgantown
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posted on March 7, 2001 04:33:05 PM new
I belive the CoOp pricing needs to be well below eBay's. I'd like a well designed, thought-out simple site. Not one that is tweeked monthly with new gizmos, just the basics. A strong basic site. Canvid you were scaring me the other day with all that talk of corporate merchandising and linking. 
Question of the day answer: 2.5% FVF plus reasonable one time membership fee.
Mtown
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morgantown
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posted on March 7, 2001 04:38:47 PM new
Nobody said they didn't want to pay anyfees, did they? Kewl out...
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 04:45:30 PM new
Hi Morgan,
I'm quite kewl! It's hard to blow steam in a humorous manner on a message board!
Jamie
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twinsoft
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posted on March 7, 2001 04:57:34 PM new
I think a "co-op question of the day" is a very good idea. Maybe someone will put this thread out of its misery and allow it to be locked, so a new thread could be started specifically for questions of the day and responses.
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 05:02:39 PM new
Typos!
[ edited by canvid13 on Mar 7, 2001 05:02 PM ]
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 05:02:45 PM new
This thread has no need to be put out of it's misery any more than certain posters need to be!
Jamie
canvid13
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pcalton
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posted on March 7, 2001 05:13:21 PM new
canvid13,
don't hold back, go ahead and say what you really think and feel.
why must you insult others?
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 05:38:04 PM new
Perry, Twinsoft, and any others.
Grow up!
Time is ticking and a co-op needs to be built. Enough of the kid time games. I know it's endemic of message boards but this is a serious neccesity for thousands of small sellers most likely including yourselves! In a year from now there will probably only be small niche sites for small sellers unless we pull together as a group.
Either help or please step aside. Some of us are working very hard to try and build something.
If you want to be part of the process then by all means there's plenty of work to do.
We are throwing out questions to help make this happen. It's very simple. We have only one thread to work in on AW.
Either you're part of the solution or part of the problem.
If a co-op fails it won't be because of its merits but because of us failing to make it happen.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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pcalton
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posted on March 7, 2001 06:23:26 PM new
I am 50 years old and refuse to grow up.
I don't appreciate you putting me down like a child.
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 06:47:30 PM new
Perry I think I'll take some of your advice!
Thanks,
Jamie
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dman3
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posted on March 7, 2001 07:09:09 PM new
This Question is an easy one it has been brought up A Few Times here and other places.
Sellers Dont mind paying fees, But Sellers need to sell the Item to pay the fee.
People dont mind paying month service bills.
We Need an Auction site with a monthly fee like $19.95 or $25 flat out for all after all its no ones business but the person selling How many items they list so long as there inside the law and venue rules.
The site can charge FVF this way a seller is only paying for items that they sell and the site and sellers are incouraged to go out and advertize for more buyer the higher the bid prices the better for both win win situation.
Also all this gives people interested a reason to go out speard the word and interest others because inorder for fees like this to work out it will need many buyers and sellers come ing in to this from the start.
For starters for Advertizeing since this will be a auction site ran buy sellers efforts lets advertize with reverse linking instead of adding link to your listings to your web page and stores link from your stores and webpages to the auction site.
The web is nothing but millions of billboards linking to other billboards even if the billboard is a store or an auction site well instead of haveing an auction site with a link to a million other stores and web pages why not millions of webpages and store leading to the auction site.
One of the main reasons for ebay sucess isnt its TV and magazine ads its main sucess is because 9 of every 10 web pages you visit have a link to ebay Ebays name and logo is in your face no matter where you turn on the web.
Go in to a chat room there is Ebay Go into a message board there is ebay search engine there is ebay Thing is Ebay has millions of registered users paying so ebay can afford these ads on line but What if thousand or million of co-op users were to host co-op ads What if co-op members started a co-op page on there web sight and each member submited these co-op pages to search engines
What if the Co-op logo were to start showing up on member web sites member chat room message boards, classifide pages webrings news groups soon no matter where you turn the Co-op logo links and ads are found no matter where you turn.
Thats just the free advertizeing ideas each and every member can provide that isnt even pay banner advertizeing or magazine ads media attention even talked about yet.
As far as start up costs if we get serious and work out the mision statement bylaws we can get down to makeing an the honest business plan nessary to get any grants and goverment money that might be avalable to use.
Start up wont be huge like 3 years back there is lots of equipment out there from fail sites for sale low cost good harware and softwear
Thing is it need to be low cost idea of a co-op is to save on costs there is no reason fix flat monthly fees of $19 to $25 cant work with a fair FVF.
Sellers I feel are looking for an all in one tool auction site auction management and payment tools all rolled into one company at a fair monthly service fee.
it can work it depends on everyones effort to work togeather we all sell there must be more then a few fair sales people that can convinces dozzen of people to hop on board.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 07:19:50 PM new
I agree with you Rich. That's why I started the Question of the day. I want folks to start to really think about ideas.
It's great to say I want to only pay a nickel for a listing with no FVF but you also have to add up how many nickels it will take to pay for the site?
If we want certain features it will take X per month to maintain and improve the site. At that point we have to ask our membership if they want to pay what it will take or revamp the plan.
The basic focus of the question is whether members would rather pay a higher list fee to get to X rather than a FVF.
So which would you prefer Rich ol boy?
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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pcalton
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posted on March 7, 2001 07:31:40 PM new
I prefer a lower or zero listing fee with the majority of the fee I pay being FVF commissions. That way I can get a lot of my stuff out there at a low investment. With low listing fees, I'm not gambling fees and I pay FVF after I made the sale.
However, I am not sure that is best for the site.
It is likely that a low or zero listing fee might flood a site with listings that don't get bids.
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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dman3
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posted on March 7, 2001 07:39:43 PM new
I think I stated very clearly no Listing fee
Just FVF and a month flat service charge Charge me $19.95 let me run my business Just take FVF on items I sell.
Co-op and myself both have the insentive to work harder.
I have an insentive to get seller and buyers to come in to hold the cost at $19.95.
The co-op as an auction site had incentive to bring in new buyers and members to incress winning bid prices.
I choose not to pay a fee to list an item I would choose to pay for each sucessfull sale I cant pay fees from no sales dont matter if I sell through a co-op or ebay no sale means there is no money for fees.
note I am not saying this auction site should be free since I would be paying the monthly service fees and FVF on my sales.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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dman3
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posted on March 7, 2001 07:56:09 PM new
Pcalton
Im not So sure that just because people pay listing fees it cuts down on junk listings look at yahoo and ebay .
Yahoo Just started chargeing fees its listings dropped by 92% yet it still loaded with junk.
The only thing listing fees did for yahoo is moved millions of auctions in just over 30 days.
many of the seller moved these item to ebay more then likely most of the old yahoo inventory that was posted on yahoo for months that it could sell was sold off on ebay the only way yahoo can regrow is with freash new inventory.
so yahoo chased what it thought was stale old items to ebay where it was sold off .
this is how I see it next thing to come is a second hit to ebay fees so sellers will move all there stuff to another site maybe yahoo till it sells there the only way ebay will regrow is with new Items.
Frankly Im tired of being a nomad on the online auction merry go round listing fees dont mean better items or that there wont be some flood categories with junk there will always be many out there willing to invest there $$$ with out a care trying to make free $$ on junk listing fee or not .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 7, 2001 08:01:56 PM new
Junk auctions can be addressed by organization. If we have bylaws that are enforced then items should be in the right sections or the sellers will not be able to list.
I don't know how many times I've read bidders being angry about having to sift through spam in a category. Spam's fine if it's where it should be.
We could have a whole Spam category with all sorts of Spam Sub-categories.
Jamie
canvid13
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twinsoft
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posted on March 7, 2001 10:12:35 PM new
Jamie, here I pay you a nice compliment, and you tell me to grow up?? Jesus, I am so tired of your "if the co-op fails, it will be because of people like you" rhetoric.
This is not your thread, so please don't tell me what to say or not to say. Go be boss of your own message board. You don't own this one.
As always, you take constructive criticism (close this thread and start another dedicated to questions of the day) as an affront, and attack anyone who expresses an idea that doesn't jive with your own.
You claim you don't want to be a leader, so take your own advice and get out of the way.
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canvid13
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posted on March 8, 2001 03:46:34 AM new
Here's today's question of the day again!
Question of the day: Would you prefer to pay a higher list fee rather than FVF's or vice versa.
Option A: .50 list fees .00 FVF
Option B: .10 list fee 4% FVF
Please choose the one you would prefer even if you wouldn't prefer either.
Post here or at our website.
Thanks,
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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pcalton
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posted on March 8, 2001 05:24:45 AM new
Option B
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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jayadiaz
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posted on March 8, 2001 05:32:13 AM new
Hi,
I know I'm supposed to give simple answer but I'm going to cheat a little.
I would like no listing fee or lowest possible listing fee with a FVF.
Now I think there should be a graduated maintenance fee according to usage;
Say 1oo auctions/mo=??
Up to 500/mo=??
500-1000/mo=
over 1000/mo=
The fact is that someone who puts out thousands of auctions per month uses more resources, space on the site etc. and should shoulder that in some way.
I don't think it would do much to deter people from spamming the site with a bunch of junk though.
Just my penny.
Oh, one more thing unrelated. I get a lot of techie type magazines because of my husbands job and there have been several articles recently cautioning people about buying used equipment from failed companies. A lot of research needs to be done to make that equipment mesh. There are a lot of places where equipment can be leased for business which might be a better way to go for the first few years.
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canvid13
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posted on March 8, 2001 08:23:18 AM new
BTW folks, there's no right or wrong answer. It all depends on what we want in a site as a co-op?
JayDiaz: Actually the amount of auctions doesn't really effect the amount of cost for the site. All it effects is the storage space which isn't by any means the most expensive cost.
There's different types of support, that costs money. And bandwith is mostly used by bidders so the more the better.
We would have to pay for most of our fees whether we had 1k or 100K listings.
So value isn't to be solely equated by listings and especially at the beginning we don't want to discourage folks from listing.
Look at Amazon, they just upped the merchant accounts to 40K listings for $39.95 per month + FVF. Quite the bargain!
It's all up to us folks. We will get what we pay for and for what we build.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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rubylane
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posted on March 8, 2001 08:33:46 AM new
"Actually the amount of auctions doesn't really effect the amount of cost for the site. All it effects is the storage space which isn't by any means the most expensive cost."
The cost is not the price of a disk drive, it is attention.
Jim
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codasaurus
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posted on March 8, 2001 08:50:50 AM new
Canvid,
"Time is ticking and a co-op needs to be built."
Talking never built anything. Several posters have repeatedly pointed out that action must be taken. Someone must make decisions. Say "this is the way we are going". Accept the responsibility that the course set may not bring them to the desired goal. Monitor progress and adjust as necessary.
If you continue to believe that everything needs to be talked out before any action is taken then you will get exactly that. All talk but no action.
Every time you float an idea or a question of the day you are merely inviting everyone to agree or disagree with it. You are directly responsible for the lack of action that you bemoan constantly.
Pee or get off the pot.
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canvid13
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posted on March 8, 2001 01:09:58 PM new
CODE: Actually a lot of action has taken place but if we don't see the support from sellers then it's a pointless action.
Are you ready to help? Volunteer?? It's easy for you to point out work to me but if this is a co-op what about you??
That's a rhetorical you. I'm not trying to get in your face or anything like that. You've written some great posts and had some great ideas.
That being said we need to have a true understanding and get people talking about the realities of the co-op and what we really want.
Every feature costs money. We can either start like a Bidville or we can start with a big bang. Or anywhere in between.
I just don't think that a tiny group should have to do all of the work and then present it to everyone else. That's not a co-op. You are not the co-op's customer.
Well, I don't want to beat the point.
Did you answer the question?? That's a way of helping. Did you attend our Sunday night live chat?? That's another.
We need help to make this work. It's that simple. Nobody is expected to carry the whole load and I don't think anyone will.
Do you want a co-op??
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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codasaurus
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posted on March 8, 2001 03:05:52 PM new
Canvid,
Did I answer the question?
Which question? Whether I want a co-op?
It is a completely bogus question until someone defines what the co-op is.
You keep talking about how the co-op will be whatever it is that the people who build it want it to be.
The people who might build it are sitting about wondering just what it is that they will be committing their precious time, money and hard work to achieve.
You just don't seem to grasp that democracy is a very poor way to build something tangible.
You also don't seem to grasp that continually asking me or others to contribute is fruitless when no one seems to know just what it is that we are contributing to.
Perhaps now you are beginning to understand how difficult it is to get a diverse group of people organized. You want to do it but you aren't willing to pay the price to do it.
The price is to accept the mantle of leadership and to actually lead. You can't lead by consulting a group before each step is taken.
I've given you and others a wealth of my time by crafting thoughtful responses here on the various co-op threads. I'm not interested in leading however and I am not interested in contributing any more of myself than I already have until and unless I know that the co-op is going to be something that serves me well for the effort I put into it.
I've pointed out several times that eBay is a terrific place to sell if you stay away from bells and whistles. I've pointed out the economics involved in your question of the day. I've suggested a simple listing fee based on projected capacity. I've posted here what I would want to see in a co-op as a buyer. I've posted my reservations for a general anything goes auction site. I've suggested that co-ops be organized in niche markets where the critical mass of sellers and thus the buyers could be taken away from eBay with some possibility of success.
I've made no bones about the fact that I am not going to throw more effort into this idea. That you continually challenge me to do more seems to me a cop out on your part. You want a co-op but you don't want to do the work. You want a bunch of other folks to come along and relieve you of this awesome responsibility.
It ain't gonna happen. And so this thread will continue on like a broken record, over and over, until you finally pee or get off the pot.
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canvid13
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posted on March 9, 2001 05:03:35 AM new
Today's QUESTION OF THE DAY!
Should all sellers and bidders be credit card verified??
Jamie
Canvid13
[email protected]
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pcalton
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posted on March 9, 2001 06:03:13 AM new
yes, credit card verified.
plus, in the end of auction email confirmation sent by the site needs to include shipping information for the buyer, mailing address for the seller, contact telephone numbers for the buyer and seller, links for leaving feedback and other information that the seller can preset to go in the email notification to the buyer.
pcalton
Perry Calton
[email protected]
http://www.pcalton.com
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canvid13
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posted on March 9, 2001 09:03:44 AM new
Thanks Perry. I've asked AW to allow a Question of the day thread for the co-op here on Ebay OL.
Spread the word!
Jamie
canvid13
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dman3
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posted on March 9, 2001 04:11:54 PM new
I think yahoo and paypal are proof that makeing buyer verify with creidt card numbers hurts Use of a service more then it helps and I think yahoo is proof that even if buyer verify the dead beats will still go the way of being deadbeats.
I do Agree with the rest of pcaltons anwser.
anwser
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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reamond
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posted on March 9, 2001 04:22:51 PM new
Credit cards are the safest and best way to transact on the internet.
For the buyers which sellers might lose due to no credit card, it is more than made up for by the speed and ease of payment, not to mention ease of record keeping.
Eventhough many are paranoid about credit card numbers being stolen, a card holder can not be held responsible for fraudulent charges.
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