posted on March 12, 2001 10:57:55 AM
It would depend on where you got your Mr. Ed tapes. If you recorded these yourself, off the top of my head I would say you cannot sell them for a profit. You may be able to sell them for the cost of the tapes and mailing under the 'timeshifted viewing' loophole though. To be sure, check the end credits. There should be a name of the copyright owner listed there somewhere. That's the person you need to contact about rights.
Also remember that just because a series may be old, it does not necessarily mean it is in the PD. Columbia House, for example, has purchased the rights to many old series' that they clean up and market under their 're-tv collections'. According to them, you cannot resell any of their original tapes (IMHO, this is a crock) on eBay. Selling copies of any of their stuff would be a violation though.
One of my 'rules' when trading tapes is that I will not copy anything from my collection of commercially released tapes or DVD. For example, I had a person contact me about trading for the pilot episode of "Airwolf". I have this series on MCA commercial release tapes plus the pilot that aired on tv. I told him I would copy the aired version of the pilot but not the MCA release (slightly longer and not rated).
I guess this is my hang-up, but I have too much at risk. This is why I have such a mad on for eBay because they banished me for listing what they thought were "potentially" infringing tapes ("you're guilty, we had your trial, and convicted you - sorry we didn't ask you to participate in your own defense" kind of thing)
I'm the last person in the world who would try to peddle copies
exactly right, that's what we resellers of collectables do for living. I just bought a huge pile of board games from the 60's for 50 cents a piece. Some will go for $100 each, some for just $2-3.
I just couldn't live in a world where at the garage sale I would say 'you know you should put those on ebay', heh.
tim
(who often stops just short of rooting thru trash)
posted on March 12, 2001 11:08:50 AM
Thanks again RB.
I too have a pretty large collection of videos too, but I suspect nothing like yours, so it was just an interesting topic.
I can see where some people go astray tho. There are things we can have that you simply cannot buy, and I guess that tempts people. For example I have every single Monty Python episode inc the German ones.
I wonder what would happen if I put them on ebay. Perhaps the Spanish Inquisition? But NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!
There is a big difference between recording a show to watch at another time and recording a show with the express purpose of reselling it.
Public domain has nothing to do with being on tv 20 odd years ago.
Betweenangels, you should be able to get a refund. Keep copies of all correspondence, send it to safeharbor.
Sending it to safeharbor may or may not be the happiest of outcomes, like RB and Tomwii say, they are extremely arbitrary.
posted on March 12, 2001 11:28:44 AM
RB
How, and I guess where do they sell these VCD's? I don't think I know about those.
I'm sure your usual places you buy DVD's; Video Stores, Amazon etc wouldn't sell these VCD's? (I hope)
Another misconception? and probably off topic... DVD players, at least the ones I've bought, are not like a VCR where you can just hook them up and play.
I sold our first DVD player.... informing in the ad that it would need a stereo receiver etc to work, the guy got it, and negged me, because he thought all he had to do was plug it in and have it work like his VCR.
I am not sure they are making them differently now, our newest one is about 8 months old, but hooked into a stereo receiver, and is compatible, everything is 'compulink'.
Also there were? some DVD's that were out by Warner Bro's that would not play, or really got messed up picture etc on a player, I think some were The Matrix, Wild wild West etc.... because they were made for CD Rom too? I guess they had games on them? I'm sure they don't sell them now, but it had a lot of people upset. [email protected]
posted on March 12, 2001 11:37:26 AM
DVD is a growing format.
Plug and play is the name of the game and the new ones are a lot more user friendly.
soon DVD-r is going to be marching down the pike...a real boon for bootleggers.
posted on March 12, 2001 11:37:30 AM
If you slide to the bottom of this page, or just about any page anywhere on the internet or watch your TV screens close enough ( be it advertising, news, or scheduled programing) you will find something similar!
1. Don't record anything off your TV for the purpose of re-selling someday!
2. If you buy a Video, make yourself a copy and sell the original one you bought!
3. There are companies that make good money by paying for the right to reproduce videos or reproduce TV programing for selling. There is a company in Houston that does quite well by recording anything from news to commercials for you. They charge a handsome fee in addition to the tape BECAUSE they pay for the right to reproduce.
To stay out of trouble, just order the video that is being offered for sale at the end of the program!!!!! You know that little diddy that starts off "if you would like a copy of this program just send $XXXXX to XXXX and ask for program #XXXXX!
It is becomming more and more common and I think we'll see lots more of it in the future!
I MAY HAVE TECHNICALLY JUST BROKE THE COPYRIGHT RULE BY REPRODUCING AW'S STATEMENT HERE WITHOUT THEIR EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION!!!!
Do you think they will ban me??? I sure hope not, I like it here!
posted on March 12, 2001 12:12:36 PM
Capriole-yeah plug and play is right nowadays, but your TV needs an analog signal, unless you have one of the new digital TV's, or a digital to analog converter, or surround sound that has the dig to analog built in.
And all of the above is plug and play, but there is still very few DVD players that have the analog signal coming out of the back. I guess there probably is, but there pricey. Unlike VCRs, they all have an analog signal, and they are all Plug and Play.
posted on March 12, 2001 12:13:57 PM
tim99 ... my very first sale on eBay (way back then when it really was a community) was for an incomplete set of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos". It was missing 1 tape. I bought it at a local pawn shop for $2.00 Canadian figuring I might watch them some day. Sold the set on eBay for $273.00 US. The buyer was extremely pleased with her purchase. I included a big note in the listing that the set was missing one tape but that didn't matter to her.
As I have been trading for a long time, I have 'met' many friends who work for studios and networks, and others who are paid to review new tv episodes. As a result, I have a huge number of studio 'rough cut' and 'preview' tapes in my collection. Many of these are for series that never sold, and many include scenes that were cut before the episode aired. Although only some of these state they cannot be resold, I am not about to part with any of them. They are true collector items.
I also have a few hundred Emmy Consideration tapes that I have acquired in trade from various sources, including Emmy voters. Virtually all of these include warnings on the tape, the sleeve, and even some embedded on the screen that they are not to be resold. These, btw, are the same ones that eBay allows to be sold on their venue ...
Go figure eh!
NearTheSea .. these VCD's, for the most part, are made in Asia where no one really cares about North American copyright law. You can, for example, pick up a VCD copy of just about any movie currently showing today on the big screens. Totally illegal, only fair quality, no extras, and English sub-titled. Why people buy these is a mystery to me considering DVDs are normally released within a few months of a new movie being shown in the theatres.
There are legal VCDs too. Problem is eBay et al don't have a specific category for VCD movies. Sellers list them under DVDs and sometimes "forget" to indicate that it is not a DVD that is being offered.
As to the players, I haven't seen any that cannot be hooked up like a VCR - providing you are OK with the sound of your TV. I like the surroundsound experience so I have my player connected through my home stereo system. I have a 2 year old Toshiba model. Plays all DVDs wonderfully, but will not play VCDs. There is also some inconsistency between players. Some players will just play some disks. There are a number of sites on the net that list these problems.
As to the CD-ROM features. I don't think that should prevent the movie from playing. I have had no problems with any of these.
sulyn1950 ... correct. The tv eps that are being sold on eBay include a similar warning about unauthorized duplication or showing in full or in part yada yada yada, along with the applicable Section of the law that deals with offenders.
I wonder if the eBay bootleggers copy the FBI warning screen on their dubs???
And, they should change that end teaser from "If you would like a copy of this program just send $XXXXX to XXXX and ask for program #XXXXX!" to "If you would like a real nice copy of this program you just recorded, just send $XXXXX to XXXX and ask for program #XXXXX!"
posted on March 12, 2001 12:27:05 PM
RB-those VCD's sound like when people would take their video cameras in a theater and tape the movie and try to sell it, while the movie is at the theater, heard some horror stories on those ack.
Yes we have ours hooked up to surround sound, there is so much hooked up back there, if I have to unhook the whole setup, I know I'll have a nervous breakdown [email protected]
posted on March 12, 2001 12:37:19 PM
RB
I suppose it would be a violation because the express purpose of those tapes is for personal use, not for resale.
On the collectible market though, individually I don't see why they couldn't be sold.
I have a good buddy who is a media writer. He gets a pile of tapes before the Seattle International Film Fest blows into town in May.
If he wanted he could resell them as collectibles.
If, however, he decided to do a bunch of dubs and then sell those on ebay, then that would be violation of copyright.
To be honest I suppose the sale would be a violation, because the express purpose...blah blah blah.
Look under the manual section of the photo electronics section. There are more photocopied manuals than originals of some items.
I don't see ebay nuking those auctions.
posted on March 12, 2001 01:01:47 PM
capriole ... in fact, your friend probably could not sell the original tapes legally! Most of these include some kind of "return to XXX after viewing" instruction on them. In theory, they should all end up in XXX's hands. In reality, I doubt if very many do.
I, for one, am glad they don't
wrt to the photocopied manuals, the problem is that eBay is NOT nuking these and they SHOULD be. eBay makes it far too easy for people to sell illegal stuff, and when they let this happen ever after being advised it's a no-no, they place themselves on the same level as the sellers ... about one filia above pond scum.
Someday Meg and her gang will have to pay for this
posted on March 12, 2001 01:09:17 PM
Here's where my double standard kicks into effect....
Just try to find a Nizo 801 instruction manual in english....without purchasing the camera from an estate?
You buy it from one of the myriad sites on the web that sells manuals for every make model and permutation of camera.
If ebay nukes the auctions, there are a load of sites where I can find my old folding camera's manual.
OTOH, where in the world am I going to find a copy of Raising Arizona? A video distributor.
I know, they all should be nuked, according to the letter of the law, unfortunately in ebayland there are degrees of legality in copyright.
Hmmmm....
posted on March 12, 2001 01:12:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand your problem. If you want a legal copy of "Raising Arizona" (in DVD or VHS), go to Amazon and buy one!
posted on March 12, 2001 01:23:13 PM
No problem, just thinking out loud.
Amazon is a video distributor.
Better example.
If I want a collection of "Bosem Buddies" then I prolly will trawl through ebay's auctions until I find it.
It won't be on amazon or any other retailer's shelves because it's not released. I could contact ABC/NBC/CBS (whoever aired it) and ask them if they plan on releasing it.
But prolly not as they are still making money on it by selling it to comedy network (I don't have cable, so I don't even recall, it's been years since I saw this show on comedy network). Who in turn are able to make money off of it in commercial advertising.
I suppose there is a reason they are adopting a non agressive stance on copyrighted materials, but I am not sure what it is.
posted on March 12, 2001 01:40:41 PM
capriole ... Ah, I understand now!
If you really want a copy of "Bosom Buddies", then you should probably visit one of the tape trading sites. I'm sure there is stuff that airs in you area that someone who can get BB or already has it on tape would like in trade.
If you do search ebay and happen to find copies of this series, and you decide to buy them, watch out. If the seller gets caught (and I am doing my best to make sure they do), you'll lose your tapes too. You may have already noticed a decrease in the number of listings on eBay for series like "The Sopranos" and "The West Wing". This is a result of the battle that I, the MPAA, several other pepole like me, and several copyright owners are waging and will continue to wage with eBay
"But prolly not as they are still making money on it by selling it to comedy network"
And that is exactly why they don't want some sleaze from taping it and selling it on eBay!!
"I suppose there is a reason they are adopting a non agressive stance on copyrighted materials, but I am not sure what it is."
Think about it. eBay gets a cut when the item is listed and more when it is sold. If they really tried to clean up their site by removing the illegal items, Meg could have a problem making her yacht payment next month.
Financially, eBay is better off ignoring people like me who are trying to warn them ... at least until they have to pay the piper for their contribution to this criminal activity ...
posted on March 12, 2001 02:51:37 PM
Again all. If it's too good to be true in this category (and probably in life ) then beware that it most likely to not be!
Be careful. I myself have been stung buying a tape on the net that turned out to be fake.
Also, it's illegal to sell "SCREENERS". These are tapes that we get from our video suppliers to try and get us to by certain titles.
Some folks sell them, but this is illegal.
I just hate it when bootleggers crap on legit video sellers. It can drive overall prices down on a title too. And when a bidder unwittingly gets a bootleg they think we're all selling bootlegs which most of us aren't!
posted on March 12, 2001 04:56:18 PM
According to what I read here on this thread, the govt should shut down every thrift store for selling bootleg movies.
posted on March 12, 2001 05:29:09 PMQuickdraw29-Actually I guess they could if someone really wanted to!
They have all kinds of rules, regs, and laws in place that could probably prevent anyone from selling anything, anywhere.....but how is it ever going to be enforceable????
They have a big can of worms and nobody really wants to get in there and fool with those things!!!!!
posted on March 12, 2001 08:15:25 PM
quickdraw ... maybe you oughta re-read everything here then
I doubt if the thrift stores are selling home made copies of commercial releases. The sales of "previewed" movies, which are NOT bootlegs, is 100% legal.
The sales of Emmy tapes and other promo tapes, which are also NOT bootlegs MAY be illegal ... depending on the material on the tape.
IF the thrift stores you visit ARE selling home made copies of commercially released movies and/or television episodes, then they SHOULD be reported and shut down.
posted on March 12, 2001 10:11:08 PMRB, earlier above you said Columbia House says it's illegal for people to resell their re-tv series. Any thoughts on why not? It seems to me that I should have a right to re-sell anything (legal) that I bought (legally).
I have many of the CH Twilight Zone tapes and buying them off of eBay seems like a great way to fill in the gaps. The only way I know to get them from CH is to subscribe. And furthermore, AFAIK there is no way to request specific tapes. So you just have to receive them one/month and hope your desired tape comes. With over 50 tapes in the series, you could be waiting a while!
posted on March 12, 2001 10:35:24 PM
psst quickdraw...want to know a secret?
You are the govt! (you deserve - de Toqueville)
LOL
BTW the "govt" you mention are the people who own the content. The artists, producers, etc.
I think that resale of an old video at a thriftshop is fine.
I think that the concept that legal departments and corporations that make this product are concerned about is that they are the only ones who sell original copies.
Or are the only ones who make money when the item plays or airs to an audience.
Basically it's bootlegged items that should not run on ebay.
posted on March 12, 2001 11:35:26 PM
I don't know what the movie industry is concerned about. It's like the fake Gucci watch market, the person who buys a fake Gucci is not interested in a real Gucci because they're too expensive. As long as the person buying knows it's a fake I see no problem with it. Clearly a homemade video copy of a movie is not going to deceive one soul or cause the image of the movie company to deteriate. Ok, professional bootleggers, that may be a problem.
Just for the heck of it, I looked at eBay closed auctions, and volumes 1, 3, and 4 of Bosom Buddies were listed. The description said they were released by Paramount Home Video in 1995, and they were in the original cardboard sleeve. Better put Bosom Buddies on your "Favorites" list, and maybe you'll eventually get your collection!
I've seen you post to this site many times against copyright violations. I will not comment on those as your posts speak for themselves, however, I do feel compelled to bring up an argument involving semantics.
You rail endlessly about people who infringe copyright while at many times in the same posts you point people in the direction of so-called "tape trading sites" so that they can get illegal copies of copyrighted works. It seems to me the only difference between buying illegal copies on ebay and getting illegal copies in a tape-for-tape trade is that you disagree with the former and participate in the latter.
You seem to imply in one of your posts in this thread that because tape trading is a grey market (i.e. copyright holders aren't as likely to send you a cease and desist order) it is somehow acceptable.
So, a question for you:
Are you a copyright infringer when you trade tapes or aren't you? And please explain your postion.
Please keep in mind, I'm not asking for a discussion on degrees of copyright infringement (i.e. Joe Blow is a bigger copyright infringer than Jack Sprat because Joe charges money for his bootlegs and Jack trades bootleg for bootleg).
I'm curious where you find justification for what you do while vilifying others for what, in my opinion, is the same thing: Illegal Copyright Infringement.
posted on March 13, 2001 05:02:32 AM
I will try to provide some quick answers now - more later when I get to my other PC.
wbbell ... seems silly, doesn't it! One of the reasons CH is concerned is that many people sign up to their collections, get the 89 cent first volume, then quit. The tape ends up on eBay for 19.99 and CH needlessly invests time and money in paperwork etc. Another reason has to do with competition - some of the eps available on the CH tapes are also commercially released by other companies (Star Trek, for example is released by Columbia House and Paramount). Doesn't matter though ... even when eBay is told directly by CH to end thes auctions, they don't. If I think of it, I will post a copy of the email that was sent to eBay from CH.
sock ... it's complicated! You need to read what is known as the "Sony Decision". Technically, everytime I trade a tape I am in violation. However, as no money changes hands (i.e. no profits being made on someone else's art), and we can "justify" what we provide as tapes for time-shifted viewing, the law leaves us alone. I could list copies of tapes on eBay as long as I ask for the price of the tapes and shipping only. I am not allowed to charge for my time, VCR wear-and-tear, and all of those other things that are considered profit. However, I cannot control the final selling price. When someone comes to me and offers me $750.00 for a complete set of Homicide, for example, I'd love the dough but there is no way I could convince Baltimore Pictures that this only covers my costs. Even the "these tapes are sold on a collector-to-collector basis only ..." BS is meaningless.
posted on March 13, 2001 08:29:09 AM
If you folks want to see a good illustration of the problem, check out teevee's most famous Mob family on Yahooooo. There is one seller there who has several listings for illegal unauthorized copies of the first 2 seasons. When he sells a few sets, he lists them again and again and .... well, I think you get the picture. This guy has already sold enough sets to be able to purchase several GO Video dual decks ... gotta keep that old factory pumping out the boots
Funny thing is this seller is willing to answer all questions about his product except the one that asks "Are these authorized copies?"
I doubt if HBO is losing many bucks on this, but the seller is taking away sales of the legitimate first season eps that have been released on commercial tape and DVD from their authorized distributors. The 2nd season has not been commercially released by HBO ... wonder where this guy's copies are coming from?
Just like eBay, Yahoooo really doesn't want to address this very obvious illegal activity
quickdraw ... "I don't know what the movie industry is concerned about"
They are concerned about loss of revenue, and even through they are huge and impersonal, it's revenue they are entitled to. If every eBay member sold a single bootleg, the net loss to the movie industry would be enormous. You can't ignore it because it may seem insignificant.
"As long as the person buying knows it's a fake I see no problem with it."
I agree, but if you check out some of the feedback, many buyers do not know they are getting fakes. That is the problem that started this discussion!
posted on March 13, 2001 09:09:31 AM
Trading or selling any tape that you copy at home is illegal. Period. Then again so is Jaywalking....
The point is if you want a copy of the TV show Bosom Buddies it's available. A company paid for the priviledge of printing it. And then folks like me sell it!
There are no loopholes. If a copyright exists for any film or tv show then unless you have permission from the copyright holder you are breaking the law.
The rest is up to your own moral standards.
I know it's impossible for Ebay or other sites to police their sites completely but there's still a lot of room for improvement.
Ebay especially seems pretty lax regarding this issue, almost as bad as Yahoo!
As a bidder just remember that if the deal is too good to be true you most likely are getting a bootleg.
